Scotty, you mentioned being obsessed with your W and M. I would venture to say 90% of us here can relate very well to that! Here's the thing, that's just pressure at a time she wants zero pressure. You've got to find something else to obsess about. A hobby, working out, your kids, something OTHER than your W. You've absolutely got to make that happen. Even if you think she doesn't know you're obsessing, she knows. WAS's have radar for that sort of thing. You have zero chance of reconciling until you completely let go, it's just one of the ironies of these situations we find ourselves in.
Originally Posted by ScottB
Two things happened over the past two days. First, my wife and i went out to dinner and she mentioned that her numbness started after her emergency hysterectomy eight years ago, as i mentioned yesterday. That’s when she began to numb out. The next day in church the oddest thing happened, a little girl was crying and my wife randomly picked her up and comforted her. I began to cry. My wife was so natural with this little girl.
First, quit trying to "diagnose" her. You do not know why, you will not know why, you will never know why. What happened happened and all you can hope for is some day when you die God will explain it all to you. Until then you won't ever know, so quit trying.
Second, do not ever cry in front of her. Cry in your car, cry in the bathroom with the door closed (as long as she can't hear you), go to church and cry, whatever. Anywhere but in front of her and the kids. You've got to be the rock. Don't be deluded into thinking this is a great time to show her your sensitive side, it's not.
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That’s when i came to reflect on my wife’s story in a way i hadn’t before. My wife was in her pain after her hysterectomy. An unrelenting pain that was dulling her life and her spirit. Alone at home. She had lost her uterus and no one came to her. She had lost the children she had planned to have. And she was alone trying to figure out her grief and pain. The man that loved her had moved on. He was gone and in his own world. He was fighting a different fight and didn’t see his wife. He left her. And then never spoke of it.
And if things couldn’t get worse, he put pressure on her for sex. Sex that to her did not feel like love. It was a needy sex to fill his holes and as he filled up she emptied herself out. They both knew that she could no longer get pregnant. This gave him license to desire more and this created a pain in her that deepened.
OK so you were insensitive to her needs. Log it in your mental notebook and move on with your DB'ing. Don't try to "fix" it now. She doesn't want you to be a sensitive loving H right now. You can't "nice" her back.
Okay, I spent the day going through all of my threads and all of my notes in my phone.
It did help give me perspective and I took notes as I went, which I will revisit. All of that allowed me to respond to the mediator over email to confirm the dates we were meeting, to tell her what I planned to bring, and to ask what else she might need. No way I could have done that at the start of the day. I'm not sure if that's a win or not but it seemed like a good thing.
I plan to talk to my wife about the meeting with the pastor to figure out whether or not she wants to keep it. I'll revisit how it got scheduled.
In going through my notes I also feel like i picked up on a pattern. My wife and I have a good couple of days and I lose my mind. In reading all about the last four years its quite evident that this is not all my fault, not by a long stretch. My wife over this time has also helped me become a much better version of myself, which is pretty awesome.
I used to be a lot more self-absorbed. I've learned what it means to be defensive and to control it - that was massive and game-changing for me. I've learned not to criticize my spouse (though I still need work on that). I've learned not to play devil's advocate with a spouse, I need to be their cheerleader. I've learned what contempt is and not to use it.
I've learned that I punish using the silent treatment and that I got to work not to be passive-aggressive. I've learned that I need to help around the house regardless of whether or not my spouse is a stay at home, so that she knows I love her.
I've learned about love languages. And most recently, I'm learning about feelings. I didn't know that I stopped feeling and why, I didn't know how all of that started, and I didn't understand how I treated my wife as an object at times - incredibly miserable, but next time I can do better.
I'm most excited and curious about learning to feel again. I killed my feelings when I was a kid as I struggled with loneliness and parents that were detached and unemotional. A girlfriend was the first to bring that back out in me, but in my marriage after years of contempt, criticism, and attacks, not to mention a job that was stressful at a ten and left me depressed, I shut all that feeling stuff down to save myself.
