If I could pass anything over to you, its to not Google about her problems, rather, work on your own.
This is a great bit of advice. You cannot change her, and you cannot control her. Google all you want about the affair fog etc, but it will not change her thought process or feelings - i can pretty much garantee that - i tried!!! before i found this site, i am ashamed to say i was stupid enough ( yes it was stupid ) to google all about her state of mind (affair fog / MLC etc )and share it with her - it made zero difference because i was trying to apply logic to her emotional state of mind.. Your WW is on a high with OM and you are in the way - so let her self destruct and start to work on you.
A lot of us make that mistake. I came to this site specifically because I found a thread that talked about the effects of anti-depressants on the WW mindset. Searching for causes are cheeseless tunnels.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
If I could pass anything over to you, its to not Google about her problems, rather, work on your own.
This is a great bit of advice. You cannot change her, and you cannot control her. Google all you want about the affair fog etc, but it will not change her thought process or feelings - i can pretty much garantee that - i tried!!! before i found this site, i am ashamed to say i was stupid enough ( yes it was stupid ) to google all about her state of mind (affair fog / MLC etc )and share it with her - it made zero difference because i was trying to apply logic to her emotional state of mind.. Your WW is on a high with OM and you are in the way - so let her self destruct and start to work on you.
A lot of us make that mistake. I came to this site specifically because I found a thread that talked about the effects of anti-depressants on the WW mindset. Searching for causes are cheeseless tunnels.
[quote=Steve85][quote=MrBrside][quote=Core]
Anti-depressants on WW mindset? What do you mean. She has been on anti depressants for a little while now. Obviously, they didn't help.
It could be the anti-depressants or any number of other factors on her end. The problem as a LBS is that we think we can figure out the problem and then fix it, to get our spouse back. I don't think the vets have seen a case yet where that works. Therapists themselves can't counsel their spouses back. The WW needs to want to come back on their own and seek their own help.
What's worked for some here is to identify their own problems and address them. Sometimes a WW/WAS sees this change and comes back, other times they are too far gone in their own issues. So many sitchs sound familiar....W had a troubled childhood, became avoidant in the M and left or had an affair. This is her problem to work through and its quite hard to not get involved.
I read somewhere that the more anxious we are, the more avoidant an avoidant spouse becomes. If you become more secure, she could return closer to baseline. If you become more secure whats more important is its better for you and the little one.
H37, W37 D4, S2 ILYBNILWY 9/19 BD 9/19 EA discovered 10/19 Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
She first said the affair lasted 3 months, then I asked it again and she said it was 6. But then I found videos she made for him that went back 13-14 months...all the way back to the ILYBNILWY statement.
It never ceases to amaze me at how cheaters will lie, lie and lie some more. Why in the world did she think that cheating "only" 3 months was better than 6 or 14? Like cheating isn't bad enough! Anyway we've seen this pattern many times here. You can expect continuous lying from now on. You literally cannot believe anything she says. At some point she may hit rock bottom and repent of all of her cheating and lying and turn over a new leaf, but that is way down the road.
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She left the house on D-Day.
Good! Do not let her back! And you stay put! The worst thing an LBS can do is leave the house to the WAS, we see it happen a lot and it just makes BD even worse for them.
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We talk daily and we have gone back to couples therapy.
Like Steve said you should stop both. She's only going to MC to check off her list of "things I did to try and save the M but only proved it really was over." And talking daily and being chummy is only going to plant you firmly in the "Plan B" category.
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In the 2nd couples therapy I said I don't accept that she's seeing him and I will move forward without her if she continues.
Don't make idle threats, it makes you look powerless. She has indeed continued, so what are you going to do now? What does "move forward without her" mean exactly? That's what you need to do.
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She barely apologizes and gets mad when I talk about moving on.
She is a wayward and waywards can be very defiant. Read as many of Sandi's posts as you can, she was a wayward and she talks a lot about the mindset.
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So Im trying to stop contact but we FaceTime with our daughter every night
Do continue to FT D, but don't talk to W other than passing the phone/ tablet to D.
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But I'm also concerned because since she shuts down and runs away from problems, I'm afraid she will take the NC as a sign to run to the OM.
She doesn't need to run to where she already is. She's with OM and any pursuit on your part is just going to look weak and pathetic. You want to be strong, independent, and unaccepting of her wayward behavior.
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my W had said to stop trying to tell her how to feel (I need to get better at this...I've tried talking to her about the affair fog).
You can't use logic and reason to get through to her. She is caught in feelings and emotions right now, nothing you can do will help other than leaving her alone to sort this out.
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Is this affair fog or is she really done? What do info to move forward knowing I talk to her almost daily for our 3 year old? Should I continue going to couples therapy (I will continue IC)? Please any advice or help!
For now she is done. That might change with time. For now you should detach and leave her alone. Do continue IC. Do not continue MC/ CT.
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What do you mean. She has been on anti depressants for a little while now. Obviously, they didn't help.
What he means is we all search for reasons to explain our WAS's behavior. Is it menopause? Is it anti-depressants? Did I do something wrong? Is it an affair fog? Is it a midlife crisis? The bottom line is you don't know, we don't know and even your wife doesn't know. No one knows. And you will never know. So try to accept that diagnosing, trouble-shooting and curing are not the answers here. Let go of the need to know "why".
