WM, here is the thing. You can't fix her, or your D. All you can do is be the best parent that you can be from this moment forward. And coparent with your ex in the most productive, kid-first focused way possible.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Well Wolf judging on how you and your ex interact with each other your life isn’t going to move on for a really long time.
My guess is that both of you guys are so wrapped in yourselves and your bfs and gfs that your kids needs are not getting met.
I am trying to help my kids out. I am trying to get their needs met. I have listened on how to communicate with ex. But she is very difficult. For very long I was a nice guy and gave in to her needs. This board opened my eyes up about that. So now I try and do what’s “right”. But ex is so use to me placating her she fires back with hostility. I know I can’t control her, I can only control myself. I have become so much more patient and I do a lot of validating now. I even do it for my children, validate.
M:42 XW:41 T:19 M: 15 D:13 S:10 BD: 8/10/18 Moved out: 8/18 Moved in: 9/18/18 Moved out: 4/22/19 D papers signed 11/4/19 D final 3/18/20
I completely understand what you are saying and I feel your pain. You listen to all the advice her and implement it perfectly. You’re a fantastic dad who listens and understands that this is a really difficult time and strangers may even make it more difficult. It’s not your fault your ex is a horrible person and is to blame for everything. She even made you go out and get a gf who competes with your children for your attention. This is all her fault and I am so sorry you are involved in this mess.
My d has been I therapy since she was 3. Because she had severe separation anxiety. Anytime my ex would leave her she would cry and throw tantrums.
One of my children went through a period much like you described. It started after I went back to work. Every time I got out of her sight, she would panic. I felt responsible, b/c someone told me to slip out when they (the babysitter, my SIL) got the child busy playing. I think that was a mistake, b/c it got where I couldn't walk out of the room without her getting anxious. Eventually, my grandparents started keeping her while I was working, and the problems went away. Apparently, things were more severe with your child.
IMHO, your ex should have been the one in therapy, instead of your three year old child. Based on the things you have described, there is something there that is unhealthy in that relationship between your ex and her first born. When a negative minded (or some type of mental illness) mother is constantly talking in the ear of her daughter, I think there could be repercussions.
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My son is not like that at all.
My guess is your ex's relationship with the son is not the same as with the daughter.
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The point is I was always there for my d in a very loving way. My ex and her would always battle. But once this happened, my d quickly sided with her. Both therapists said because my d is afraid my ex with cut her off too. (My ex has cut out endlesss amounts of friends and family, she doesn’t talk to anyone in her family except her parents, that’s because that constantly give her money, or else she would have cut them off too. As a matter of fact she barely spoke to her parents for 2 years before our separation because she had so many problems with her parents and brother. But once this happened she went crying to them for money.) That they latch on to the abuser for fear of rejection. And that I am the safe one and she knows I would never do that too her. I hope all of this makes sense.
It makes perfect sense to me. The mother and daughter do not have to get along, but the mother's neurotic influence is extremely strong. When the mother cuts someone off, or when she is agitated with the H, she communicates the negative one-sided perspective to the daughter she holds so tightly. The mother's unhealthy mental condition will probably have affect on the daughter. That's not to say the daughter has no hope in living a fairly, normal, happy life. I'm just suggesting that she will struggle to break free of her mother's unhealthy influence over her (the daughter) own thoughts, emotions, and actions. Having a healthy minded father is certainly a plus in the daughter's life.
The view of the family dynamic appears extremely unfair for the father who is trying to show the natural loving side of a parent. Not only can the neuroticism in the mother cause inadequate parenting practices, but it creates a very stressful family environment. The neurotic mother may appear to "do no wrong" in the eyes of the children, while the more healthy father feels that his parenting downs in the powerful negative parenting style of the mother. When the parents don't get along, the child who is heavily influenced by the neurotic mother, may feel she/he has to show allegiance.
