I decided to let the anxiety about the envelope go—-I’m not worried that there’s anything he could be up to that would affect me in an immediate sense, and I decided that I should wait and see, rather than ask questions just to soothe my anxiety. Nothing has come of it so far.
Question after reading the conversation you had with your H - is there any chance he is considering filing for a change in temporary custody arrangements?
Originally Posted by HopeCA
After he put D4 to bed, he brought up wanting to figure out a custody arrangement for the D. I kept composed and we started a long conversation about custody stuff. We had some sticking points and he was frustrated and wanted to see a mediator. That frustration (re me not giving in to what he wants) quickly devolved into him expressing his anger at me for OLD things from our past (the same things he has brought up over and over again since BD, which we have discussed at length, I’ve apologized profusely for, etc) He expressed feeling that I was steam rolling him in the conversation, that I let my emotions control all me decisions, I’m inflexible and I always get my way.He brought up wanting to have taken D4 on trips in the last year and I’ve always said no. I told him I realize that and wanted to do the right thing despite my feelings and anxieties, and that’s why I’d said yes this time. It almost feels like my giving him what he wanted triggered his anger about all the times I didn’t.
I was genuinely shocked, I hadn’t heard that kind of anger and animosity and resentment from him in a while, and I validated and let him know I was surprised as I didn’t realize he still felt those ways. He said of course he does, it’s old scars and ptsd from what I put him through and he doesn’t know if it will ever heal. I tried to validate as much as I could. He also said that “the only thing he ever did wrong in our M was to kiss your a$$ and bend over backward to make you happy”.ummm ok. I breathed and said I hear what you’re saying, but I don’t see it that way. I told him that I know it’s possible to forgive and get past that level of pain and anger, because I’ve largely done it with therapy during all of this. He got quiet and said he was tired and left.
I am frustrated and annoyed on your behalf!
Keep standing up for yourself and what you believe in. Now you've seen a glimpse of how he feels, so you are better prepared even when he is "playing nice" for awhile.
It sounds like you have a clear head about what you think is fair and reasonable, and aren't going to be swayed easily by his emotional pleas.
Originally Posted by HopeCA
It feels like he just does not WANT to forgive me. It feels like he sets himself/us up ass a test and when he enjoys his time with me it makes him angry and think about past resentments, or something like that. I don’t know. It’s just so frustrating that he is seemingly choosing to remain resentful and resist healing/forgiveness at all. I just don’t get it.
It's a lot easier to justify one's life decisions when they can be blamed on somebody else. It's really that simple. That mindset also blocks personal growth... his loss.
Thanks unchien, I appreciate your thoughts. To answer your question, a temporary custody change is one of the options I thought of for what might be in the envelope. I *think* that he was assuming I’d say no to the trip and maybe would have filed it if I had, but I don’t know.
I agree with you about blaming me for his life choices and about his limiting his own personal growth. The latter has always been in an issue in our R, and with all the talk of him taking care of himself and getting therapy, not drinking, exercising etc, I guess I assumed he’d taken a step forward in that regard. It doesn’t seem that is true and it’s disappointing.
This morning he came to pick up D4, and brought me coffee and came in all cheerful, called me by a nickname. When D4 was out of ear shot he apologized for our last conversation, said he doesn’t hate me and that he does still have some anger but he wants us to have a good relationship. I thanked him for that. I was feeling prickly and sensitive and not at my best, so I didn’t say much. When they left he went in for a big hug from me. He is the most confusing and frustrating person. I’m continuing my efforts toward detachment for my own sanity because this is just too hard.
Geez, Hope, that was a tough conversation, and you handled it really well on your end. It's a good reminder to me that just because it seems like H's anger and resentment have faded a bit, that might not be the case. No expectations, indeed. You should be proud that you have worked so hard to get to where you are, and that you are not weighed down with those feelings. He's struggling with those feelings, but at least seems somewhat aware of the struggle. I hope for his and your sake he continues to work through them. It might take longer than you'd hope, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.
I guess I assumed he’d taken a step forward in that regard. It doesn’t seem that is true and it’s disappointing.
I think change is always possible but it doesn’t come easy. I didn’t change until I hit my own emotional rock bottom. It helps me to think this way - I have empathy for my W because she has not really had to deal with her resentment yet. I was forced to deal with my issues, being in the LBS position.
This is another reason to detach and stop reading into things. We are so often wrong, or projecting what we hope to be true.
Originally Posted by HopeCA
He is the most confusing and frustrating person. I’m continuing my efforts toward detachment for my own sanity because this is just too hard.
This is exactly what detachment is all about.
I get it. Before Xmas my W was calling me delusional and out of control and unsafe with the kids, the next minute she was hugging me and crying about the holidays. I can’t deal with whatever is going on in her brain. I am 100% focused on my future. The constant mixed messages will drive you crazy until you stop tuning into that frequency. Or think, “hmmm curious I wonder why he’s doing that? Meh I think I’ll just go about enjoying my day.”
Hope, I know it’s hard but choosing not to participate in his blame n’ shame sessions will help prevent these emotional hangovers. Eg. “I’ve apologised for my mistakes and flaws In the past. I’m not interested in discussing our marriage since it is now over. My only concern is for D4’s safety and happiness moving forward.”
