Drh, I like your attitude, very well done with your current approach. I am assuming she is not in the MBR? If it continues to be too stressful, at some point you might want to discuss with her accelerating her plan to move out. I'd even entertain asking her to leave since she is openly in a PA. That will do two things.
1) It will show her that you are ready to move on 2) It will make her put up or shut up
Do not underestimate the power of #2. I know in my own sitch, calling my W's bluff really made her stop and consider what she was doing. And it caused her to question how committed she really was to her walkaway plan.
BUT, do not do #2 with the expectation that it will wake her up. You have to be 100%, or close to it, sure you are ready to move on.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Me: 38 W:31 Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4 M: 10 years T:12 years BD:Jan 3, 2018 W moved out: Apr 13,2018 Filed for D: Jun 2018 D final: Sep 2019
So it's been a while since I've posted but here's an update.
I have been doing 180s and detaching and have accepted the marriage is over.
I have two kids aged 15 and 13.
WW is seeing other man still - he broke it off with her a couple of weeks ago. She still lives at the house with me but we sleep in separate rooms.
She has been acting out because of withdrawal symptoms. Her plan was to stay living in the home until next spring where she would move in with him.
Both my kids are in therapy.
Now OM reconnected with her but she wants to move into her own place so I will buy her out in a few months. She never lived by herself and married me as soon as she left home.
She thinks it will be easier on the kids if she moves into an apartment first and then moves in with OM.
If you followed my story you'll remember I drafted up a separation agreement. It stated that in order for her to live at the house she would need to buy me out but in order to afford this she'd need to get a better job. There was no end date to do this as that would have put unnecessary pressure on her. At the time we signed and notarized this agreement, OM was not yet in the picture.
Within two weeks of notarizing the document she had met OM and decided she didn't want to abide by the terms of the agreement. Ultimately she did get a better job recently. But now she has lost all interest in the house and refers to it as "my house" and the only thing that interests her is "getting the equity"
She insists she did not cheat on me despite me showing her evidence of the hotel room and the name of the dude before she met OM. I said you're a married woman living in the marital home pretending she's single. I don't care if you told me you separated before you did the deed - there is a court of law and the court of public opinion and the court of law takes precedent.
Told you that should you should have burned that agreement and it was worthless.
Get a good lawyer and try to get as much custody as possible. Your W has some serious issues.
Glad to see your kids are in therapy.
The agreement is void anyway. Apparently she took it to a lawyer who told her I was being unreasonable and that she couldn't afford to buy me out so I'd have to buy her out or sell the home.
She was the one who asked for a separation agreement. We went back and forth until she was happy with it. then we had it notarized.
There is no agreement in place other than we go to mediation and I buy out her share of the house. We have agreed 50/50 child custody. I'll accept nothing less.
Just to add she accused me of manipulating her with the agreement which is simply not true. At that point, she did not make enough money to buy me out but she wanted me to leave. I told her the only way you can stay in the home is to buy me out.
So getting a job was a prerequisite but it was the only way forwards. I was willing to leave my home so the kids could be spared the trauma of leaving their home.
There was nothing about the agreement that was manipulative but as it stands it's gone.
She actually had the nerve to tell me that most men would have done the honorable thing and left the home and let the wife have everything!!! I said so you wanted me to leave the home that I helped pay for and made more money than you and go live in a one bedroom apartment and see my kids 20% of the time? What exactly is there in this for me?
I've studied Sandi's threads on the differences between a wayward wife and a walkaway wife and thought I would list the things I have observed that Sandi has talked about.
My marriage of 18 years ended last September. We are both in our early 40s. There are things I could and wished I had done differently and for a time after the "separation" I tried to do 180s and give my wife space. My wife was a sweet, gentle soul who would help anyone until she cheated on me - aided and abetted by her friend and sister. We have two teenage children and currently have an IHS.
Sandi mentions in one of her posts that "I am convinced there have been extremely few who really "get" the ugliness that is born in that cold, empty, place inside the woman who suddenly crosses the line into a state of waywardness. She is lost to her new found feelings, which are all based on what is wrong. Wrong feelings, wrong facts, wrong truths, wrong dreams, wrong people, wrong standards.......everything is just wrong."
I am one of those who do get the ugliness. Sandi is spot on when she says that "husbands wonder if "surely something has fell on her that is the "cause" of all this terrible behavior and attitude."
Remember that waywards want choice without consequence and action without accountability.
I wanted to expand on Sandi's list of "symptoms" with my own observations and would be glad of your contributions to see the similarities and perhaps strategies for dealing with these issues.
*She is not the girl you married. She no longer feels the same and won't act the same.
- this is so true. I have seen my wife's personality change almost overnight. It's as if some strange force has taken over her.
She has told me herself, "I'm not the girl you married." It's weird to not only read what Sandi said but also here it from the mouth of my WW.
Script? I think so. Shortly after I busted her cheating she texted me and told me "I'm a single woman."