Obviously, I'm not a psychologist......and, I only have your version of the situation. IMHO, your daughter struggles to be independent of her mother, but it's very difficult b/c she doesn't want Mother to think she is choosing sides with you. Your daughter is very angry at the divorce, at her parents, etc. Seeing you with a GF may feel more threatening for your daughter. You were the head, the protector, and you left. Add that to all the negative things her mother may have said about you, and it makes sense that your teenage daughter would feel more threatened, and angered, by the parent who left the home (losing a sense of her stability) and who is, possibly, bringing a new woman into his new place. Although you have tried to convince your children that you will always be in their lives, I think your teenager is dealing with a lot of internal emotions. She is approaching womanhood, and it could be frightening to know just how much her mother (plus this entire experience) is molding your daughter's opinion about men & about marriage in general. That's a lot to consider, but don't give up on your daughter. She needs her father, even if her words and behavior says otherwise.
I believe most children with newly divorced parents, go through what I call "The Parent Trap" phase. You remember the movie, where the twins try to get their divorced parents back together? Although you may not see any signs on the surface, I think the kids go through an emotional period where they have such high hopes of their parents reconciling, that any type of interference causes anxiety, anger, and fear. It seem obvious, to me, that your teenage daughter sees a GF as an interference that would prevent you from moving back into the family home. Why would she not have the same reaction to her mother's BF? IDK, unless it's b/c she doesn't recognize her mother being the one who physically abandoned the home. Also, some girls just have that jealousy about their dad. It's okay if it's mom, but just let dad introduce a GF, and the daughter feels threatened that dad will love this woman (put her first in his life) more than he loves his daughter.
How old is your GF? You've said she is immature, and I suspect her immaturity will rear its head the highest whenever she feels she is not number one in your life. If both of you had no children from a previous relationship......then, of course, she should expect nothing less than being number one. However, this girl is already telling you that she has to come first, over your children. There was something else I had read about her that I saw as big red flag, but I can't remember at the moment. Anyway, I hope you will take more time before taking the step to live with her. I get the impression that she is lot younger and sexier, which doesn't hurt the old bruised ego, does it? You wouldn't be the first man who was persuaded by a young sexy thing to cloud your judgement. I really think it could hurt your relationship with your teenage daughter. I, also, believe it is difficult for a daughter to accept a new GF who isn't, at the very least, more than a decade older than her.
As some others have said, you are too emotionally attached to your ex. I'm not saying you are in love with your ex. You are not detached, b/c her words and actions upset you too much to be detached. The competition over the kids, and spirit of an one-up must stop. You've got to detach emotionally from her actions. Having a young sexy GF is not a working vehicle in finding detachment from your ex. It may be a short lived distraction, or a salve, but it's not likely to suit a long term relationship. You will, however, open the door for more complications in your life, by having an immature GF.
I remember something you said when responding to a question about why you would want to go back to your ex (or something along that line). You, actually, did not say anything about her, but you spoke about missing the environment of a "family", and you really talked more passionately about your attachment to the house, and all the hard work you put into the building. To me, that speaks volumes. I'm not saying it's wrong. I think you were devoted to your family, but your neurotic W became too much for you. I don't know that you stilled love her, but you loved the idea of a family. I would hate to see you fall into another relationship where you are seeking to fill that same longing, without you and the woman being seriously in love and stable enough to undertake the challenges families present.
((hugs))
Last edited by sandi2; 03/03/2005:04 PM.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
My d has been I therapy since she was 3. Because she had severe separation anxiety
Wolf, c'mon man. Therapy for 9 years? This should prove to you that 1 hour a week will never replace a positive environment with strong, smart parents. I hope you are going to make that environment.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
When my d met my GF she cried that she had to meet her.
I can see why. Her parents have been divorced all of 2 seconds, they both are still somewhat attached, she knows her dad wanted to save this and here come your "girlfriend" who you started dating before you were divorced right? I bet your daughter blames this woman and you, at least partially, for the divorce. Now we know there was a lot more to it but how can she consider that when this big deal is right in her face?
Originally Posted by Wolfman
My ex would yell at her to get over it and to cut the $hit.
I'm not there, so I don't know, but maybe your ex is right...there's so many people claiming anxiety today and counseling and mental health is in vogue right now. Kids are always looking for excuses and exceptions and it's mostly just whiny kids. I'm reading a family tree book with stories over a 100 years old and the things they expected out of children back then blows my mind. Now we let kids be kids well into their 20's. If your daughter grew up on a farm she wouldn't have time to worry about anxiety, she'd be too busy working.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I slept on her floor for a week until she got better.
