I’m continuing down the path toward detachment. It is a slow journey with a lot of hurdles and back slipping, but it continues. I remember reading on another thread one poster commenting that he feels a lot of LBWs wear their lack of detachment like a badge of honor. I wanted to clarify that, at least for me personally, that could not be further from the truth. For me, announcing that I am not fully detached is being honest and admitting to my failures and struggles. It’s very important to me to share honestly and transparently here, otherwise what’s the point. In no way am I proud of the fact that I’m still emotionally attached to a man who has dragged me and our child through he11. Haha.
There have continued to be ups and downs and all kinds of...who even knows. The roller coaster continues. I have gotten SO much better at not letting his roller coaster drag me along. I have finally found a certain degree of equilibrium in terms of my manner towards him when we are together. I found that once I reached the point where I truly no longer want him to know my feelings or where I am emotionally, it became much easier. My feelings feel private now and I keep them close when it comes to H. That took time. And now that I’ve been in this place for an extended amount of time, now of course he’s trying to find out more.
This is where I’m looking for some advice. The last few times he’s been here to pick up/drop off D4, I’ve steered clear of him, been out as much as I can, and I’ve been pretty reserved. Not down or sad, just neutral and less talkative than I typically tend to be. He has been asking me if I’m ok a lot, and I always just smile and say “yup!” I do this whether I’m “ok” or not, and unfortunately I have no poker face. My whole life, no matter how hard I try to hide it, my feelings seem to be etched on my face. It’s inconvenient at best.
Anyway, I have been under extreme levels of stress lately for a variety of reasons, and I was already fragile yesterday. H texted to ask if D4 could spend the night at his place (yes this was the first time. Aside from the weekend he took her out of time she has always come home to sleep) I didn’t WANT to say yes, but I knew in my gut it was the right thing to do, so I said yes. I have a lot of emotions around this, so when he came to get her I was just barely holding it together. He asked me if I was ok repeatedly, and I just kept saying yes. And he just kept asking, until finally I had to say “I’m fine, please just let it be”. Then he was all apologetic. Unfortunately by the time they went to leave I could no longer hold it in and I broke down crying. He came over and gave me a hug which was strange feeling.
Later in the evening he texted me a bit about D4 and then asked AGAIN if I was alright. Honestly at that point it just felt annoying and invasive. If you ask someone repeatedly if they are ok and they say yes, EVEN IF they clearly aren’t, that means they don’t want to talk to you about it. Duh. So I decided to be a bit more authentic while still sticking to my guns, and replied that I was having a hard time but that I’m dealing with it myself. He pressed for more, trying to guess the things that might be bothering me, but I wasn’t biting. D4 called to say goodnight, and he later texted to make some MORE GUESSES about what might be bothering me (seriously...) to which I didn’t respond. Then he texted that D4 had been “wanting to come home but now she’s asleep” and asking if he could bring her home earlier than planned in the morning if she was still feeling that way.
He brought her home this morning, and they brought me flowers they had picked from his yard. Before he left H said “I’m sorry you’re having a hard time. If you want to talk to me about it you can. I mean I know it’s...” and kind of trailed off. I just said thanks and he said he’d call later.
So. I do not feel that opening up to him is the right thing to do. Not for me and not for my situation. When he inevitably asks me again if I want to talk, I want to have my response planned. I feel like this may be an important moment for him to know that because of his choice to pursue divorce, he can’t be that person for me, and I can’t share with him in that way. I don’t think that saying that outright is the thing to do, though I could be wrong? I’m just not sure what the best way to express that is. Any suggestions or advice??
First, I think it's great you are authentic and admit to not being fully detached. I think that's true of most of us here, we just don't admit to it always.
He feels guilty, and wants to assuage his own guilt by "making sure you are okay." Of course he can read you well and can tell things are not okay. It probably felt great to him to give you that hug.
But more importantly back to you... you don't need to provide any reasons to him. This is a boundary you are setting. "Please stop asking me if I'm okay" or "I do not want to talk with you, please stop asking." Short and sweet. The more you give reasons, the softer the boundary.
I remember reading on another thread one poster commenting that he feels a lot of LBWs wear their lack of detachment like a badge of honor.
You made solid decisions even under emotional duress.
I feel more LBWs find a place where, even feeling hope and not being completely detached, they're able to give their partner breathing room, while take productive steps forward with their lives.
you don't need to provide any reasons to him. This is a boundary you are setting. "Please stop asking me if I'm okay" or "I do not want to talk with you, please stop asking." Short and sweet. The more you give reasons, the softer the boundary.
