Your post above really made me happy-- you deserve to have those feelings of being valued and accepted and loved among friends and family. I hope you and your eldest enjoyed some nice time together too.
Originally Posted by AlisonUK
And I'd like to know how to bring that better, happier, more honest and interesting and okay-with-being-real-and-vulnerable self to my marriage, but I don't know how.
The only thing I would say to this is-- it is OK that you can't see the way on this right now. Who could??? You've gone through so much and are still going through and processing all of it. It's OK. Give yourself a break and time and be patient with yourself. You deserve that.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
A more or less peaceful week. We had a hard time at the weekend. Something and nothing. I over-reacted over a minor thing, he over-reacted to that, and we were caught up in an argument before either of us knew it. I think we both de-escalated pretty well and tried to make peace and be affectionate afterwards. I think it probably scares both of us senseless when there's conflict. We're so scared of it, and each other, and so untrusting.
I also think we're both exhausted with how difficult piecing can be.
H is trying - I can see that he is - and it must be frustrating for him to live with someone so cold and untrusting. I don't monitor his whereabouts or look at his phone - I don't want a marriage like that and he EA was a long time ago now - but if he's late back from work it is a sneaky thought I have, and I find that difficult to deal with, and he's wary of having to supply constant reassurance when today, and for a long time, he's been nothing but faithful to me. I don't think I am unreasonable to have trouble trusting, and I don't think he's unreasonable to be weary of not being trusted. It's just how it is right now.
I can see - and he's said as much - that all the feelings I have about getting back together not being quite as I imagined and not what I signed up for - he's having too. We talked a bit about MC. I asked him what he felt would be different this time, and he said he wasn't interested in trying to convince me to go against my own judgment - that I'd have to make my own decision. That's fair enough, I suppose. I think I was seeking reassurance but it isn't really in his power to give it.
I've dialled back on my plans for GAL this week. I think I was avoiding the house, and exhausting myself in the process. There needs to be a balance. I know I am prone to over-work as a way of avoiding painful things, and I don't want to replace GAL with work (working more moderately and healthily was one of my 180s). I also think that H and I need to have some fun together. We've been concentrating on the conflicts we have - around parenting - and that is difficult and necessary work. But we haven't been doing much to enjoy each other.
I have consciously made the effort to be a little more open with him this week. I am receiving some instruction and teaching in my spiritual practice and I have never, never spoken to him about it. We don't share a faith. That's totally fine with me - he gives me freedom in this and privacy too, and I have no wish to convert him to my way of thinking at all. But it is very important to me and I don't talk to him about it at all - not a bit - because I have such a fear of being judged. I told him a little bit about it this week and put some of my instruction dates on the family calendar. He noticed and asked me about them. it was tentative, but it was something.
Alison, what I really like about you sharing a bit about your spiritual practice is that it is somewhat neutral ground for the two of you.
What I mean by that is that it isn't marred by negative memories for the two of you. It isn't triggering. But at the same time it is something deeply personal and importantant to you, so it is a form of you opening up to him, and a form of him listening to you.
You aren't at the stage of sharing emotions, but you can share this right now and he can see you in a new light of who you are as a whole person. This seems very positive, and appropriately cautious.
Alison, what I really like about you sharing a bit about your spiritual practice is that it is somewhat neutral ground for the two of you.
What I mean by that is that it isn't marred by negative memories for the two of you. It isn't triggering. But at the same time it is something deeply personal and importantant to you, so it is a form of you opening up to him, and a form of him listening to you.
You aren't at the stage of sharing emotions, but you can share this right now and he can see you in a new light of who you are as a whole person. This seems very positive, and appropriately cautious.
I didn't think of it that way Yail, but you're right. It is something that is mine and not ours and has no bad memories attached. A lot of our lives together, memories, parenting, work - they're all to do with feeling wounded in some ways. This is something quite separate. He's a very New Atheist type (which is fine) and is sometimes very scathing and critical about people with faith. That's a reason why I've never told him about my own practice. But I guess I did like his skeptical and critical spirit once and he must have once valued my more curious and imaginative one.
We did have a chat at the weekend and came to the conclusion that each was afraid of being judged by the other. I do feel - or fear - that all the things about me that make me different from him and uniquely myself (my interest in sex, my sensitive emotions, my sociability, my empathy, my willingness to try on crazy ideas now and again) aren't things he delights in, but things he's irritated and disapproving of. What I didn't know what that he felt the same way. I think it was a bit of a leap for him to even tell me that - to be able to put it into words in a way that I'd understand, and also to dare to tell me. We are extremely different but that isn't news, and the differences did work once - when we had respect for each other's unique ways of doing things. That lack of acceptance of difference has been playing our most markedly in our parenting (I'm more relationship focused, more nurturing - he's more about structure and routine and discipline - though we've both moved a little more to the middle over the last year) but runs through lots of aspects of our lives.