I can't begin to understand the purpose of this.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I hope all of this makes sense.
It doesn't. I think you are overanalyzing everything.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I would just hope that she would treat us equally. Nasty to both or nice to both. It just hurts that I was always there for my d but now she is making me out to be the “bad” guy. I just hurts so much how I tried to always be this loving, caring parent.
She's 12. Adults don't treat everyone equally either, so what? This whole thing reeks of victimhood and not responsibility. Just be a good dad. You don't have to handle her with velvet gloves either, just be smart, strong, responsible, hardworking.
Wolfman,
I can tell you are still hurting over all of this crap. I think you need to work on letting it go. Stop letting things bother you. Be more detached with your ex-W, with your kids, with your gf. You are trying so hard to improve in all of these areas. I think you could benefit from a big, deep breath (figuratively and literally). Stop playing into your ex's arguments, there's not benefit to you. Do the right thing even when it's hard (it will never be the easier option). If you aren't in a spot where you're ready for a gf, then make that choice. I know you want her, I'm sure it's nice having someone who cares about you. Make sure you are putting yourself first when it comes to this relationship.
When it comes to parenting, I think you need some old fashioned advice. You know what it is. You may think it doesn't matter for you. Your choice. Good luck, Wolfman.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I completely understand what you are saying and I feel your pain. You listen to all the advice her and implement it perfectly. You’re a fantastic dad who listens and understands that this is a really difficult time and strangers may even make it more difficult. It’s not your fault your ex is a horrible person and is to blame for everything. She even made you go out and get a gf who competes with your children for your attention. This is all her fault and I am so sorry you are involved in this mess.
Lol That was very impressive. I wish I could validate as good as you did. It’s a work in progress, but not at your level yet.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by Wolfman
...her she fires back with hostility....
When she does this, how do you respond?
I respond by trying to validate her feelings. But if it becomes disrespectful I will not let her speak to me that way. So it depends on the text. I don’t validate as good as some of you but I am getting better.
Overr you are right I tried to save this marriage for a long time. I was using another program for a while I’m going to scramble his name but some of you heard of him (fort Martel) about giving, touch charges, talk charges, I did it for 5 months trying so hard. I was doing everything she complained I didn’t. I even went above and beyond putting rose petals on the bed. Buying roses. Giving her little gifts. It did nothing. Then I came here. Granted I wasn’t the best student. But I was willing to try. My d didn’t know about my GF until 2 months ago. 16 months after we separated. My d does not act like that around my ex and her BF. It’s just me. Also the whole thing about sleeping on the floor. My d was having bad anxiety and she asked me to stay with her, so I did. I was trying to show my d I love her very much and would do anything for her. It never mattered. They only remember the few mistakes I made and run with that. You also mentioned about detaching more from everyone and not try to work on everything. That’s who I am. I try to fix things and make everything better. I am trying to be the best parent possible. I am being calm now and loving. I want nothing but the best for my kids. But I also want some happiness for myself. I sacrificed a lot for the sake to make everyone happy, the ex and the kids. Against the advice of the board. I am so sorry I did not listen to a lot of you about taking the MBR back. I am so sorry that I just rolled over and gave her what she wanted. She had gaslighted next so much she had me believe I was this horrible vindictive person. And any time I did not agree she would say those words and I would quickly back down. I am very disappointed in myself. Maybe things would have been different or maybe not, but I would of had more self respect for myself. I was emotionally so strong until the BD. I wanted so bad to save my family, so bad, that I was willing to do anything to prove it, and in the end I just lost my respect. So now yes, I am doing things that make me happy and without hurting my children. Will there be things that might be hard for them to handle ( like me having a GF) yes!!! I know my ex is never coming back. And I am fine with that. I want to start the next chapter in my life.
Sandi I will address you’re post next. A lot to address there.
M:42 XW:41 T:19 M: 15 D:13 S:10 BD: 8/10/18 Moved out: 8/18 Moved in: 9/18/18 Moved out: 4/22/19 D papers signed 11/4/19 D final 3/18/20
