Searching for calm with shelter-in-place roommate

[Kindly]

Hiya Cardinal!

By no less than 24 hours after the spewing, with what I’ve learned here, I was feeling much better and stronger. Emotions do change. His words lost much of their power over me. And as many of you pointed out, next time I can (and I will) just walk away. No point in me sticking around so he can yell.

Great stuff Cardinal...it’s hard to change but we are slowly learning and succeeding at what we need to do for self preservation. Way to go!

That said, what lingers: how much pain he must be pushing away, to lash out in the ugly way he did, someone who has always been nothing but generous and unconcerned about money, who earlier this week was telling me I’d made the best bread ever, was offering me tea, etc etc. I don’t believe he goes around hating me all of the time, that he always thinks it’s awful and unfair that I live here. I think he is not happy with himself, and the pressure comes and goes, and he explodes and then leans into drinking and fantasy friend life.

I feel this exact same way and I do think you are correct. I remember early on one of the veterans talking about the pressure that builds up in them and I believe this is when we get “monstered” or when they crank up the running behaviour again. I see it and def live it....

And I arrive at: How can he ever think what he’s done is forgiveable? How do MLCers who get so far from themselves work their way out of this tunnel and then think they can reconnect after all the drama? It’s more obvious than ever that I didn’t break him and can’t fix him. He has a lot of anger and hurt to work through. I have been neutral toward him, not hateful, since. That feels like all I can do. That and make another fabulous loaf of bread.

I struggle with this too Cardinal especially when the only answer is to leave him be...let him sort himself out. I don’t see H doing that because he never has looked inward and wouldn’t know where to start. I hope I’m wrong for his sake. But the advice here is spot on and we’ve seen examples of what happens when we get “too close” again. The person they are putting all of the blame onto will have an impossible time making them see reason....I think anyway, especially while MLC has its claws in them.

Fabulous loaf of bread, brownies and some beverages on my deck with Cardinal while our husbands’ vape....it makes me smile every time I picture it!
Lol!

[cardinal]

DnJ and may, thank you for sharing your thoughts on the MLCer's journey toward (or, in some cases, away from!) self-forgiveness and, maybe, seeking to make amends with others. DnJ, you talk about what may lead some to reconnecting with people in their lives further down the road, and may, what you wrote really seemed to capture where (I imagine) H is right now in a nutshell:

I imagine him having dug this deep, deep hole and at some points when he has flashes of normalcy he looks at the walls around him and the light so far up there and simply can't imagine how he can get out. And climbing out would also entail truly facing up to his behaviors and how they've affected you. So he pretends he doesn't want out of the hole, even to himself, and keeps digging down because maybe eventually he'll come out on the other side.

I've been having trouble finding patience and peace this week. Well, more like sustaining it. I can find it, but after that burst of anger from H last week, I find myself again wishing I could have the house to myself and not have to come into contact with his anger and unhappiness, whether directly or indirectly (i.e. his spewing at me or grumbling at the reality shows he's now started watching nonstop). He is not, at this moment, choosing self-reflection or peace, and I get that he can't—he's in that hole he's dug/digging, he's running, he's a teen, emotions bubble up and get shoved down, projected onto me, etc. As much as I can tap into focusing on what I'm doing and what I'm grateful for, there's now this undercurrent in the house—that he said, basically, I don't deserve to be here, and that he does. I don't believe that, but knowing he believes feels that has propelled me to another level of acceptance that he is very different from the person I knew, has a long way to go, and that, truly, I can't reach him in the hole! I would rather not be around him while he digs and digs through the foundation of our tiny 900 square-foot house.

