Affair Fog-LRT 2

[kto626]

I'm still DB'ing but my W and I spoke about doing something at the house with my D. With everyone social distancing, everything closing or already closed, there has been minimal contact with people. So we talked about playing a game or something together, something she agreed to.

I don't know how to read all of this with the current health scare. When I spoke to my IC, he thought it would be beneficial for everyone to do something together. Times have changed and it's looking more and more likely they are going to enforce a lockdown, which means she would move in. But I figured I would shift to DB'ing with her home.

[Mumin]

Why would she have to move back in?

[kto626]

Because they may lockdown and tell everyone they can't leave their homes. Then our D can't go back and forth between us both.

[kto626]

Yesterday, my W came by with my D and they stayed for an hour or two while we all hung out in the backyard. I didn't talk about us, the future, the OM, or anything like that. Being around each other is new to me while DB'ing so I'm not sure how to do it. I just focused on logistics and the craziness with the Corona stuff.

My W is the one who reached out to me saying she heard they are requiring everyone to stay home sometime this weekend, bought a bunch of groceries, and brought them over. She said she will have to move in if that happens. I'm trying not to read into it but how can I not? She can't see the OM because bars are closed and she is a fanatic about social distancing...I guess she could still see him but I really don't think she is.

If she moves in, I need to treat her like a roommate, right? Be kind, but not loving, supportive, but not overly helpful? She still hasn't processed any of the A with me but somehow I feel like this is a step in the right direction. Trying to DB in this crazy health scare isn't anything anyone has done before. I can't even file divorce papers if I wanted to...the courts are closed. I swear things happen for a reason and it's lining up that my W has to move in, can't see the OM, and forced to be a family. Am I wrong?

She's coming back today with my daughter to hangout. Social distancing has made it impossible to hangout with others, easily and we agreed we are in the same social bubble.

[sandi2]

Hi KTO,

Are you aware that your WW controls this relationship? She is in an affair, and it appears that all you want is to have her back home again.......and maybe you're trying to convince yourself that she's not seeing the OM. The pitiful thing is that you know if she isn't seeing OM, it's due to the health crisis. So, yes, she is very much in control. All WW's are in control of the MR, until the LBH decides he is going to change the dynamics, and will not go back to how things use to be. The other posters have been giving you good advice, but you can't grasp it b/c you are too worried that you won't get her back.

I want you to start thinking differently, b/c you are waaaaaay too eager to take her back, and I don't think you really understand what you'll be getting, should she decide to stay. If that's the case, then you need to do a lot of work on your self respect.

Yesterday, my W came by with my D and they stayed for an hour or two while we all hung out in the backyard. I didn't talk about us, the future, the OM, or anything like that. Being around each other is new to me while DB'ing so I'm not sure how to do it. I just focused on logistics and the craziness with the Corona stuff.

My W is the one who reached out to me saying she heard they are requiring everyone to stay home sometime this weekend, bought a bunch of groceries, and brought them over. She said she will have to move in if that happens.

Here's an example of what I mean about changing how you think. IMHO, she didn't reach out to you. (At lease, I'm not seeing it.) She told you what she'd do. Did she ask how you felt about her moving back? Were any conditions discussed?

I'm not suggesting you throw her out during a health crisis, but I just want you to start seeing with better vision.

If she moves in, I need to treat her like a roommate, right? Be kind, but not loving, supportive, but not overly helpful?

Kind? Supportive? Okay, but knowing how nice-guys are, those lines are going to become quite blurry for you. How about......civil? Actually, I prefer a different analogy than the roommate. I think you need to picture her as being an old lady who owes you for room/board. A lying, cheating, old lady.

She still hasn't processed any of the A with me but somehow I feel like this is a step in the right direction.

Well no.......b/c she doesn't see this as reconciliation. Did you think it was? ((hugs))

KTO, many LBH's are so focused on their WW just physically moving back home, that they don't stop to consider she hasn't changed a thing except her address. She's still wayward.

Trying to DB in this crazy health scare isn't anything anyone has done before.

Maybe not, but there is nothing new under the sun. In other words, you wouldn't be the first H to deal with a WW under his own roof.

I swear things happen for a reason and it's lining up that my W has to move in, can't see the OM, and forced to be a family. Am I wrong?

Why would you even want a woman who has to be forced into being a family? Something is terribly wrong with this picture. Please don't sell yourself this idea that once she's back under your roof, everything will ease back to normal. I'm not saying your M can't be saved. I'm just saying it requires much more than spending part of weekend together.

She's coming back today with my daughter to hangout. Social distancing has made it impossible to hangout with others, easily and we agreed we are in the same social bubble.