Well, now I'm working in IC to better understand feelings and emotions and I can tell a difference in my life. I'm able to have more fun and be happier, its just that the flip side [censored] and I have to get better at managing that.
Overall, a good useful day and hopefully i created a resource I can reflect back to from here. (I'm still not feeling 100%, still feeling anxiety and fear, but I'm feeling better).
From your last post you seem to hold a lot of guilt within you. I, too, felt the same way. I kept thinking about the mistakes I’ve made and the horrible things I’ve done to my W. If I could turn back the past, I would do everything differently.
Acknowledging your mistakes is important. However, do not beat yourself over it. It will only slow down your healing and growth. Forgive yourself and make amends. Listen to the others here, take the time off from your W and use it to process yourself. Your W needs that time and space too, in order to find her feelings and maybe find forgiveness for you.
Find your inner peace.
M: 28 W: 30 T: 2 years Married: Nov 2019 BD: 5 days after wedding (I know right?)
I forgot to add in this insane piece of information; my wife and I haven’t danced in the kitchen in 15 years. Somehow last night I was asked to dance and show the kids some moves. Happened again tonight. I’m it sure how it got started, probably the kids asking for some reason I guess but it was the first time I had touched her in 6 months, super weird. And first time we have danced in the kitchen since we got married.
I know it doesn’t mean anything but that is really screwing with my head. Again, I know it doesn’t mean anything. It was fun though.
I used to be a lot more self-absorbed. I've learned what it means to be defensive and to control it - that was massive and game-changing for me. I've learned not to criticize my spouse (though I still need work on that). I've learned not to play devil's advocate with a spouse, I need to be their cheerleader. I've learned what contempt is and not to use it.
I've learned that I punish using the silent treatment and that I got to work not to be passive-aggressive. I've learned that I need to help around the house regardless of whether or not my spouse is a stay at home, so that she knows I love her.
I've learned about love languages. And most recently, I'm learning about feelings. I didn't know that I stopped feeling and why, I didn't know how all of that started, and I didn't understand how I treated my wife as an object at times - incredibly miserable, but next time I can do better.
I'm most excited and curious about learning to feel again. I killed my feelings when I was a kid as I struggled with loneliness and parents that were detached and unemotional. A girlfriend was the first to bring that back out in me, but in my marriage after years of contempt, criticism, and attacks, not to mention a job that was stressful at a ten and left me depressed, I shut all that feeling stuff down to save myself.
Well, now I'm working in IC to better understand feelings and emotions and I can tell a difference in my life. I'm able to have more fun and be happier, its just that the flip side [censored] and I have to get better at managing that.
That's all great introspective stuff Scott, and you should by all means work on these things as a person. But NOT AS A HUSBAND. Not right now. Trying to 180 many of those things will just be R pressure on her at a time she wants zero pressure. I sense that you keep rephrasing the same arguments to try to justify pursuit behavior to yourself and to us. Pursuit never, ever works with a WAS my man.
LH: Hurts my detachment; At the same time, doesn't it strengthen the positive neuro pathways she has about us making her question things? I didn't ask her, I was asked.
AnotherStander: I was reflecting on all the things I've already done in terms of ways that I've changed that I'm grateful for, not necessarily saying I plan to work on all those things. Over the past four years, I've grown a ton because m wife has pushed me, and I'm grateful for that. The most recent piece is learning how to live with feelings - and I'm excited about that.
My wife's big issue was emotional connection. And working through all of her resentments, mostly related to being left at home after the baby and a traumatic pregnancy. In counseling, we never dove into that pregnancy and the pain around it which was a fail in retrospect.
Now after we danced and put the kids to bed, that's when you all would have been pissed at me. I was reading and she got a beer and offered to get me one, I said sure. And then she asked me about my day. I told her I had a weird day and then went on to tell her about it.