It helped me see that a similar dynamic was at play in many of our past arguments, where his anger would surprise me, and he would try to blame it on me, and I would walk away thinking I caused it. I'm sure I sometimes did not help that anger dissipate in the moment, but now I think I understand that it came from all kinds of places, and I was the only one he could allow himself to be angry around. I didn't cause it--he didn't take ownership of it, didn't try to work through it or understand it, and that pattern is repeating, only now I am to blame for pretty much everything, according to him. Underneath all his bluster is hurt, I think, for the SSM, that is only coming out as anger now, and then whatever else he's been bottling up for a lifetime of trying to make other people happy at his own expense.

So part of this acceptance is also believing there's no M to save currently. I see how much work he needs to do to find peace and happiness within himself, and until he can grow and heal, it would be impossible to have a relationship or friendship. So where does this leave me? Still wanting him to own his decisions, not wanting to help him by choosing D myself or by magically disappearing from the house and his life. I do deserve to be here too. I know it's not easy, the path he has, actually acting on these decisions he's made. But it's draining to imagine living in such close quarters with him for who knows how long.

In the aftermath of last week, I am also realizing I don't know when I need to say or do something to stand up for myself and when I should let things go. When am I walking on eggshells vs. choosing to let something go for my own peace? Telling H I was uncomfortable with someone in the house last week let him know a button he can push. He probably wouldn't have repeated it--why would you want to bring your friends home when your mom is around? So should I have said nothing? At the same time, it's clear he doesn't expect me to ever push back or set a boundary in his house—he thinks he has all the power here.

I guess dig deeper for patience? Hopefully he will be back in the office at some point, and I'll be back at work, and we'll both have a little space again.

Made my weekly loaf of bread. I do enjoy having time enough at home to devote to a full day of dough activity. Folding, resting, shaping. The seeds I started inside are a foot tall now. I spend most of my time in the yard when it's not too hot. I discovered several baby praying mantises in the flower bed in miniature praying form.

Happy Mother's day to all you mothers and caregivers to humans and animals!

[DnJ]

Hello cardinal

You ask a good question of when do I stand up for myself and when do I let it go.

Last week’s telling him that you don’t want other people in the house was the right thing to do.

A kind of guide is am I being treated like a doormat; being stepped on? If so, stand up. It’s ok to stand up against disrespectful behaviour.

Boundaries are for that which you need protection from. Protection for your sanity and emotional wellbeing.

Things that can fit into the “don’t sweat the small stuff” category, let those go for your peace.

Digging for patience and giving yourself 24 hours to consider and reconsider your actions will lead you in the right direction. Although, at times, those luxuries can’t be implemented.

I don't believe that, but knowing he believes feels that...

Nice! Good job on being accurate.

You sound well and grounded. Yep, H is in a hole and you can’t lift him out. Pretty astute of you to realize he doesn’t want that help anyways. You’ve got to let him dig, run, dig, and run some more. Hopefully he gets tired, pauses, and looks around a bit.

Fresh baked bread. mmmmmmmm. Boy I bet your house smells great!

DnJ

[cardinal]

Thanks, DnJ. This is helpful. I think I get confused sometimes because I have no control over his actions—in this case, I was being disrespected and stepped on—I feel that a lot from him, because I know he has the attitude that this is his house and he never expects me to speak up about anything. He wants to feel in control. So a boundary would be leaving the room if he yells. That’s about protecting me, not controlling him. But I can’t control whether he brings people into the house... I did feel it necessary to speak up and say it made me uncomfortable. I guess I’m thinking about what action I could take for myself in that case—maybe sometimes just refusing to keep my feelings quiet as I am being stepped on, and sharing them calmly, is enough?

I feel I’m getting stuck in my loop of anger today and having to remind myself I’m not crazy. H talked to his mom on the phone and it was a regular old convo: work complaints, TV, chit chat, Happy Mother’s Day! All cheer from him. At the end she must have asked if I was there, because he said I’d been outside but had come in. I know they don’t talk about “real” stuff, but it bothers me that she has no idea what the actual situation is here, or how much anger he’s showing me. To her, he can be the usual happy son who just decided he didn’t want to be married anymore but is letting me live here and treating me with kindness. That’s the way he sounds on the phone with her. It makes me feel like I imagine his anger, his unkind treatment, the reality that he is not treating me as a friend. He is not treating me like a human being sometimes, is what my IC said. And then I get angry at him again, for feeling like he can blame and project whatever anger or shame he needs to on me, so that he can continue to be his happy, sensitive self with his mom, and his happy, fun self with his friends.

