SamCal, I've been following your sitch some but haven't posted, and I'm so glad to see it swinging this way.
Originally Posted by SamCal
He said he can see that I do value him as a person, and apologized for not believing that I could work on myself and turn things around. He opened up about how no one in his life who has loved him but treated him poorly some times (parents, boss) has been able to actually change how they are treating him, and that was a lot of why he didn't think it was possible.
This hit me—I'm really thinking, no matter what happens, I hope my H can see I value him as a person. I hope I have changed how I treat him like I think I have... I may need to travel back through your thread.
cardinal - that probably hurt the most when my H said he didn't feel valued (he's been open about feeling that way the entire time, and that was why he left) because I always valued him inside. When I reflected hard on how I was treating him, I realized there were many ways that I was slowly tearing him down that I genuinely did not realize, and that he became to scared to even bring up. I was depressed and not handling it well, and treating myself poorly, and therefore treating him poorly. Some of the things I identified on my own and brought up in MC, H was surprised at the self reflection I had. Me trying to be more compassionate has helped me understand how my words or actions may affect people in ways that I don't see or think about. The self-reflection part on how I was acting was really difficult, and I was vocal about how I understood I was treating him that way, but my treatment wasn't lining up with how I felt inside because I did love/respect/value him. I assumed he knew I felt positively about him, so wasn't taking the time to give positive feedback, only negative. (this is something I struggled with initially as a manager, but overcame as a manager years ago and was mad that I didn't apply this to my marriage!) H has noticed and mentioned this change, for sure. It's one I have felt confident with since I knew I had major success incorporating that into my management style years ago. I was also just not fun to be around for a while, and didn't even want to be myself. I was being a nitpicky, nagging mess, who just wanted to be heard and not take time to hear his side. H and I have always been physically incredibly connected, but I was so stressed out or upset that we stopped ML for weeks at a time, and that greatly affected us both. I basically feel like I have emotionally let myself out of the prison I was holding myself in, took accountability for my actions, and enjoy life again - and did that for me, not to manipulate him back, and he said he can truly tell that. I feel good about things b/c I can see he is more emotionally equipped to talk to me about stuff if he is unhappy with something, and has a better understanding of what treatment is and is not OK with him, and how to effectively vocalize that. We are both working towards making an emotionally safe environment for each other - that's how we connected and fell in love in the first place. (for the most part - I held back when dating b/c I honestly thought he would be bad in bed, and he proved me so, so incredibly wrong - lulz)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here, SamCal. I do identify with this.
Originally Posted by SamCal
Me trying to be more compassionate has helped me understand how my words or actions may affect people in ways that I don't see or think about. The self-reflection part on how I was acting was really difficult, and I was vocal about how I understood I was treating him that way, but my treatment wasn't lining up with how I felt inside because I did love/respect/value him.
In my case, I did desire my H and tell him that, but my actions didn't line up with how I felt inside, and that must have really hurt him. I feel like I've come more and more to a place where I can really empathize with what my H shared at BD, even if it was an exaggerated, spewing, negative version of everything. I just have to remember to empathize with myself too!
Originally Posted by SamCal
I feel good about things b/c I can see he is more emotionally equipped to talk to me about stuff if he is unhappy with something, and has a better understanding of what treatment is and is not OK with him, and how to effectively vocalize that.
This is encouraging and would be something my H really needs to do for his own growth. I know I would be better equipped to hear him and respond now. I'm so glad your H has done this work.
Originally Posted by SamCal
We are both working towards making an emotionally safe environment for each other - that's how we connected and fell in love in the first place.
This is lovely. I wish you all the best on this part of the journey!
I have struggled the past few days with feeling like I wasn't getting "enough" from H, but objectively, was getting a lot. This has been so hard to be physically apart for 2 weeks like this now that he's back in. We have spent much longer times apart both during separation and before hand (due to work), but I feel extra needy in the reassurance department and am trying to mitigate that. It's been easier now that i am home from my work travels, too, and can hang with my friends/do stuff around the house/with the dogs. I'd been trying to figure out how to express my needs without triggering some sort of defensive response, and coming up with nothing. Debating about if I was being fair to him since he is super busy in this course, etc. I felt he had been a little distant the past few days, but I don't think it was anything personal - the majority of his day is taken up with their final project.