*No matter what her values and spiritual beliefs have been in the past, and regardless of the high standard of morals she held, they have temporarily vanished. For how, nobody knows.
- this is the part I struggle with. How could someone who was a Christian throw all her morals away? What part of her brain has been short circuited? A month after my WW cheated on me, she was hanging out with her sister going to night clubs and wearing provocative dresses. While shopping for a dress to buy for her sister's birthday, my 12 year old daughter asked her what kind of dress she wanted to buy and her mother told her she "wanted to buy something sexy."
- she openly discusses her paramour with our kids and talks about buying a house with him
- before she told our kids about her paramour, she was lying to them about her comings and goings saying she was hanging out with a friend. Some days she would see OM straight from work and not get home till after midnight and didn't bother to provide the kids with an evening meal. Those were "fend for self" nights. I add that this didn't happen often but it was enough to worry me.
*She does not want to be fixed. Nobody can fix her, especially you.
-Her father walked out on her when she was two for another woman. She admitted to me she was a romantic and in love with the idea of being in love.
*She is in complete rebellion, and will defy you when you make demands, threats or give ultimatums.
- this is completely true. Everything is "none of my business" when I ask her about something. Yes, I get the forum's rules are to leave her be and let her do her own thing.
We signed a separation agreement last year and before the ink was even dry she broke it by telling me she didn't want to go through with its terms and conditions that she agreed to - because she had met the new guy. As it was she did end up getting a better job so she could buy me out though the situation has changed and now she wants me to buy her out.
*Her heart has turned cold and selfish. All she thinks about is what makes her feel good at the moment.
-selfishness is an understatement here. Her emotions are what makes her decisions. I was the one who got both my girls into therapy while she did nothing for them and told me they'd get used to it and adapt. She has absolutely no shame whatsoever,
-she spends money wining and dining with OM. Our finances are co mingled and I am slowly separating them.
- she told me she has checked out of the marital home, only coming here to sleep. She rarely cooks at all. But I caught her taking a rice pot with her on her way to OM's home. So she doesn't mind cooking for OM but won't cook at home because in her own words, she's "checked out."
- when we signed the separation agreement she told me "but what if I fall in love?" - in other words, she can break the separation agreement if she meets someone. At that time, she was going to buy me out the house. Her statements to me: "Why do you need 3 bedrooms; Why can't the kids share bunk beds; why don't you live in a nearby town; it would be weird if you lived in the same town" and the kicker - "How can I move on if *you're* still here?" - Excuse me? you would never have got the house if I hadn't got a good paying job and I make more than you.
*You cannot change her mind, influence, convince, or sway her by talk.
- this is so true and this quote summarizes how I feel: "Most people, when directly confronted by evidence that they are wrong, do not change their point of view or course of action but justify it even more tenaciously. Even irrefutable evidence is rarely enough to pierce the mental armor of self-justification."
*Her brain has lost all capacity to use logic. Therefore, you cannot reason with her.
- as above. Since logic and reason have gone, I try appealing to her emotions. She tells me she feels regret but better to get it all over with now so she doesn't have to feel it further down the road.
*She cannot be trusted as long as she is wayward, and until she goes through the complete withdrawal stage from OM/A.
- I don't think there will ever be a withdrawal but she has told me on a few occasions, "why don't you trust me?!" - why would I trust a cheater who has betrayed her husband and children?
*She will cake eat whenever it suits her......if you allow it.
- this is perhaps one of the biggest ones of all - cake eating. She wants the security of the home and OM. She literally told me that she would be happy if I could be friends with OM.
When I read this forum I came across the part about the husband pulling away so I decided to do this. Shortly after the affair, her car broke down and she had to take the bus to work. She had the nerve to tell me "why didn't you pick me up from work" and I just looked at her and said "that's what a husband would do but since you fired me..."
I completely stopped doing all the little things for her that I used to like checking the oil levels in her car which she never did and doing her laundry.
I told her I would no longer allow her to come on trips and outings with me and my kids. She blew up at that and I told her that I will not have her sit in the car with me and play happy families while she is getting some on the side. Cake eating? I think so. She is perfectly welcome to take the kids on trips without me.
In the beginning, I decided I would be the one to leave and she would buy me out. I made this decision because I didn't want the kids to lose their home. She said I could still come over for Christmas and holidays but my coworker who's been through divorce says this isn't because she wants the family together but because she doesn't want to split the holidays with you.
When we discussed her giving me some monetary value for the furnishings we had bought together over the years she got angry and said she would give me nothing for the sofa as it was crap - same for the TV stand and other items.
Sandi mentions the friends part..."Many times, the WW will drop the bomb and hit the H with, "but I hope we will always be friends" without hardly taking a breath. At that particular time, she is "done" and sees herself moving on, but she wants his full cooperation and no trouble. She is "soothing" his feelings by offering her great consolation prize of friendship. Maybe even BFF!"