I know that I should trust my own experience, but it is so hard when everything he projects negates it. I read more about depression and anger in men, and try to have compassion for what he might be growing (typo—should be “going,” but I sure hope he’ll be growing some point!) through, try to remind myself in this way it’s not about me even though he is trying as hard as he can to make it about me. And then I hear him talk to his mom or his friends and I just doubt it all—that he’s depressed, in crisis, that he’s right and I’m actually the one who caused him to get to this point. Such strong FEELINGS and not beliefs, but I have to fight really hard to not let them become beliefs, and sometimes that is so exhausting. I get worn down by him. I doubt my beliefs.

I thought about texting MIL Happy Mother’s Day, but I just can’t. I really just want to say—what do you think is going in here? Does this arrangement not seem weird to you?

Thanks for letting me vent here. I need to go work in the garden and try to refocus on something else.

[wooba]

did your state impose restrictions about socializing? maybe you can call the police? that sounds a bit extreme, but if my health was in danger.....I'd consider it. I would recommend taking a picture/journal too when he has his friends over for evidence (and keep a record of all the crazy things he's said to you and behaviors that are out of line).

cardinal, you are not crazy. I know everything must be so hard for you because you are the only one that's experiencing this side of him. I think it's true for most LBSes, outsiders see no difference in our R, but we know what kind of alien our spouses have become.

I mailed my MIL a bouquet of flowers for Mother's Day, and I called and facetimed them with the kids. H went to visit her by himself, and he came up with a believable excuse for me and the kids to not be there with him. Yup, my H does not want to tell his parents about us. He said his mother will go crazy. And for me, I don't need my MIL knowing to validate what I'm going through. whether she knows or not makes little difference to me right now.

I think it goes back to the whole control thing. I think maybe your H has so little in his control right now in his life, he's just holding on to whatever he can. He's still in control of his outward image to his friends and family.

You don't have to maintain any relationship (such as with MIL) if you just can't bring yourself to do it right now. That's me also. I'm doing the bare minimum. Personally I feel bad for my inlaws because they don't even know why they're not seeing me and their grandchildren that much in the last few months (other than because of covid). I know my MIL is not happy about it, but I just can't put her feelings first right now. Ultimately she is H's mother, and I will leave that to him.

Lastly, maybe you should just walk away to another room when your H is on the phone so you can avoid hearing his conversations entirely. Maybe that will help with your sanity?;) stay strong!

[cardinal]

Thanks, wooba, for your validation here. It does help every time someone says I'm not crazy. I wish I didn't still need this validation sometimes, but I do, and I always appreciate it. His mother is states away and has no idea how his behavior has changed toward me and with his new friends. Even some of the coworker friends he's talking to on the phone now who I'd met before all this--well, I don't know what they imagine, but he sounds perfectly normal when he talks to them. He's said numerous things to them in the last week that paint him as this sensitive, in-touch-with-his-feelings guy. This is the guy he thinks he is--this is the guy I used to think he was in our early M, before I realized over time he doesn't know how to process feelings. He practically brags about crying easily, which he's always done ("not like other guys!"), another time says he is incapable of worry, he doesn't worry (it used to be that he's incapable of being unhappy, nothing makes him unhappy!)--stuff like this just makes me want to roll my eyes now. It's like he can have feelings if they're convenient for him and positive, but otherwise he can't understand them or communicate them since... he never communicated to me how he was feeling about the M. The more true advertisement seems to be that he will 110% take care of your feelings at the expense of his own until one day he wakes up with a lot of resentment, and decides to blame it on you.