Look at your quote ^^^^ through different eyes. What does it say?

[kto626]

Sandi, I agree with everything you said. We did discuss her moving in if there is a lockdown and agreed there would be boundaries (not sleeping in same room, not pretending things were back to normal, taking shifts taking care of my daughter as we are both working from home, etc). Honestly, I don't know what else to do.

We have been living apart for two months and my IC said working on a marriage while separated is very hard. Getting her in the house will allow us to begin to work. Yes, I need to know she is done with the A, but do I make that a requirement if we lock down and can't go anywhere? Trying to work while taking care of my daughter will be impossible. It could go on for weeks.

It is possible we don't lockdown, in which case she won't move in. I'm not going to pretend like it's back to normal if she moves in but I'm not sure what else I can do??? Old lady, roommate, whatever I want to call her. She just don't be my W. I can't GAL bc everything is closed, I can't go to the gym...closed, I can't see friends...social distancing. So what else can I do? Keep her away from her D for weeks? I don't know if I can personally do it,

I need more self respect but other than going to IC (which is now canceled), GAL'ing with friends (also stopped), I don't know how to improve that sitting at home with a 3 year old.

But everything you said is right. I'm just lost.

[sandi2]

Sandi, I agree with everything you said. We did discuss her moving in if there is a lockdown and agreed there would be boundaries (not sleeping in same room, not pretending things were back to normal, taking shifts taking care of my daughter as we are both working from home, etc). Honestly, I don't know what else to do.

Well, I gather this happened before you had time to really understand what you would need to do. That's okay, we will try to help as you go. One thing you need to keep in the back of your mind is that you can't discuss your DB plan of action with your W right now. By plan of action, I mean the action that you will take to change the relationship dynamics. No matter what was said when she announced she would stay there during lockdown, she is not rooting for the MR. Therefore, you will have to see her in a detached view, the same way you view a neighbor or co-worker. When you interact with her, you treat her with the same somewhat polite/friendly, but unemotional, detached mannerism and verbal interaction that you show when conducting a purchase transaction with a check-out clerk. Know what I mean? The minute your emotions get pull in, is the minute the situation has control over you and the relationship. Don't misunderstand and think I am saying you will never be able to express emotions again, but I'm talking about now, while you're dealing with a WW. You will need to continue practicing this emotional detachment as long as she is conducting herself like a WW. Having a child means there will be a certain amount of verbal interaction concerning her, and that is fine.

So, boundaries are designed to protect yourself. Imagine drawing a circle around yourself, and nothing gets inside that circle without consequences. Boundaries are based on your values, integrity, self respect, religion, morals, etc. You cannot control the other person, just yourself. If the other person does not respect your boundaries, you should react/respond with some type of action that shows you will not tolerate their treatment. Don't get crazy, just be thinking about your self respect and things you won't tolerate from your W, or anyone else for that matter. I don't suggest having a conversation with her about your personal boundaries right now while you are digesting so much information. IMHO, the things you and your W set up, sound more like house rules for the time she stays there. That's fine, nothing wrong with house rules, if they are followed.

Another point to always remember when setting a boundary, is to be prepared to backup your word. For example, if you say you will not stay in an open MR........then be prepared for her to call your bluff. Don't ever set a boundary, thinking it will control her actions. In fact, she always has a choice to honor your boundaries or disrespect them. If she disrespects them, then the next move is up to you. Boundaries are not ultimatums. Look at the link on boundaries, and I think you'll see what I'm trying to say.

We have been living apart for two months and my IC said working on a marriage while separated is very hard. Getting her in the house will allow us to begin to work. Yes, I need to know she is done with the A, but do I make that a requirement if we lock down and can't go anywhere? Trying to work while taking care of my daughter will be impossible. It could go on for weeks.

I mean no disrespect to your IC, but this is not necessarily true when it is a wayward W case. The basis of waywardness is resentment, disrespect and rebellion. She has there in her heart/mind, along with other unattractive traits like selfishness and a sense of entitlement, etc. She lies, denies, betrays, manipulates, etc., etc. The WW usually has a hidden agenda when she leaves her H. If you know there is OM, then it may not be very hidden, but most WW's try to make their reasons sound "justified". It is not a piece of cake living under the same roof with a woman who doesn't respect you as a man..........but that is where you have to start your work. Before you can show great strides in being a H, you have to get her respect for you as a man. Do you follow what I'm saying? A wife cannot feel true desire for a H she doesn't respect, b/c that's how she is wired.