It's kind of sad really. Neither of us feeling delighted in or cherished or even just accepted for who we are.
Alison: I see plenty of hope for you, maybe stop seeing the negatives so often? I'm so proud of you for showing that vulnerability, you cannot piece without it. And each of you telling the other that you're afraid of judgement, that is also vulnerability from both of you, which is huge.
How about you focus on celebrating the differences? Tell him each day one thing you value him for, and ask him to do the same. You're so focused on protection, it makes it hard to build warmth. I know it takes two, but someone has to start and clearly you're the more emotionally intelligent one!
Any progress on MC? I think EFT would be a great approach for you both, it's evidence based and more about building attachment than raking over the past. I do think it would be easier to do all this with help instead of muddling on through alone.
Alison: I see plenty of hope for you, maybe stop seeing the negatives so often? I'm so proud of you for showing that vulnerability, you cannot piece without it. And each of you telling the other that you're afraid of judgement, that is also vulnerability from both of you, which is huge.
How about you focus on celebrating the differences? Tell him each day one thing you value him for, and ask him to do the same. You're so focused on protection, it makes it hard to build warmth. I know it takes two, but someone has to start and clearly you're the more emotionally intelligent one!
Any progress on MC? I think EFT would be a great approach for you both, it's evidence based and more about building attachment than raking over the past. I do think it would be easier to do all this with help instead of muddling on through alone.
Dilly - you made me laugh. I know for sure I'm a pessimist - H has told me this, other people have told me this. It's a self protective mechanism that really really went up a gear after BD and it is hurting my marriage these days.
No progress on MC. I'm just not ready yet. I am still with my IC and I want to concentrate on that. But I have been clear with H about that without blaming him. I know it sounds like a bad idea - and it might be - but I think I have a right to go at my pace and protect myself and get my head in the right place before starting something like this. I think I need to be in the place where I can bring myself to believe my H and I am not there yet, though I am working on it.
This is my weekly update.
So - another good week - mainly quiet. I've been working at home a lot, which I enjoy, but have been out two nights for GAL which seems like a good enough balance for me right now. There's been real friendship there this week. I have been verbally expressing gratitude more, which I can see makes a difference to him. He seems to really really want to please me with acts of service (which aren't my love language) and when I act pleased or grateful (words of affirmation, I guess?), that encourages him to be affectionate (physical touch) and want to spend time with me (quality time). That's a good thing to know.
It's also been a good long time - several weeks - since he's done his weird angry sarcasm or impressions antics. He's STILL incredibly defensive and it's wearing - I asked him if he'd put fuel in the car a few days ago, and rather than answering yes or no (so I knew if I needed to go out and do it - it's easier in the evening than in rush hour traffic in the morning) he had a rant about how many times I'd brought the car back to the house needing fuel. I tried to hug him and said something like 'hey, I was just asking you,' and he (gently - this wasn't physical abuse) pushed me away and said 'you have a dig at me, and watch how hard I come back at you!' - in those moments he's like a different person. Completely possessed by this weird angry spirit that I am coming to understand really has nothing to do with me or what I've said. Clearly there's something in him that can't bear even the thought of criticism. While I still see that, and while he's unable to own it and work with it, I don't see the point of MC, where I probably would want to bring up aspects of his behaviour that aren't okay with me then pay for the privilege of sitting and listening to his incoherent ranting.
But this is one small thing and the good thing is that I don't feel I am walking on eggshells or avoiding saying what I want to say in order to contain that weird angry hostile alien that takes over his body sometimes. I don't feel afraid of that person any more. I just leave the room.
Alison: what a positive update Maybe there's hope for you breaking your pessimistic habits after all! I found it interesting that you said pessimism is protective, hmmm maybe that helps me understand my H better as he's always been extraordinarily pessimistic about many things and got worse as he's got older. Being optimistic has its own downsides, but I'm not working to change that too much about myself any time soon, I like being optimistic!