Thanks unchien. It doesn’t really feel like I need to set a boundary here—-if he wants to, he can ask til the cows come home. I still won’t open up to him, and it’s no skin off my back. It’s more that I feel like I want him to know the reason that I’m not talking to him about my feelings. I don’t expect to get any kind of reaction from it. It just seems like he doesn’t get it. And seeing as its inevitable he will try again to see if I’ll talk to him about the way I’m feeling, I’d like to use the opportunity to let him know why I won’t. In part, it feels like a temp check. And I don’t want to give him anything. I’m thinking something like:
“I appreciate that you’re concerned, but you can’t be the person I open up to at this point.”
It doesn’t really feel like I need to set a boundary here—-if he wants to, he can ask til the cows come home. I still won’t open up to him, and it’s no skin off my back.
I was reacting to your self-description of not having a poker face. It seemed like you did open up to him a bit, saying you are having a hard time, crying, etc. If you feel strong enough to not react, then I think it's fine to say "Yup, doing okay" as long as you can stick to it. I may be misreading your sitch but it seems like your H is perfectly fine in his own cognitively dissonant reality where he put you through h3ll while he also sees himself as a shoulder to cry on.
Originally Posted by HopeCA
It’s more that I feel like I want him to know the reason that I’m not talking to him about my feelings. I don’t expect to get any kind of reaction from it. It just seems like he doesn’t get it. And seeing as its inevitable he will try again to see if I’ll talk to him about the way I’m feeling, I’d like to use the opportunity to let him know why I won’t. In part, it feels like a temp check. And I don’t want to give him anything.
I hear that you want him to stop temp checking, and you think by explaining your reasons to him, he will stop. I doubt that explaining your reasons is going to have the intended effect. If anything, he may sense your vulnerability and continue with the temp checking.
How about: "I appreciate your concern, thanks."
That pull to have the WAS just *understand* our feelings is so strong, I know. I still have it too sometimes. The times where I let go of that wish, I feel free.
I am so upset and in need of advice. I found out that H has violated a coparenting agreement that we have had in place since the very beginning of all of this. It came out from something D4 said in passing when he was dropping her off on Saturday evening. After he put her to bed I brought it up. He played dumb and stalled the conversation, then proceeded to acknowledge it was true and gaslight the f out of me in every way possible. He Was saying “see this is how you get” as if I was wrong for being upset. Trying to give me time limits on how long I had to speak before he’d walk out, and coming up with every excuse he could think of to try to make me feel I was wrong and to try to walk out, before he did just that and left.
After he left I calmed myself and texted him:
“For the record, you’re wrong. This isn’t “how I get” when I’m upset. This is how I get when I’m justified in being upset because you’ve hurt me, and you treat me badly because of it. This is how you get when you know you’re in the wrong.
This is the absolute ultimate form of disrespect at this point. And given the fact that we both agreed not to allow exactly this scenario to happen with our child, it’s that much more hurtful. I am completely justified in crying and being upset. I did nothing wrong to you. I didn’t do any of the “old things” that you’d like to think I did. I expressed fully justified emotions and expected decency in return.
The only person who is displaying old bad behaviors here is you. I started that conversation out apologizing to you and owning my actions. And you weren’t able to do the same “
He texted back “you are totally right and I am totally wrong”. I assume this was H knowing he was totally wrong but being incapable of admitting that in an authentic way.
I asked “is that serious or is that facetious”. I didn’t hear back until this afternoon, when he gave a half assed acknowledgement that he breached our agreement and my trust, but that he has no intention of stopping and adhering back to the agreement.
I can honestly say that this a new low that I didn’t see coming from him. I truly believed that no matter what, if I did very best, that at the VERY least I would be able to trust him as a coparent in the most basic sense. That is shattered now. I’m triggered beyond belief. It genuinely feels like the more I try to be cordial and generous (as opposed to cold and controlling) the more he does things to screw me over.
He intends to discuss this coparenting issue with me this evening. I feel so triggered that I’m totally spinning. I also feel like I want to lower the boom on this whole thing, give him the rest of his belongings that are still here and let him know I’ve tried but I deserve much much better than this. I know that doesn’t even make sense given the situation. I’d love some advice here
Are you willing to share any details about the coparenting agreement issue?