There is nowhere in the house I can go to not hear him! I went outside once, and I could still hear him, which is partly a function of how small the house is and how loud is voice can be. Sometimes I go for a walk. Usually it's peaceful outside, which I love.

I think it goes back to the whole control thing. I think maybe your H has so little in his control right now in his life, he's just holding on to whatever he can. He's still in control of his outward image to his friends and family.

This makes sense, wooba. I think it is probably true--and it's also why he can't/doesn't entertain the thought of moving out (and maybe why he hasn't started the D process yet?). Did I already say this? He really doesn't like change. So I think he wants his life to go on as it is, plus newfound freedom and happiness and minus me. Like I just am gone one day when he comes home, but everything else is the same. I don't think it's realistic to leave your M suddenly and expect the other person to be the only one affected, but that seems to be where he is. (It seems logical to most people I talk to that if you want to leave, you are the one to leave.)

I'd like to give him a little dose of reality, but I guess I'll just have to trust he'll have to meet reality at some point. If I don't want to file and can't force him to move out, I think the only other reality I can give him is what he has said twice in the last eight months, both after/in his outbursts: he doesn't want me to think about him or care about him. I'm not to be his friend. It's not my job anymore.

Does he say this because he feels more guilt when I care, when he has been able to turn off any empathy for me? I assume I only remind him of the worst in himself and as he saw our M right now, so he's had to push me as far away as he can. Keep in mind this is a guy who had always remained friends with his exes in HS/college--he was such a sensitive, nice guy! His parents D when he was so young he says he doesn't remember it, and since I've known them they've been friends and have cared for each other--he's had the model of them being D but friends his whole life.

Anyway, so I had already cut back on small talk in January, but would still joke with him when he was in a good mood. I haven't had much interest since his last outburst. I've felt like... if he doesn't think of me as an equal, I have no interest in conversing with him. One thing this time of stay-at-home has done is open my eyes to how different he really is, and how he is not someone who would be able to be in an M or even R right now. He is not someone who would do the work to be with me, to deserve someone who is willing to work in a long-term R. He may seem like a catch to someone who doesn't know what's going on, but I know he has much work to do within himself.

Wooba, I loved to read your brief, disinterested responses to your H in one of your lasts posts. I feel like I'm more disinterested in H than I've ever been. I've pretty much stopped talking to him at all, and if he does say something to me, I keep my response polite but short. I want to keep your brief responses in mind should he every bring up financial stuff or anything else again.

When he is gone now (even when I doubt he's practicing social distancing), I'm just happy to have the house to myself. To have the outer environment reflect my inner peace. I think about how I'll feel relief in some future time when we aren't living together anymore... but I also know I'll feel sad at that point, because I'll still have to grieve over that loss, and over what was. I guess it's good to realize now I won't just immediately feel happy and relieved 100% of the time.

I have thoughts inspired by other threads I want to share, but this is already long, so I think I'll wait. I hope everyone is having a good weekend!

[Kindly]

It's like he can have feelings if they're convenient for him and positive, but otherwise he can't understand them or communicate them since... he never communicated to me how he was feeling about the M. The more true advertisement seems to be that he will 110% take care of your feelings at the expense of his own until one day he wakes up with a lot of resentment, and decides to blame it on you.

Hi Cardinal, Thank you for your hugs and comments on my page. It stinks to know that other people are suffering but it is definitely a comfort to know we have virtual friends and a place to come that promotes kindness and most of all understanding...both when we are feeling weak or strong.
Even though I (we) don’t feel at times we are strong, we are! To have already come this far and taken the time to realize that something wasn’t right instead of just throwing our hands up and making a bad situation worse. Even if it continues to go down the path we don’t want at least we’ll know we tried our best.
I truly emphasize with your above statement. That is EXACLY how I too feel. And how were we to read minds to know there was a ticking time bomb waiting to go off? For all the closeness all the great times this awful shift is so difficult to digest.
I also find your comment about H not being someone to “do the work”... it’s funny how they walk out on years of a strong relationship in need of some tlc but fully feel they can put the “work” into something new. I don’t get it.