That said....I am just dang impatient and glad I didn't say anything, because H was doing all kinds of stuff behind the scenes that I didn't know about. Following up with this couple's weekend thing, talking to his boss about working in our city this weekend instead of where his place is, laying the groundwork for the bigger convo of coming back to his office here in town. (I've mentioned before, one of H's bosses is one of my BFFs, and that's how I met H - boss BFF actually performed our wedding ceremony. He's been there more for me than my H during this, but I haven't said a ton to boss and left it to H to navigate re: his return. I know this boss friend and another bigger boss are in favor of reconciling, and will help this work logistics-wise). He took the time to explain some work related challenges and details of how he is going to tackle them, too. Here I was being impatient and faithless, and was wrong.
My ex-H was an abusive alcoholic, and I spent a lot of time reading al-anon stuff, and one of the biggest takeaways was allowing loved ones to have the dignity to fail on their own (e.g. quit fixing, controlling, and focus on you!). That's one I am trying to implement, and need to look at it from the other angle, too - give him the dignity to SUCCEED on his own. I can definitely overcorrect in the controlling dept due to my previous marriage, where if I didn't do something, it point blank did not get done. My patience has paid off many times in this process, and I am proud at growing in this area, because patience has been my struggle for life.
I look forward to him coming home late Friday night, and spending time together over the weekend.
H came home late Friday night and I picked him up from the airport in his car (his request). He was very excited to see me, and immediately noticed that I'd paired my phone to the bluetooth in that car (H got this car during S) and exclaimed that made him happy and feel secure and relieved, which was cute. He had to work some Saturday and Sunday, but not much. We were social together Saturday afternoon, and I had fancy dinner stuff to cook for us on Saturday. Sunday we hung out in the afternoon and snuggled a lot on the couch. We did have some talks Sunday on how to handle some stuff going forward, but it wasn't too heavy a talk (still productive, though).
I felt very secure all weekend. He was open about how happy he was to be home, and unpacked the stuff that he could. He spoke to work about transitioning back to our town, and work was very supportive. He had to go back to his house super early Monday morning for a doctor's appt, and work. He thought he would be able to come right back, but due to work hasn't been able to. He's been super communicative and has packed a lot of his stuff up to bring here to our house. Due to the nature of what's going on in the country and the nature of his work, some of this is uncertain. He is aiming to come back tomorrow.
It's hard being apart right now. I am trying to focus on current status mentally instead of automatically feeling like the distance = rejection. We have to be apart sometimes for long stretches anyhow (military), I am still doing GAL as much as I can with restrictions in place (saw a friend while H was at work Saturday, went running/walking dogs etc). I was somewhat worried H would exhibit codependency things over the weekend, but he didn't. There weren't any points of disagreement and it was a good mixture of being social and having quality time alone at home. I never felt I had to suppress any feelings, and he didn't either. Obviously there will be points of friction in the future, and we are both cautious to not fall into old habits or patterns that were hurtful. I feel in a better place, mentally, but am still continuing IC.
Things are still going really well. Due to the virus, our couples weekend thing was canceled, but we are supposed to do one locally at the end of May (presuming things are back to 'normal' by then).
Fortunately, we are both still working during this madness, but neither in high risk situations. I live in a city that was hit very hard, and feel grateful that it isn't impacting me financially. Also, I am glad to not be S anymore during this stuff, Jesus. I do not know if this means H's deployment will be impacted - guess we will see. As of now, I don't think it is? It's for the end of June.
H has moved most of his stuff back to our house. He has spoken to his landlord and working out breaking the lease. He has had to travel where his house is twice, but only for a day or two at a time. He's been excited to be back, and fixed a lot of small things that needed fixing without me nagging. Also, a big 180 for me here: I told him I would listen and help if asked about the situation with him breaking his lease, but that I am going to step back from it emotionally because I am frustrated by it. I think this made us both feel better - he has been handling it on his own, and isn't worried about me constantly bringing it up or saying things that aren't constructive about it. This felt really good to do and be up front with it. It's his mess, and he is cleaning it up.
We do have disagreements sometimes, but handle them much better than we had in the past. He seems much more grounded and open, still. He has not seen his IC, and due to everything being shut down we have not found a new MC, but I am still seeing IC. IC had asked a while ago if H would be open to talking to him, so H did talk to my IC separately during the week. H told me about it, the IC asked him a few questions like how am I doing, what does he think I should work on, if he could do S differently would he have. IC and I didn't discuss their convo yet but will this upcoming week. IC said he has a lot of notes, and that H was incredibly complimentary of me the entire time. We did all of the exercises in a marriage book, and the answers together were refreshing and fun to go over.
