I want to start off by saying that I am really sorry you are going through this right now and I want to commend you on your efforts to become Scotty 2.0. Self care is really important right now.
I hope now that you have taken it to heart that anything like the Pastor meeting which is pressure is going to work against you. Because of past behaviors, childhood hurts, brain chemicals and hormones she is sure she is doing the right thing in the pursuit of her happiness. The more people try to tell her she is doing the wrong thing the more she is going to want to prove them wrong.
It's very common for your friends to tell you want you want to hear because they care about you and don't want to see you in pain. I'm not telling you to give up hope but what I am telling you is that important to move forward. Detachment becomes very important and grieving the end of the marriage. Know that this is happening and it isn't happening to you. Everything is happening exactly the way it's supposed to and your likely not to know why until years down the road.
The important thing is you are learning from your mistakes and and becoming a better man which is a gift to the world and some woman down the road. That woman could very well be your current wife. Only time will tell!
So much has been happening. Definitely mixed signals and i have to remind myself that I need to believe none of what she says and only half of what I see.
My coach said that I need to start to talk about separation now, prior to the divorce. And that I need to work to read the co-parenting book and share something’s that I’m learning.
Arguably that blew up tonight.
After the kids went to bed I was reading the coparenting book and she came down. I asked her if she had read to a point in the book where they discuss schedules for the kids. 7-7 or 3-2-2. She said that wasn’t in there. I referenced a book that talked about how living in two homes negatively impacts kids and how I thought limiting transitions might help them. She said a week is long time to go without seeing them.
I asked if she had thought more about separation and she got defensive and angry fast. I think she thought I meant separation as opposed to divorce because she said she didn’t want to discuss it at this time with her big day tomorrow. I apologized and just said that it was hard for me not to talk and think about the future when I read this book.
She said I wasn’t going to change her mind and i wasn’t going to manipulate her again like i always do. She said she’s stayed together for the last 4 years for the kids and she’s done. I again apologized.
She then followed up on it and asked again what i meant by separation and I told her that I was thinking this was something we should get figured out sooner than later and asked if we should do it before the divorce to get them used to seeing each of us alone. I think maybe at that point she understood that I wasn’t saying that I was trying to halt the divorce. She said we could talk about it one night this weekend and that she needed to go to bed, then she walked off.
She continues to throw mixed signals but she is not backing down and I don’t think she will. She believes that I am controlling and she is asserting herself. This will have to run its course, we will have to separate and go down the path towards divorce, maybe she’ll come to her senses before it’s final.
The more I think about the whole situation the more I think the EA was the culprit. It made her feel alive and excited; she’s looking for that high again. My heart breaks for my kids, this is such selfish behavior and juvenile. It’s very sad.
I am just going to give you my opinion on some things in your post above.
She is not giving you mixed signals and she made it crystal clear she wants a divorce.
Either your coach is wrong or that's not what he meant about sharing something you learned. When you said living in two houses negatively impacts the kids. That's manipulation on your part and totally pisses her off.
I don't know why you separate in advance and why you wouldn't try to keep things as normal for the kids as possible. If you feel you must separate maybe wait until school is over.
I think you need to work on validating those conversations and not apologizing.
Vapo is right about the ea and I detailed in my previous post what is going on with her. I was watching the show Parenthood one night and the mother on the show was giving her daughter some advice on marriage. She said the most important thing in a marriage is foregiveness. Your w can't get there right now. Maybe she will someday.
I have been listening to Peter Crone podcasts lately and he explains that if you had the exact same experiences your W had in life you would want the same outcome as her. Life happens exactly the way it's supposed to happen.
My coach said that I need to start to talk about separation now, prior to the divorce. And that I need to work to read the co-parenting book and share something’s that I’m learning.
Arguably that blew up tonight.
Yeah that was a HUGE mistake. Like LH said, she ALREADY sees you as controlling and manipulating, so what is she going to think about you telling her the two of you need to S before D? More control and manipulation. BACK OFF!!!!!! I don't know how you could have missed this here and in the book but you've got to give her time and space and leave her the H alone. That means letting HER drive the entire D process. If she needs something from you then you provide it, period. That's all you do.
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I referenced a book that talked about how living in two homes negatively impacts kids
That's more manipulation on your part. You can't "nice" her back, you can't "mean" her back, you can't "reason" her back and you can't "negotiate" her back. Leave her be.
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She said we could talk about it one night this weekend and that she needed to go to bed, then she walked off.
That is EXACTLY what YOU should be doing! She approaches you about D terms you tell her you need time to think about it and then you leave the room.
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She continues to throw mixed signals
Agree with LH on this too, there are no mixed signals here.
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My heart breaks for my kids, this is such selfish behavior and juvenile.
I don't know your full history but if you really have been controlling and manipulative throughout the M then she's just trying to escape a toxic situation.
Originally Posted by Vapo
Dude, the EA was not the culprit. EA was a symptom.
Exactly. The EA was her way of escaping what she sees as a toxic R. Believing the EA is the reason for everything gives you a pass on the hard work that you need to do on yourself.