What I'm about to say doesn't mean there is a set pattern in what type of man she marries, however, it is somewhat staggering the amount of "nice-guys" that show up here as the LBH of a WW. IMHO, there is a reason, and it's all linked to her level of disrespect and how much he has allowed her to treat him like cr@p. She had a wayward mindset before the affair. Therefore, it's not all about the affair/OM. This affair may stop, but and she may move to the next one. It's true that her affair must end before there is a chance to save the M, but ending an affair doesn't guarantee success. Make sense? And, I rather doubt it will be a huge success, unless you decide to make changes. I don't mean that you start doing the housework, etc. It has nothing to do with the chores, and everything to do with how you command (not demand) respect.

Yes, I need to know she is done with the A, but do I make that a requirement if we lock down and can't go anywhere? Trying to work while taking care of my daughter will be impossible. It could go on for weeks.

Well, unfortunately it appears that an agreement has already been made for her to stay during lockdown. Once we get clearance that it's safe to go out again, then you might decide to make some changes in your approach. For now, my advice is to be good to your child and yourself, first. Don't fret over your WW, her feelings, what she's thinking or her decisions. She has already told you enough to know she's not there to work on the MR, so don't show any sign that you might even be interested. I'm telling you.........the H has to pull back from showing interest in her. Most nice guy LBH's are so concerned he will lose her if he doesn't kiss her rear,.......but the opposite is true. That's why I said not to fret over every little thing during lockdown.

It is possible we don't lockdown, in which case she won't move in. I'm not going to pretend like it's back to normal if she moves in but I'm not sure what else I can do???

Maybe I'm not understanding you, but you sound as if you don't have choices. Are you saying you don't know any other way to behave around her other than act as if everything has returned to normal? Man, I hope that's not what you mean. Perhaps you mean you don't know how to turn things in the direction they need to go. If so, don't worry about it right now. First, you have to learn before you can steer anything in the right direction. That's what you're doing now, hopefully. You can't turn it around in one day, no matter how great you are, b/c once she ends her affair, she'll have massive work ahead of her.

I can't GAL bc everything is closed, I can't go to the gym...closed, I can't see friends...social distancing. So what else can I do? Keep her away from her D for weeks?

Seriously? Take advantage of the down time you have to read. I would think you have enough DB stuff to read to keep you plenty busy for several nights, maybe weeks. Have you read the links about WW's? It may not be the most "fun" stuff, but it will keep you busy reading. You don't have to socialize in order to GAL. It's anything you enjoy doing (and don't say hang out with your WW). Why do you have to go to a gym? Are there no kind of exercise you can do that doesn't require equipment? Crank up the music and get after it. Play with your little girl.

Lock down is not exactly "roughing it". This is a problem, mainly, b/c you aren't thinking in the right frame of mind yet.

I have no idea what you mean by asking if you should keep your WW away from your D.

I need more self respect but other than going to IC (which is now canceled), GAL'ing with friends (also stopped), I don't know how to improve that sitting at home with a 3 year old.

What does needing more self respect have to do with staying home with a three year old? I know you feel lost and overwhelmed, but don't give up. I want to see you change into the man you can be. That needs to come first. Work on the man, and the other will start to work itself out.

[Mumin]

Ur getting AWESOME advice from Sandi here KT.
Read the "newcomer with WW threads"! They help a lot with mindset.

Can you please explain WHY living arrangements would have to change because of a lockdown?
My understanding is that when W has your D they are currently living somewhere else?
Why cant W keep living at other place?
Why wouldnt you be able to "switch" during a lockdown?
Are they going to force every single separated/divorced parents to not switch for several weeks?

Forced to be a family? Do you ACTUALLY think of that in a positive manner?

My biggest learning with my WW.
IF you stand your ground without being rude she will respect you. She knows what shes done.
Three weeks ago I was VERY scared to throw W out of MBR. Afraid of a confilct/fight.
Just stood my ground. Said I am sleeping in my bed, and now she has moved out to our cabin the days she is here.
No fight.

[kto626]

What if this is her reconciliation? What if she did stop seeing the OM? Her friends have a major influence on her and they all are calling her on her cra@p. I don't know until she says it to be but I've near bed "believe nothing that she says and half of what she does."

Her behaviors lately show me she wants back in. I don't know her motives but are you telling me to not try to find out her intentions? Knowing how guarded and stubborn W is, I feel like this is her way back in. Only now to I require she goes to IC, owns her cr@p, and work on herself.

I will continue to DB but I was only cordial today.

Mumin, the lockdown I've heard is that no one leaves their home unless it's the doctors, grocery store, or pharmacy.

I really appreciate Sandi, Mumin, and everyone else who has offered me advice. I'm extremely thankful for this site.

[kto626]

My DR book arrived today. And as Sandi said, I've got lots of time for reading!