Thinking of you Cardinal and hope you’re doing alright (((Cardinal)))

K.

[wooba]

I'm sorry to hear that you can't escape from his noises in the house. I guess it makes the time when he's actually gone that much more peaceful and quiet.

What your H said is actually what you should aim for. He is asking you to detach! His intentions do not matter, who knows what these WASes are thinking anyway? The brief & disinterested responses are totally counter-intuitive because we are trained to be caretakers and fixers. But just as you were trained to do the things you used to do before, you can train yourself with using these responses, and eventually it will become easier. It's actually pretty difficult for me because I tend to normally be upbeat and positive anyway, but when H shows up I don't want to give off the vibe like I wanna hang out and chat so I have to put my game face on (which is like a calmer version of PMS lol). Thank goodness he usually gets it and will not hang around much.

[may22]

Cardinal, I was wondering something. Whenever I read your posts (and this may be totally wrong, so please forgive me if I'm misinterpreting) I get the feeling that you are making yourself small, kind of, for him. You are always accommodating, kind, quiet. He plays his records loudly and has loud conversations late into the night and you don't complain. He goes as far as to invite someone over into your home during this pandemic and when you have the temerity to simply say it made you feel uncomfortable, he goes ballistic.

I don't like thinking of you like this, because I don't get the sense that is who you are. It seems like he's totally taking advantage of you. And I may be totally misreading what is happening. But it feels to me, a little, like you are bending, and shifting, and accommodating him and his crazy MLC and maybe you are packing yourself into a little corner of your house, physically or otherwise. The thing about your IC saying he isn't treating you like a human being really hit me hard.

If you think there is any truth to this-- and there may not be-- is there a way for you to make yourself big, again? Play your own music and don't apologize for it? I wouldn't get headphones, I'd get one of those little bluetooth speakers if you don't have one already and just play music wherever you are loud enough to drown out his chatting. Drink all the milk or eat all the ice cream or whatever and don't worry about replacing it for him, only if you want to. Leave your stuff around the house and don't put it away (again, unless you're doing it for you, not because you are worried what he might think). Buy something new for the house, even just like new throw pillows or something, and make it yours. Be YOU without any worries of what he'll think or how he'll feel or what he'll do. I'm not saying be a jerk, or be like him. Just don't be afraid to be yourself and to not think about him at all for awhile, if you can.

(((CARDINAL))) I haven't baked this week, but thinking of making pasta again soon. I still want to try that cinnamon roll recipe now that I have yeast again!

[Gerda]

May22 and Cardinal -- I did this too. For six years. Then he filed and I kept doing it. He wouldn't move out. I finally had to pay him to move out. When I started standing up for myself, the divorce got worse. I made myself small in court too, trying to please the judge who did not understand what was going on and believed his lies about money.

Now I had to fire my L, he was awful anyway, but I am out of money. And now I can be big. I don't care anymore what the judge thinks. She hated me when I was small, now she can hate me when I am big, but at least my voice will be heard.

I don't think you should look for ways to be big to show him anything, but I just want to chime in that it won't work to be small. For the faith folks -- That does work with John the Baptist because the goal is to make something great greater. If you are small in the face of your H's wrongs, you will only make the wrong greater.

It won't work either to be bigger to show him anything, but if there is a way for you to find yourself and do what you want and block him out and not lose who you are, do it. I am not sure it's possible to know why you are doing anything while the MLC lives with you. I couldn't. But my H was living in our living room so if your house is big enough to live separately in your house, maybe you can figure it out better than I could.

He won't see you as you during MLC, no matter how small or big you are. Only do things for you, to find yourself again.

With love from Gerda.