This was absolutely true of my situation and I told her that once we're divorced there will be no friendship. You left me for OM and you want me to be friends? Recently I told her that when she moves out she can't just stop by like she hasn't left. When she leaves she really leaves and she doesn't get to come back.
*She wants the best part of the M and the A. She gets the H for security and OM for her emotional needs.
- In her own words, she can't afford to leave right now. She sees OM about twice a week.
*She is living in a fantasy world. She wants the dream to continue.
- this is very true. We have shared Google calendars for dr's apts and such and for a particular date next year there was her "move in with OM date" - she's only known him for seven months and has already decided he's the one.
She told me "I'd likely prefer a guy who has children and doesn't want anymore, because I don't, either."
*She will blame her H for every thing wrong in her life. His apology does not erase her resentment. She will totally rewrite their marital history. She holds on to her anger toward him b/c it fuels her negative view of the M and justifies her present actions.
- I am the big bad wolf - and I told her i am responsible for half the unhappiness in our marriage but she chose to cling on to resentment and bitterness and in time, as Sandi mentioned, the three veins of waywardness manifested - disrespect, rebellion and resentment. I didn't see it then, but a unique type of disrespect was her shortness with me. Whenever I wanted to talk to her about something she would say curtly, "I'm busy; I'm reading; I'm watching something."
* Her common sense is gone and she only operates from her emotions.
- common sense has gone completely out the window and it's true, WW do operate only from their emotions and it's whatever makes them feel good in that particular moment.
*She is willing to risk everything and throw everything away for her addiction when the A is at its thickest.
- yes, she is willing to see her children only half the time, and throw her morals and reputation away for a man she's only known for six months. Did I mention the part where a psychic told her she wouldn't be "single" for long?
In one of her texts she told me that she "knows her choice comes with a price."
*She sees her H as the enemy.
- I feel like public enemy #1.
*She has to suffer some type of loss (due to her decisions) in order to shake her from her fantasy fog.
- there have been losses but none of them have cracked her hardened heart. Sandi mentions that it might take a physical separation (not yet happened) or even a divorce to shake them from their fog.
* She is on a roller coaster and will not act the same every single day. Her emotions will be up, down, and all over the place....but never on an even keel.
- this is very true. She told me she has regrets and sometimes she cries but it's not enough to stop her course of action. Other days, she'll whistle to herself and act as if everything is going swimmingly well while both my children are in therapy and don't understand why mommy is behaving this way.
Yep drh, Sandi is spot on...... Because she's been there done that. Almost all WWs follow this script and description.
My W is a Sunday school teacher. She never stopped going to church. When I discovered her EA she immediately said she wanted a D. I think part of that was to scare me into backing off and letting her cake eat. Within 2 weeks of BD, where I had discovered messages stating her and OM had discussed things and exchanged pictures, things and pictures his GF wouldn't aligned approve of, and after denying anything but innocent exchanges, she was in the guest bathroom taking nude pictures for OM. And even after he ended it because he chose his GF over my W, she was on the prowl for OM#2 after a few days of mourning loss of OM#1.
All the time playing house with me and my daughter. Wanting her cake and eat it too. OM#1 was an ex con, unemployed living with his elderly father. Potential OM#2 was a security guard making a little over minimum wage. So she needed me to maintain her lifestyle, but as Sandi says, she needed the OM for emotional and ego boosting.
The way I turned things around was by not trying to turn things around. By focusing on me. And by doing things that started to burst her bubble. I see you've had a lot of "talks" with her. Talk does nothing. You have to show action. I started to support her "plan". I supported her finding a job. I spoke to a D attorney and began to plan to file for D myself. I started looking at putting the house on the market (her plan was for me to keep the house so our daughter's home would not change). That also let her know that playing house would be impossible post D. She asked me at one point where I planned to live and I told her with a friend of mine. This burst her bubble about our daughter living with me full-time, and spending the night at her new place occasionally. I insisted that we'd do 50/50 custody.
Bursting the bubble, taking her cake, shattering her vision of how things would work slowly shook her from her wayward fog. I remember when she questioned me selling the house, I told her "it isn't fair that you get to move on to a new life, but expect me not to". This made her realize that I was going to move on too. And she could see the actions I was taking were going to allow me to do that.
I guess what I'm saying is that the key was that I was doing things to show her I was not going to cater to her wants and wishes, that I was ok with moving on without her, and that I was going to do what I thought was best and wanted. Regardless of how she felt about it!! And with the prospects of the other men she was choosing, her life was not going to be what she dreamed it would be.
When the LBH starts to stand up for himself, starts to show that he is willing to move on, and his actions show all of that, the WW's respect for him starts to return. This is why that get mad and sad when the cake starts to go away. Because they may not like you or what you are doing, but by golly they will have to respect you for it. And when respect returns....eventually so to will the attraction. Even if they don't want it to.
Last edited by Steve85; 08/02/2002:41 AM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
