I feel it too. I had half a week of far less contact etc, I felt her chasing and saying she wants to come back. I set out the R demands, feel back to square one now with her giving this same old timeline. I’ve no idea if OM is on the scene and that’s making me doubt everything. And I can’t/won’t trust her that OM isn’t - either it’s a hunch that’s right or she’s broken my trust so much that I just don’t trust at all.
You’re right - actions. She’s not moving back in. So I’ve got nothing from her right?
What next? I’m too impetuous because I’ve been at this crap for too long now and I want closure and results. Patience, I know but it’s all wearing way too thin now.
You have a lot of things working against you right now. She knows your still very attached and easily manipulated. Your impatience is definitely working against you. Until she gets a sense that she may lose you it looks like you will remain in limbo.
We had a long conversation and WW said she would do anything to come home. She gave me all the signs and she has been back a week now. I have been learning to trust. A lot of the problems with her conduct have gone or are significantly reduced. Transparent, sharing location and trying. She is different, treats me different and it's going ok. Through talking and R I feel we've finally got to the bottom of what the real problem has been all along now though: sex and physical intimacy.
Many years ago (before we were engaged) I had doubts about the relationship. I overcame those doubts and proposed and we subsequently got married. What the vocalising of those doubts did to W though was apparently to turn her off sexually and she has been struggling ever since. When the M went through a rough patch last year it tipped her over the edge which led to the A. I believe this to be the case from what else I know and it also explains a lot and reduces my fears substantially of OM which is really helpful to our R. It finally fits.
There could be a lot of psychological reasons for this (eg fear of abandonment because I was seemingly happy but contemplating the future at the time) but it seems we didn't properly deal with that back then and it has caused a rift in our relationship and M. W has mentioned this before but was never talked about properly. W is therefore not wanting to be physical (being true to how she feels), but says she wants to want it more than anything because everything else is perfect. I really believe her and think we've made some honest progress in the last few weeks. Any suggestions as to what to do now? She says she's still attracted, etc but just not interested in P. I've suggested a MC, and ordered MWD's sex starved book for some inspiration.
Sounds like you have been ignoring some of the great advice you have been given here. You say you have been learning to trust but are you verifying. Do you have her passwords and are you verifying? You said you suggested MC when that should have been a mandatory agreement to come back home. IC should have been mandatory too.
Again she seems to be great with the words but actions tell me that right now you are in the friend zone. Now it may take some time to progress in a physical relationship but you will need to see effort on her part.
Have you listen to anything I say about WW's? Just b/c she repeated the things you pounded into her head, does not mean squat, if she hasn't ended all contact with her affair partner. The WW will try to make her H believe he has to trust her. No, he doesn't. She has to prove herself through a long period of transparency, and consistently doing the necessary work to save the M. IMHO, I doubt she has broken contact with OM, and she's gaslighting you. You need to go fishing for evidence. Asking her if she's being deceitful, is not evidence. You can let it ride for a while, then check her phone without her knowledge (since she agreed to transparency). If she has a burner, she'll eventually get careless.
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Transparent, sharing location and trying.
Really? Does she volunteer to show or tell you where she is........or have you looked at her phone activity when she wasn't watching you? Of course, she can find many ways around it, if she isn't seriously trying to make the MR work. volunteering what information she decides to share, isn't worth much.
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Through talking and R I feel we've finally got to the bottom of what the real problem has been all along now though: sex and physical intimacy.
Of course it is! A married woman can't love two men at the same time. She can't even love one, if she doesn't respect him as a man. She lost attraction for you b/c she stopped respecting you. So, is she trying to sleep in separate beds, or is she just rejecting your advances?
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Many years ago (before we were engaged) I had doubts about the relationship. I overcame those doubts and proposed and we subsequently got married. What the vocalising of those doubts did to W though was apparently to turn her off sexually and she has been struggling ever since.
WW's b.s.
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When the M went through a rough patch last year it tipped her over the edge which led to the A. I believe this to be the case from what else I know and it also explains a lot and reduces my fears substantially of OM which is really helpful to our R. It finally fits.
You are listening to her lies, and she wants you to believe her waywardness has nothing to do with the problems in the MR. She wants you to buy this false excuse, so that she doesn't have to engage in sex.
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It finally fits.
No, it doesn't fit. Expressing your doubts about your relationship back in the dating years would not turn her off sexually. Maybe she was never attracted to you, but why did she go through the engagement and the wedding? Why stay M to you? It doesn't fit.
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W is therefore not wanting to be physical (being true to how she feels), but says she wants to want it more than anything because everything else is perfect.