I worry about sometimes being in 'honeymoon' phase, or if this whole social shut down is making things too idyllic, but our normal is only semi disrupted since he is still having to travel some, I am still working, and so is he. We did have a pretty tense disagreement where I think I handled it better but I felt very disrespected by how he was acting. He has apologized and identified his behavior missteps on his own. I know things aren't going to be perfect, so it was good to see how this ended up fully playing out. I still have bouts of being hurt, and am challenging myself to live in the present.
Hi Sam...I just read through your situation, and I wanted to thank you for sharing everything you did, and for continuing to share updates. I remember you posting on my thread that you thought our situations had some similarities, and I can definitely see them now. I think my husband is in a "pull away" period after having moved back towards our relationship fairly quickly following our separation, and, as I'm sure you know, that's particularly hard. It's tough not to think they'll just get stuck in that mode or make a decision while in that mode, yet I'm always inclined to doubt the positive moments, too. It also really pinged with me when you were describing marital counseling and, even with the therapist you guys worked well with, that he was kind of pushing your husband to make a decision about reconciliation, and how that might have been too fast. Anyway, I think you handled your situation so well, and it's really a model for others. I'm hoping for the best for you as things continue forward.
I'm 40, H is 36. No kids. No infidelity of which I'm aware. Mini BD January 2020 -- not sure if he wants to try anymore BD March 2020 -- separation
The pull away periods are definitely the hardest, and most frustrating. It helps to remember that they are super confused and incapable of making a decision either way, really - otherwise you wouldn't be where you are at. You've done a good job on giving him space. What they do say is true - you'll know when he wants to come back. My H made it clear and still has been actively making that clear on a daily basis. It's helped me feel very secure. He's definitely listened and done 180s of his own consistently.
That MC definitely did make things harder, partially due to his tone of like "get over it" almost? Also, I'd made it clear that I wasn't 100% sure what I wanted to do either; did I want to stand for someone who would just cut and run basically? I don't regret going to MC, but don't think it really helped a ton. It gave me a space to voice some self introspection I'd done, but my H was also willing to listen to what I had to say generally even outside of MC.
cardinal - that probably hurt the most when my H said he didn't feel valued (he's been open about feeling that way the entire time, and that was why he left) because I always valued him inside. When I reflected hard on how I was treating him, I realized there were many ways that I was slowly tearing him down that I genuinely did not realize, and that he became to scared to even bring up. I was depressed and not handling it well, and treating myself poorly, and therefore treating him poorly. Some of the things I identified on my own and brought up in MC, H was surprised at the self reflection I had. Me trying to be more compassionate has helped me understand how my words or actions may affect people in ways that I don't see or think about. The self-reflection part on how I was acting was really difficult, and I was vocal about how I understood I was treating him that way, but my treatment wasn't lining up with how I felt inside because I did love/respect/value him. I assumed he knew I felt positively about him, so wasn't taking the time to give positive feedback, only negative. (this is something I struggled with initially as a manager, but overcame as a manager years ago and was mad that I didn't apply this to my marriage!) H has noticed and mentioned this change, for sure. It's one I have felt confident with since I knew I had major success incorporating that into my management style years ago. I was also just not fun to be around for a while, and didn't even want to be myself. I was being a nitpicky, nagging mess, who just wanted to be heard and not take time to hear his side. H and I have always been physically incredibly connected, but I was so stressed out or upset that we stopped ML for weeks at a time, and that greatly affected us both. I basically feel like I have emotionally let myself out of the prison I was holding myself in, took accountability for my actions, and enjoy life again - and did that for me, not to manipulate him back, and he said he can truly tell that. I feel good about things b/c I can see he is more emotionally equipped to talk to me about stuff if he is unhappy with something, and has a better understanding of what treatment is and is not OK with him, and how to effectively vocalize that. We are both working towards making an emotionally safe environment for each other - that's how we connected and fell in love in the first place. (for the most part - I held back when dating b/c I honestly thought he would be bad in bed, and he proved me so, so incredibly wrong - lulz)
This - I feel this is my H too. He was trying to reach out to me... I was lost in my own head and dealing with my own self esteem issues. He even voiced his needs were not being met but did so as he was walking in from work and I was heading out the door. He could have had better timing... a time when we both could have been awake and focused on each other. In his pain he relied on a female friend and that lead to a PA that he is still in.
I appreciate your thread. I've read it all. You handled everything well - not perfectly but then who does right? Your H managed to work through his issues and I'm glad you have reconciled.