What do you mean about anti depressants on WW mindset? She started done about 3 months ago but well into her affair.
Again, this doesn't matter. My point was I came here convinced that my WW's problem was her ADs. It wasn't. It isn't. Causes are not important. DBing well is important. Detach! Stop all pressure and pursuit. GAL like a mad man. Seriously, every minute you aren't with your 3 year-old you are busy! BUSY BUSY BUSY
And of course focus on yourself, making self-improvements, become the best version of you that you can be.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Yep. You'll probably never know why. I'll share a paragraph of my farewell letter to my ex--which I burned instead of sending. Context: She refused to update her FB status to indicate we were a couple after 2.5yrs, and In the same week she told me we were forever, she told two acquaintances we were friends and an in-law who has the hots for her (but she definitely does not feel them back) that we were "broken up but talking". I caught her in a couple lies over that last one--
"I forgive you. I don’t know if you were ashamed of me, or were telling them fake news about me, or wanted to be flirted with, liked to silo your life, or didn’t want to share about us in case we failed. Your misleading side makes it hard to know. It was stressful trying to work it out when I was with you, but I’m not anymore. I let go. This says more about you than me. I hope you live a life in the future you’re proud of sharing with the world."
First, I appreciate all of the advice. It's nice to know I have somewhere to turn. I'm trying to end contact as much as possible but then I get pulled back in. Just today she texted me asking to come to gymnastics (for my daughter) tomorrow. I waited hours before I texted her back but I caved. I feel like I'm depriving my daughter if I say no. Obviously I have alternative motives too but shouldn't I put my daughter first? She constantly asks for me when she's with her and the vice verse. It's all hard.
Also, my IC said she thinks I should go to MC but individually while alternating weeks. The MC has agreed to meet me without her but I haven't asked him his thoughts. He honestly is a nice, caring guy who continues to tell her seeing the OM right now is wrong and unhealthy, regardless of what she wants to do with me. I do think he pushes her a bit and if I'm not there then she won't get pissed off and shut down like she always does when I'm there.
Just today she texted me asking to come to gymnastics (for my daughter) tomorrow. I waited hours before I texted her back...
Good job stopping and thinking before replying.
Originally Posted by kto626
but I caved. I feel like I'm depriving my daughter if I say no. shouldn't I put my daughter first?
I rarely turn down spending time with my kids. I didn't divorce them!
Originally Posted by kto626
Obviously I have alternative motives too
That line troubles me. Could you drop those for two hours and just focus on your daughter? If it helps, you could sit apart from her. I sometimes did that when the D was fresh between my ex-wife and I. My conversations were limited to a few words--usually a comment at the end about our child's performance.
I do have to ask, you say you love her and want to save things, but she is actively in an affair. One she refuses to stop. At this point what are you trying to save?
I guess I'm trying to save us. I keep reading about the affair fog and if she is in it, which a lot of things sound like she is, her behavior is typical. Meaning, wanting to keep me as plan B until she's out of the fog. But I could be just telling myself that.
Everything I read and learn in therapy is time is on my side. I guess I'm taking it hoping she will come back. So filing for divorce isn't following that plan. Why file now if I can later? To scare her into reality?
No, you file now so you can move forward. I am staunchly anti-D, unless a spouse is in an active affair. When that is the case, and they are unabashed about it "Yes, I am still in contact with OP and no I won't stop." then what alternatives does the LBS have?
So absolutely, do not file until you are ready to file. I guess if you aren't ready, my only question would be: if your W leaving and refusing to stop the affair doesn't make you ready, what would?
I wish a thousand times over OP that I had this site and advice when I found out about my husband's affair. It would have saved me so much confusion, torture, mistakes, and gotten me off the hopium. I am a fixer also. And I thought I could persuade my husband into doing what's right. Listen, if that were true, I would have the happiest damn marriage on the planet.
My husband had a two year EA/PA with one of my good friends. So I know well the pain and shock you are feeling. It's the worst. But it does get better.
For affair fog to clear, they must be in absolute no contact and she would have to go through withdrawals. which aren't pretty. An A is a literal dopamine addiction. And even then, it doesn't mean you will be together again. My husband, three years later, still claims they had an amazing connection and I think he wishes they could be together (she went back to her husband) or he could find someone just like her. Puke. It also took him forever to end it. I heard every excuse, "we just need to wean off of each other."
Get off the roller coaster.
Right now work on you. Loving you. Understanding you are a catch and you will be happy no matter what. Detach from the crazy. Don't let it affect every area of your life. She has become a lying cheater and she will lie and cheat you to get what she believes she needs. Be careful.
The only way for you to be together again is for you to stand up for yourself. To completely detach and move forward. If a cheater gets a whiff that you are in the wings just waiting for them, you're screwed. I was a Plan B for way too long. with any luck the bottom will fall out of this relationship once it hits the light of day.
But those are all if's. Focus on you. Take the advice here. It will either save your marriage or save you. This site has been a lifesaver for me. Keep reading and keep posting. Go to Cadet's thread above and READ everything. I would pay attention to Sandi's rules.
Good luck my friend.
the best apology is changed behavior. *************** me: 45 h: 48 m: 23 T: 26 DD1:19 DD2:16 DS:11 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