He may have gotten angry with you because your acceptance and accomodation of his request disrupts his narrative of you being the bad guy. He needs to continue justifying his decision to cheat and leave by vilifying you. So your niceness makes him feel uncomfortable because it reminds him that he did very wrong by you. The guilt and shame he feels gets projected onto you because he lacks the coping skills to deal with these emotions.
Thanks guys. I agree with much of what’s being said here. I do think that when I’m able to be rational and reasonably accommodating to him it does disrupt his driving narrative and justifications and that angers him. It’s all so backwards, really. I’m focusing on my detachment momentum, and I’m struggling today. It feels like when H picks up on my semi detached nature it freaks him out a bit. It feels like the ups and downs and twists and turns of the rollercoaster that is Hs mixed messages are getting closer together. Things seems to flip from one extreme to another so quickly, it is making me somewhat crazy. I am further along on my detachment path than ever, but I still have a long way to go. All of this doesn’t affect me as intensely as it once did, but it still effects me.
This week has been ALL over the place. On Tuesday we got into a minor parenting disagreement. I stayed extremely calm and spoke my piece, He got defensive as usual. When he tried to shut down the conversation, I just said ok and didn’t push it (huge 180 for me) and he then inevitably picked the topic back up. When he accused me of being patronizing I calmly validated and apologized that he felt that way and assured him that was not my intention. I handled it really well. After he left he was texting me about small nothings and then this:
I hate leaving your place feeling like this. I really appreciate your want to be successfully communicative. I want that too. Admittedly I was unnecessarily defensive. If course you want her safe I know and appreciate that. Thanks for being patient with me
UNPRECEDENTED. I was amazed. I let him know I appreciated it. The next morning he texted me:
Good morning girls! [completely unnecessary stuff about D4 from the previous day] Have a great day!
I mean...what??
He was texting me random unnecessary stuff unrelated to D4 or anything really while I was work yesterday.i stayed last night up until D4s bedtime and when I got home he pinched my waist and commented on my appearance (???????) and leaned in to me so I could smell him. Then after bedtime he got all serious and asked me about the financial disclosure papers I still need to serve. AM I INSANE? This is so so so confusing. Right?? Am I nuts?
Insanity. You are getting a little window into the chaos in his brain! Scary, isn't it???? As hard as it is to be the recipient of all that confusion, sometimes I imagine how hard it must be to have the one with all of that happening inside. It has got to be awful.
I feel like when you get these mixed messages it makes DBing and detaching so, so hard... but probably more important than ever. Do your best to just let it flow over you.
But, you are NOT nuts.You are doing a great job... keep it up. you got this!!
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
He really is confused isn't he? I'm imagining how this would play out if acted out physically like in a dance or something. He would be creeping towards you on tiptoes, then when you turn round, shoving you away and running. It's kind of how toddlers behave isn't it? They ask you for hugs and reassurance and kindness and then when you've given it to them they push you away because they strive for independence. Toddlers are a WHOLE lot easier to understand than spouses though Stepping back and observing kindly from a distance seems like the best approach for you though, I really liked the post on another thread about seeing the other person's actions as if they were in a novel. Personally I sometimes find myself thinking about the whole dramatic mess as being like a TV soap opera. So many cliches said, so many cliched scenarios enacted. But you know there'll be another episode coming and that the story line will be resolved one way or another. I have a gut feeling you will end up reconciling for some reason, but you have to detach before that happens...
Thanks for reading and responding may and dilly. I’ve been feeling sad and exhausted and lonely and kind of spinning the last couple of days. It’s nice just to feel heard by some people who know how I’m feeling. Thank you.
I really really am focusing my conscious energy toward detaching, and trying to shake off the mind reading urges, etc. It almost feels like this kind of meta dilemma—like detaching isn’t something you can TRY to do, you almost have to detach from wanting detachment to achieve it. It’s a mind bender. Like how trying to remember a dream just pushes it further away. Or something like that. I don’t know, I’m tired, haha.
I really really am focusing my conscious energy toward detaching, and trying to shake off the mind reading urges, etc. It almost feels like this kind of meta dilemma—like detaching isn’t something you can TRY to do, you almost have to detach from wanting detachment to achieve it.
I was just thinking about this, Hope! Like I can really, really want to feel a higher level of detachment, but I think I have to allow my subconscious mind to do some of the work. I can't just want it a lot and force it to happen quickly, or at least it doesn't seem to work that way for me. Some of it is within my conscious control and some resists my control. And another level of detachment might just be on its own timeline, happening so slowly I can't notice the progress. Or maybe I'm just still not good enough at it. Ha.
Stepping back and observing kindly from a distance seems like the best approach for you though, I really liked the post on another thread about seeing the other person's actions as if they were in a novel. Personally I sometimes find myself thinking about the whole dramatic mess as being like a TV soap opera. So many cliches said, so many cliched scenarios enacted. But you know there'll be another episode coming and that the story line will be resolved one way or another. I have a gut feeling you will end up reconciling for some reason, but you have to detach before that happens...