Please don't stop DB... I was here 2yr ago when my H was just unhappy and no A... I turned him around with the new wonderful me - which was just the old me coming back. Weight gain just sunk my ship and I got stuck in my own head. Felt my H deserved someone who was smoking hot so I turned away from his physical affection not ever realizing that it was leaving him feeling rejected... once I found that out it broke my world but I found it out too late.
So don't stop... keep reading... come back to visit to stay on the path to keep your M healthy. I wish the you the best!!! And a wonderful future.
I wanted to update, and also discuss a huge piece of this that I left out. I was embarrassed, and didn't know how to handle some of this outside of H and I. I am adding this in so hopefully someone will find my situation helpful to them and that means including a part I initially did not disclose for a few reasons. I vowed to keep this to myself and IC/MCs, but want to share here for advice and in the hopes it will help someone down the road. I know that if I can tell this story anywhere, it's here.
Before H left for his work trip at the beginning of March, I accidentally found out that he did in fact cheat on me only while we were separated. I found this in a journal completely by accident - H has never kept a journal in his life, it was in his trunk, and the first page was open to "had great sex." So, yes, then I read it. It covered most of when he was gone There were other topics in there too about how he was pretty sure he couldn't overcome what happened between us, and how I made him angry. It was devastating. However, the benefit was that I have the actual timeline of when things occurred. There was no overlap between when he lived at home and when he was hanging out more. He went on a date with a friend in early January, had a drunk one nighter with a separate old GF around that time, and went on a few dates/had sex with someone where he was living during late November/mid December. I confronted him, and he said he had planned to tell me when he returned from his trip (I did later see evidence supporting this - he had spoken to his IC about it), so I could make an informed decision, and he knew that him telling me meant he may lose me, but that he couldn't move back without me knowing. I know the details that I wanted/needed to know. He's not balked at any of it.
Overall, this has really, really hurt. However, it didn't affect his decision to come back, and he has been amazing about this part (and others) ever since. No secrecy, answers whatever I want, shows me whatever I want. Obviously this has led to many painful conversations. During this time, though, he has shown some real emotional maturity, especially about his mindset during that time. He never has blamed me, never has made excuses, and not really sugar coated things with me which I appreciate. He has examined why he did this both in IC and in MC together, which we started 2 weeks ago. He is still deploying at the end of June, and he is dedicated to making our relationship as solid as possible before leaving. We have read MANY books together, had many talks, etc. - because we are also still working through why he left in the first place, and what our respective contributions were. I believe he is truly sorry and is trying to not hate himself over it. It's been tough b/c the biggest betrayal to me was that I specifically asked that we be faithful to each other when separated because I wasn't sure if I'd be able to come back from something like this. That part hurts the most. He has been there for me and been helping me through this hurt. I feel traumatized in many ways - how I found out, being betrayed, etc. I am glad to know that the timeline does truly match up, and have spent time understanding where he was mentally at that time. He knows he was a lost mess, but doesn't excuse his behavior. With every book that we have read on the topic, sometimes I feel guilty about how awful I feel when I read about situations that are objectively so much more awful - but I also allow myself to feel my feelings.
The benefit of virus stuff has helped us be able to spend a whole lot of quality time together, both having fun, having difficult talks, working through everything. We read the MWD infidelity book, as well as several others. He has been taking initiative with all of it. I don't think it's even through guilt - he genuinely wants us to be stronger, and I do actually believe him when he says he won't do this again. He says he really thought he couldn't get over how he felt about me, had felt neglected for a while, and ultimately being with others made him feel worse. He recreated the birthday that he missed by surprising me with a homemade cake and presents. He has hung out with our friends, and even called my dad last week. He has been the model, and it feels so genuine - which is weird for me to say since I am so naturally cynical. I do feel that if anything, that time apart hurts but also taught us a whole lot, and that lesson isn't a whole story to others without me disclosing this piece.
We are both still in IC, and both really love our new MC. She has been amazingly helpful, we both feel heard and supported. It's been almost 3 whole months since I found out and he came back. It's been rough, but I feel we are both better people for it, and have a stronger marriage. He has put in a lot of time and effort onto creating a safe supportive space inside and outside of our marriage. No one outside of our marriage knows, and I'd like to keep it that way. He has put a lot of effort into making our house a home, and I can tell it's because he is enjoying it and wants to. He tells me almost every day that I am his person. He has addressed so many individual issues he had going on, and frankly just done a lot of maturing in a way that is authentic. We are doing well, and are setting many better habits and deeper understandings in motion. I am definitely hurt and scared a lot, but also enjoying the super fun times that we are having together, too. If I had a dollar for every tough convo we have had during this time....oy.