I told her that I had some weird coincidences occur over the past couple of days and that I had been praying a lot. I told her that it came to me with clarity the pain she went through after the birth of our daughter and how she felt left at home alone and how I made it worse, and I apologized for it. She began to cry quiet tears, just running down her cheeks. I also thanked her for helping me to become a better man and I went over some of the things I outlined above.
I told her it was hard to know what to share and what to hold in because of where we were, she asked me to share. I shared with her a poem I wrote recently about my grandmother and she cried as she read it. It was very intimate emotionally. She talked about her deceased grandfather and how she wishes she could see him again.
The night got a bit late and I said it was time to go to bed. As we fell asleep she said "Thank you for sharing tonight"
Now I know that is not our of Divorce Busting 101, I get it.
I also want to point out, because it's been brought up a lot, I am the Alpha in the house. This is a real struggle for my wife as she wants to be equal partners. I generally appear impervious to pain and insults, I seem uncaring and unemotional, I'm physically a bit imposing, and I have never shared my feelings or been able to get in touch with them. Through all our counseling my wife wanted to connect emotionally. I'm not going to let this happen every day, I understand that it would become weak if that were the case and appear as manipulation. But showing her a soft side that I'm working on, that she wants and letting her know its there has got to be good.
Tonight I have a men's club meeting and I'll probably stay out till 8:30p or 9p. If I get home at a reasonable hour I'll turn on a show to create a break from the intensity of yesterday's conversation.
I've really struggled with the meeting with the pastor tomorrow, but it's on so, for now, I'm planning on it, I'll pray and reflect on that through today. It strikes me as an extreme risk and I am worried about it but I didn't have space to bring it up last night, in regards to canceling it. Our pastor asked for the meeting when I called to seek personal council.
This morning as we were getting the kids out the door, she made my eggs. That's also twice in the last week and probably the second time in the last four years. Acts of service is her love language. She took the kids to school and I was going to head to work, but I took the time to make her coffee and breakfast and I left her a short note that said "Have a great day".
Now that was probably too much.
I know that mediation starts on Monday. I know that to a degree this is my last chance. Kindness, gentleness, and empathy are the tools I believe for this battle. If I go cold I am telling you that I lose. The next 14 days are going to be very important to how this turns out. I have a call with my coach on Thursday to continue to prepare.
A 180 is seeing the negative that she expects and doing the opposite. She expects me to punish her, silent treatment, passive-aggressive behavior, sulk around the house and make life hard. That is a road I know well, I can't go down that road.
I am an advocate of doing what works. If all of this works, great. The proof will be in the pudding come Monday, with mediation. You'll find out quickly how serious she is with moving forward with D.
My read: she sees you as a friend. And would like to keep you that way. Personally in my sitch I didn't want to settle for friendship with my W. I have lots of friends, I don't want to be married to any of them. So congrats, you guys are friends. More than likely she is hoping for this (friendship) to make the path forward smoother.
What I see Scott is a lot of pursuit and excuses to do so. AS said it best: "Pursuit never, ever works with a WAS my man." Until I hear "she cancelled mediation and wants to work on the marriage", I see all of this a manipulation on her part.
The mistake you are making is what a lot of LBS make. If she is nice "oh she likes me! We are making progress." If she isn't "Oh no, its the end of the world! Nothing is good!" You are uneven based on her words and actions. IE attachment.
Keep us updated.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I am all for you laying it out on the field so when this is over you can say you did everything in your power to keep your family together. Having said that, just know that your W knows you better then anyone on the planet and will likely see this as more manipulation and selfishness on your part.
I suggest you read up more on alpha males. There is a tendency to misconstrue the characteristics.
Lastly this amazing vulnerable perfect man your wife is dreaming about. It’s 100 times more likely you become that man then her finding it out there. It’s just going to take her some time to figure it out.
One more thing. In the last week or so you went from being an innocent bystander for the last four years to having some serious toxic behaviors you need to address. It’s good that you’re self aware but I thought there may be more to your story.