I want to expand more on what I think happened in your marriage and I think you are starting to realize it too. You most likely were controlling and manipulative but you didn’t realize it. In fact you were doing the best you could with the tools you had. Peter Crone has a quote that you can’t be held responsible for something that you weren’t aware of. That doesn’t mean it isn’t real to her it just means you have to forgive yourself. Keep working on being the man you want to be.
If you can drop all pressure which includes any manipulation she will notice. Now I think at this point she is most likely going to take the D train. Life is surely not going to work out the way she expects. There’s not a plethoras of men available who have it all figured out.
In one of MWD videos she pleads with WWs to give their spouses one more chance because they have finally figured it out. She said they go out to make great second husbands. If you can understand your role in the breakdown of the marriage and correct it I think you will be one of those husbands.
I'm not sure why you are so adamant to talk about separation, I saw that you mentioned discussing it with your coach but I don't have all the details. Are you wanting to separate and divorce your wife? If so, why wouldn't you take action to make that happen? Talking about it shows how indecisive you are about it.
Every LBS here says that their WAS is the stubborn and will not change their mind. Well if she was so set she would have filed for divorce already and been walking that path, not throwing mixed signals. Don't let things like this trip you up. This is where it pays to be detached, to have a clear mind.
Also, every LBS, including me, has hoped doing "something" will "bring her to her senses". But it's the doing nothing that will ultimately make her reconsider. Get out of her way. Stop dancing to get her to change her mind. Stop worrying if she'll change her mind. Start doing attractive things. Stop blaming this or blaming that. Blame yourself for what you could have done better and leave it at that. 90% of people are great at blaming others and dodging responsibility for what they did. Own your crap and fix it. The best apology is changed behavior. And quit verbally apologizing. She stayed together for the kids for the last 4 years and you apologize? I don't get it. You make yourself look bad and miss and opportunity to validate.
I am a firm believer in the LRT. Stop pursuing, GAL, wait and see. It is so simple and you W has qualified you for LRT. MWD says you should LRT when your spouse says they want a divorce and they are serious. So here you are, time for LRT. Telling your spouse about kids in 2 houses is pursuit. I don't read about any GAL or waiting and seeing. Seriously, take the pressure off. Take this time to brush up on 2-3 validating phrases. Stop inputting your thoughts when she isn't asking for. Read about good communication. Learn some new skills, restart old hobbies. You can do this and if you truly believe she is sending mixed signals than you HAVE to because it means she doesn't know what she wants. Quit focusing on what you can't control (EA) and focus on what you can. Don't take her bait. She is going to $h!+ test you. Are you strong enough to hear some annoying crap and not let it get to you? Can you pass the test?
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
As I continue to reflect I’ve come to realize that after my wife’s EA that began in 2105 and ended in early 2017, she was never the same again. She lost something with that EA that prevented her from coming back. I told her I forgave her but she never believed it. All her friends disowned her and she stopped trusting people. Somehow she blames me for all of it. She tends to blame and deny responsibility as a rule. With the young kids who are thriving and have no clue what’s going on, it makes me very sad. And though one might argue this could somehow miraculously turn around, I think the truth is that it won’t. It’s a tough reality.
I keep in mind some of the DB mantra’s. Believe none of what she says and half of what you see. No matter how dark it gets never give up. The newest one is if she reacts to kindness with anger, that’s her fear talking-she’s confused and trying to figure out what she wants. Also “if she wasn’t confused she would be blowing me off 100%.”
And finally, it’s always darkest before the dawn. But all told, I’m having a tough time believing it’s anything but 100% over.
As I continue to reflect I’ve come to realize that after my wife’s EA that began in 2105 and ended in early 2017, she was never the same again. She lost something with that EA that prevented her from coming back. I told her I forgave her but she never believed it. All her friends disowned her and she stopped trusting people. Somehow she blames me for all of it. She tends to blame and deny responsibility as a rule. With the young kids who are thriving and have no clue what’s going on, it makes me very sad. And though one might argue this could somehow miraculously turn around, I think the truth is that it won’t. It’s a tough reality.
I keep in mind some of the DB mantra’s. Believe none of what she says and half of what you see. No matter how dark it gets never give up. The newest one is if she reacts to kindness with anger, that’s her fear talking-she’s confused and trying to figure out what she wants. Also “if she wasn’t confused she would be blowing me off 100%.”
And finally, it’s always darkest before the dawn. But all told, I’m having a tough time believing it’s anything but 100% over.
As I continue to reflect I’ve come to realize that after my wife’s EA that began in 2105 and ended in early 2017, she was never the same again. She lost something with that EA that prevented her from coming back. I told her I forgave her but she never believed it. All her friends disowned her and she stopped trusting people. Somehow she blames me for all of it. She tends to blame and deny responsibility as a rule. With the young kids who are thriving and have no clue what’s going on, it makes me very sad. And though one might argue this could somehow miraculously turn around, I think the truth is that it won’t. It’s a tough reality.
I keep in mind some of the DB mantra’s. Believe none of what she says and half of what you see. No matter how dark it gets never give up. The newest one is if she reacts to kindness with anger, that’s her fear talking-she’s confused and trying to figure out what she wants. Also “if she wasn’t confused she would be blowing me off 100%.”
And finally, it’s always darkest before the dawn. But all told, I’m having a tough time believing it’s anything but 100% over.