I am going through a lot of similar issues right now. It feels like peeling a whole new layer of the onion away -- first it was trust in my life partner as a spouse, now it is trust in her as parent. And in the same way I held out hope she would want to work on the MR for the sake of our kids, I held onto that same hope about our ability to co-parent. It is almost as hard to go through this process of realizing that we can't have the happy amicable D where we support our kids in the most healthy way possible (at least for now).
It sounds like you are right to feel angry, but be cautious about that anger feeding into an escalating cycle. I'm not sure you need to hand him the rest of his belongings ASAP, but you can address the issue at hand and make it clear how it has affected your trust in him as a parent.
Thanks unchien, I always appreciate your thoughtful responses.
It is hard isn’t it, this next layer of things with separate parenting. It’s a whole new layer of struggle, pain, shock and disappointment. I agree; the last thing I want to do is escalate this. I relayed the whole thing to a good friend, and she commented that she thinks what he did was a thoughtless, impulsive thing he didn’t think much of, and since he got caught he’s kind of doubled down on “standing up” to me about it. I think the best thing I can do for myself (and a major 180 on my usual responses to things like this) is to state my feelings plainly and let him know I don’t want to have a big talk about it.
As far as wanting to hand him his things, you’re right and I’m going to hold off. I don’t have the energy or desire for any drama. I guess the driving feeling behind wanting to do that is that I’m wanting to take noticeable action to let him know that this is the line for me. I won’t take disrespect as a parent laying down. And furthermore, I feel so sure that I deserve more than to be gaslighted any time I’m upset about something shi**y HE has done, and that has ALWAYS been the case in our relationship. I’d almost forgotten about that immature, selfish trait of his. The more he feels he’s wrong, the worse he treats ME and acts like I’m doing something wrong. It’s intolerable. And it appears he hasn’t grown past it a bit. I guess I’m feeling fed up and wanting to take action. But I should probably just sit with that feeling for awhile...
Hope, do you feel comfortable and confident discussing the issue in person? One of the wonderful benefits of no longer being in a relationship is that you aren’t required to work things out, or communicate, or even ask the other person to do anything. You aren’t required to sit there and hear his excuses or justifications if you don’t want to. This doesn’t make you a bad coparent.
As long as your daughter is safe and content, does this issue need to be raked over the coals? If what he did sets a precedent you aren’t okay with, you can calmly and rationally state your case in writing so you aren’t exposed to his emotional reaction. I fear that you will end up hurt and disappointed again by continuing to engage with a man who cannot or will not meet your expectations for successful coparenting.
Just as an aside - a person who is capable of deceiving and betraying their primary relationship in life can’t be expected to act with honour or integrity in other areas of their life. Not to say they can’t do it, because I’m sure some do, just that it should surprise you if they don’t. It’s like being surprised that a murderer is okay with shoplifting.
I know that I stopped feeling upset when I stopped caring what XH does with S2 on his time. I can’t control it, I can’t dictate it, I can’t even have expectations for it. I haven’t asked about it in many months. As long as S2 is returned to me in good condition, I consider the visit a success. I know (guess?) you are still aiming for reconciliation though, while I am running eagerly towards divorce, and my XH is one of the worst on here by the sounds of it.
Parallel parenting is working well for me. His and hers parenting time. It doesn’t seem like something you’d want right now, but it’s an option if you are struggling with detachment. Are you coparenting under the guise of perpetuating and reviving the marital relationship? Maybe ask yourself why it’s so important to you to have a successful coparenting relationship. Is it for your daughter’s sake or yours? Is it a fear of failure or fear of letting go?
My MR involved quite a bit of gaslighting, or if that is too strong a word, a controlling person whose opinions became our shared "truth" - how to parent, what's best for us, etc. It's not all her fault, I allowed it to happen too. I'm determined to change my half even though it tends to create more friction.
Your friend had great advice -- stand up for yourself, calmly and assertively. Sometimes I think to myself -- the calmer I am, the stronger the message.
Hopefully at some point your H will see you have changed how you handle these situations and modify his behavior accordingly. This may happen, it may not. Doesn't matter.
The last couple months I took a co-parenting class which was fantastic. I highly recommend seeking out some resources (books, podcasts, videos, classes). Why was it fantastic? Because it was honest -- there is nothing you can do to force your co-parenting arrangement to be smooth or amicable. But there are many things you can do to support your daughter as best as you can.