Being true to how she feels is classic WW talk. The fact she is saying everything else is perfect, tells me she is lying to you. Listen, if she had really ended all forms of contact with the OM, she'd be suffering from withdrawals. It usually takes several months just to get through the withdrawals. She can't fall out of love with you, into love with OM, then out of love with him and bounce back into love with you again. I mean, she "can", but it takes sufficient time. If you've been pressing her for sex, like I suspect you have..........you know, to seal the deal? That's what most LBH's want, to assure themselves she's for real. Well, she's not being real with you. I agree that it takes time for a recovering WW to start feeling sexual desire for the H she disrespected, but your WW is feeding you a bucket of b.s. She wanted to come back home, but she doesn't want to cut OM out of her life. If you are wise, you won't share with her what I'm saying here. There are a few things the LBH needs to keep to himself, as a measuring tool to know if his WW is anywhere close to authenticity.
I think you probably over-shared too much DB information with her during all those R talks. Some pushy LBH's tell the WW exactly what emotion and/or response he needs to see from her, in order to reconcile. I'm not talking about his requirements to reconcile (like attending family therapist sessions, who deals with couples healing from an affair). You were checking everything off the list, and that usually means the LBH has described in length what he needs to see in her before taking her back.......like remorse, taking responsibility, apologize, etc. Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope I am.........but I don't think I am.
It's not the end of the road for the M, but you need to hang very close to the board so that you have better balance in what you are really seeing & hearing. Will you keep posting? This can turn around, but it won't happen quickly, and not until she starts being honest.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks LH19 and sandi2. She has offered transparency but I haven't checked yet (I know, stupid I should have but just figured if she was hiding something she'd be clean when she just moved back in anyway). Because I found out by snooping I've tried to not do that. She hasn't moved everything back in yet and went to talk to her mum last night who knows about OM. She came back in floods of tears which made me think she'd chatted with OM over messages and her mum and decided to end it. She mentioned her mum had said "she was doing the right thing". Only thing I can think of that would get her that upset - she couldn't hide how upset she was. I remember Steve85 above saying how much it hurts when your W is mourning the loss of OM. I thought she was doing that last night, yep, hurts. This morning she went out and then said she isn't sure about the M anymore and whether it would be "kinder to let me go". I now think she wants me but doesn't want to lose him rather than the other way round.
She's played it all down so much (and continues to play it all down) but I can't see why she isn't wanting to make the M work unless there is something stopping her. This wasn't obvious at first when she moved back - she seemed different. She's been different again last night/today though, like she's opened up to the idea of leaving OM. I find the whole thing so awful though but don't know if I'm reading everything correctly though, so can't call her out on anything. I go from thinking it's all over with OM and rationalising any fears due to classic betrayed spouse being sensitive to thinking it's still going on and reading the signs differently.
Originally Posted by sandi2
Listen, if she had really ended all forms of contact with the OM, she'd be suffering from withdrawals. It usually takes several months just to get through the withdrawals. She can't fall out of love with you, into love with OM, then out of love with him and bounce back into love with you again.
This. Thank you.
Originally Posted by sandi2
Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope I am.........but I don't think I am.
I know I've been a bad DB'er but not divulged R details other than transparency, no. The problem is her story is unchanging and a big part of me wants to believe her and help her. The other part is angry/hurt and very sceptical and it changes my approach all the time.
Can I ask for your advice? - If she is having doubts should I ask her to move out again until she wants to work at M? She says she is struggling to be completely committed. I don't know whether OM is the cause of this or not conclusively, but if she is having doubts should I tell her to go? - As of last night she has started to show physical interest (despite what she's said!) Either to see what it feels like or because she is trying to figure out what she wants. Should I respond? - She has suggested moving out for a while to "sort her head out". Should I allow this? I've wondered what this would achieve. I've said it's up to her what she does. - She's said she wants me to tell her what to do and she'll do it - time away, a week together with 0 contact with anyone. She said she'll try anything, she just wants to get back on track. I thought this might be a good idea, but I don't want to force distance between her and OM. I need to find out more of what's going on I think. - I believe she is on the turn at giving the M another chance and finding the spark again, but if OM is still in contact that won't happen. Do I just hang tight in the current situation? Do I act affectionate as if I don't suspect what is going on or do I call her out on all this that I think. She will say I'm dreaming it though because I have no proof currently. - How should I act now?
Oh boy. You’re going to ask her to move out for like the 5th time? Your statement about allowing her to move out is concerning. At this point I don’t think you should do anything until her actions indicate she’s invested in the marriage. GAL, detach and work on yourself.
OS, PERSISTENCE. THINK before you act (sometimes for days).
How is she distancing herself from OM? This needs to be very clear and proven through actions.
Me: 34 Stbxw: 30 D:5 D:3 Mini bd: May/June 2019 Married: Aug 2019 BD: 6th Dec 2019 OM Confirmed: Feb 2020 March 2020: I filed for D Waiting for D to be finalized and W to move out end of January 2021
Unfortunately this has ended in the worst possible way I think. W put her location on FindMyFriends but has been suspiciously going over to her mum's for extended periods of time. I drove past today and found her outside the house with OM dropping her off. She said she will send her parents round to pick up her stuff. I'm quite sure it's over. It's NC for now I think and go and see a L to arrange D.