I loved the way you took the effort to express gratitude for his acts of service and use words of affirmation, those are both things I have been working to find opportunities to express towards H as it seems to make a big difference to him. Difficult when you're busy being dark, but I've done it a few times lately. They do say you should be your spouse's biggest cheerleader! It doesn't come naturally to me, but I've practiced a lot on friends lately, and I can see H relaxes when I do it with him. And then your H reciprocates with your LLs, fantastic! Keep up that great work The criticism thing: that sounds very much like my H too, even a hint of criticism (which ironically he's so good at dishing out) makes him super defensive. Maybe part of piecing is learning how to rephrase what you need in such a way that it couldn't possibly be interpreted as critical? I'm trying to work out how that would work out in the fuel situation, maybe over the top niceness?! 'I would be so very appreciative if you could spare 5 minutes to fill up the car for me, it would make such a big difference to my day tomorrow and while you're gone I can run a bath/make a cup of tea for you to say thank you' If he likes being appreciated for his acts of service, then rewarding small things like that might make him likely to do it automatically next time without being asked? Just a suggestion! My H used to fill up the car and I was NEVER appreciative, I do regret that nowadays and if he does something small like that for me now then I do make a big fuss of thanking him and it does make a difference!
Yes - my pessimism really is self protective. If I expect the worse, then perhaps I will never feel the bottom-dropping-out-of-my-world utter shock, hurt and disbelief that I felt when I discovered H in an EA. I know I still am feeling the effects of that. I don't know how the LBS on here who are dealing with ongoing PA manage it. I generally assume the worst of him now until proved otherwise and it does cause damage. I think I still have hurt to process: not really about H - I understand why he did what he did and it's all very human and predictable. I guess I just have a hard time coming to terms with how vulnerable committing to someone makes you. That's still incredibly difficult for me to deal with.
And yes - it is always better to butter H up with lavish praise when asking him to do something. The thing is, I rarely ask him to do anything as he reacts horribly when I do. In this case, I was only asking him for information - if he hadn't have put fuel in the car I would have gone out and done it myself without complaint. I guess in this case I could just go out and check rather than speaking to him, which seems sad - but I do generally avoid asking him for anything if I can possibly help it and it is as a result of his unpleasant behaviour. He's very childish in lots of ways.
I have an easy week work wise this week so I have been getting out and about a lot. H and I have penciled in a day this week to spend together as we're both off work on the same day and the kids are at school (hardly ever happens). I am looking forward to it. Apart from the small things that I mention in the updates I give here now and again, things are so much better than they were a year ago. I keep bearing in mind May's words about being accepting of where I am and forgiving of my own inability to trust and let go just for the time being. I hope that changes as I think I will be happier in myself if it does, regardless of what H does or doesn't do.
It does sound like a really good week. I'm so glad for you.
Originally Posted by AlisonUK
No progress on MC. I'm just not ready yet. I am still with my IC and I want to concentrate on that. But I have been clear with H about that without blaming him. I know it sounds like a bad idea - and it might be - but I think I have a right to go at my pace and protect myself and get my head in the right place before starting something like this. I think I need to be in the place where I can bring myself to believe my H and I am not there yet, though I am working on it.
This is really fantastic, Alison. You know what you need and you aren't there yet and I completely agree that you shouldn't start till you are ready to start. The fact that you're working on it getting there and have been able to communicate that to your H is really great. To me, really knowing yourself and what you need in this (or any) situation is an enormous plus and truly isn't easy to do.
Originally Posted by AlisonUK
But this is one small thing and the good thing is that I don't feel I am walking on eggshells or avoiding saying what I want to say in order to contain that weird angry hostile alien that takes over his body sometimes. I don't feel afraid of that person any more. I just leave the room.
I also think this is really wonderful. You've taken the power back from him to hurt or upset you (and, my guess is by doing this, are also helping to extinguish the behavior because he isn't getting a response from you anymore).
The story about the fuel and his over-the-top reaction makes me think he is really in such a difficult place. Can you imagine being so, so insecure and frightened of anything that would be construed as criticism that you can't even answer a simple question about whether or not you fueled up the car? Yikes. Honestly, I know that it is awful to be on the receiving end of that, but hopefully the time you're giving both of you to get in a better place for MC before you start will also help him to relax and let go and be able to hear what you're really saying, not with all the layers of insecurity and fear and reactionary aggression.
You are on your own path, at your own pace, and it sounds like able to see the progress. That is wonderful.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Gosh Alison, I misinterpreted the whole fuel thing, yes he is far too defensive isn't he? And that was not an appropriate response from him. I wonder when things like that happen how good you both are at repairing? I read somewhere that it's not that important what the conflict is or how it goes, it's how you both repair afterwards which is most important, signalling that yes, something awkward or painful occurred between you but that you are still there for the other person regardless. You're doing fantastically, I agree with everything may said. Keep up the good work and you'll both be ready for MC before you know it
Maybe there's hope for you breaking your pessimistic habits after all! I found it interesting that you said pessimism is protective, hmmm maybe that helps me understand my H better as he's always been extraordinarily pessimistic about many things and got worse as he's got older. Being optimistic has its own downsides, but I'm not working to change that too much about myself any time soon, I like being optimistic!