She greeted me nicely when she saw me last week but put me in a separate bit on her Christmas card. Even the dog got included in the 'Merry Christmas' part!
My wife's father got in contact with my wife recently to encourage her to work on our marriage. She took offence to his text message. Thankfully she shared the message with me and we discussed it, which felt a bit like we were on the same side, which was really nice. (I could see both points of view - I think his message could be taken positively or judgementally, depending on what tone you read it in.)
During the conversation with my wife, she said that her father can't judge the situation because she hasn't told him all the facts why she left me, which were that I put my job before her, that I abandoned her in doing so, that I put money before her, that I put possessions before her, that I stopped her from having friends over, etc.
I didn't know what to say to this so didn't say anything. My mind was saying "I must validate her feelings and not argue" but I couldn't think of anything to say that didn't sound patronising or twee or glib.
I am very disheartened by her words because she knows how hard my job was, and that my motivation was always to earn enough to support her and the kids. My parents owned their own businesses during my childhood and through a series of misfortunes end up in a debt spiral which meant we kept selling up what we had and downsizing, my mum worked two jobs all hours (a full time job during the day then a nightshift at an all night roadside cafe/truck stop. i don't know how she managed it). I always vowed that my family would never be in the same position. Also our son is minorly autistic and I have always wanted to make sure we can support him. (He is massively creative and I think that if we can afford to support him while he 'makes his mark' in whatever he chooses as a profession, he could achieve great things - but it means giving him the support to do what he needs to do rather than force him to abandon his dreams to take on some 9 to 5 job.) My wife never returned to full time work after our two kids were born, and so hasn't worked a Friday in the last 15 years. I was often disappointed to come home from a hugely exhausting week to find nothing done on the housework. I told her I wasn't happy with people coming around when (e.g.) the toilets were dirty. My "please can you do some cleaning" became "you can't have visitors" in her mind.
I feel that if she maintains her viewpoint she will remain angry at me and will not want to reconcile, but I also see that if I try to explain my view, it is not dropping the rope, it is controlling (telling her 'no, this is how to think'), it is not validating, etc.
What is the way forward? Is it to forget about explaining the past and simply to continue demonstrating change now?
My wife's father got in contact with my wife recently to encourage her to work on our marriage. She took offence to his text message. Thankfully she shared the message with me and we discussed it, which felt a bit like we were on the same side, which was really nice. (I could see both points of view - I think his message could be taken positively or judgementally, depending on what tone you read it in.)
During the conversation with my wife, she said that her father can't judge the situation because she hasn't told him all the facts why she left me, which were that I put my job before her, that I abandoned her in doing so, that I put money before her, that I put possessions before her, that I stopped her from having friends over, etc.
I didn't know what to say to this so didn't say anything. My mind was saying "I must validate her feelings and not argue" but I couldn't think of anything to say that didn't sound patronising or twee or glib.
I am very disheartened by her words because she knows how hard my job was, and that my motivation was always to earn enough to support her and the kids. My parents owned their own businesses during my childhood and through a series of misfortunes end up in a debt spiral which meant we kept selling up what we had and downsizing, my mum worked two jobs all hours (a full time job during the day then a nightshift at an all night roadside cafe/truck stop. i don't know how she managed it). I always vowed that my family would never be in the same position. Also our son is minorly autistic and I have always wanted to make sure we can support him. (He is massively creative and I think that if we can afford to support him while he 'makes his mark' in whatever he chooses as a profession, he could achieve great things - but it means giving him the support to do what he needs to do rather than force him to abandon his dreams to take on some 9 to 5 job.) My wife never returned to full time work after our two kids were born, and so hasn't worked a Friday in the last 15 years. I was often disappointed to come home from a hugely exhausting week to find nothing done on the housework. I told her I wasn't happy with people coming around when (e.g.) the toilets were dirty. My "please can you do some cleaning" became "you can't have visitors" in her mind.
I feel that if she maintains her viewpoint she will remain angry at me and will not want to reconcile, but I also see that if I try to explain my view, it is not dropping the rope, it is controlling (telling her 'no, this is how to think'), it is not validating, etc.
What is the way forward? Is it to forget about explaining the past and simply to continue demonstrating change now?
Her truth is her truth. Perception IS reality. This is how she feels.
I see you wanting to validate, but then you give a huge paragraph of justifications. You then start future predicting.
"I feel that if she maintains her viewpoint she will remain angry at me and will not want to reconcile, but I also see that if I try to explain my view, it is not dropping the rope, it is controlling (telling her 'no, this is how to think'), it is not validating, etc."
Huh? So you think you should try to justify and reason with her so she will drop her anger? Yeah, there is nothing more angering to a person than a) arguing with their perception of reality and b) being told that their feelings are wrong. WAWs especially DO NOT WANT TO HEAR FROM THE LBS "your feelings are wrong!" That is what listening and validating does. NOTE: Validation is not agreeing or disagreeing. It is understanding how she feels. Period.
My favorite bald, Texan TV counselor likes to say: "Would you rather be right, or happy?" Right fighters are rarely happy. Why? Because they are too busy fighting to be right, upsetting everyone around them ("your feelings are wrong!") and going scorched earth to make sure their worldview is understood as the right worldview.
DBing is pretty simple. GAL. 180 on bad behavior (and you have a huge opportunity to 180 on having to justify things that people feel you did wrong), and detaching. Become the best man you can be. Your W will either come around...or she won't. That isn't in your control. But what is in your control is you. So work on you.
Last edited by Steve85; 02/18/2001:55 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I didn't know what to say to this so didn't say anything. My mind was saying "I must validate her feelings and not argue" but I couldn't think of anything to say that didn't sound patronising or twee or glib.
That's better than putting your foot in your mouth. I like simple validition:
I get that. I can see that. Or if you can try relate say "Yea he really doesn't know everything that went on does he?"
In reality, only the 2 people in a R know everything that happened. But kinda not since we can't remember everything anyways.
You need to read DB basics and hammer them home. When she states her feelings, her reality, her perspective of the situation you validate it. For now, you keep your own thoughts and feelings to yourself.
Quote
I feel that if she maintains her viewpoint she will remain angry at me and will not want to reconcile
Use your mind instead of your heart. She can remain angry and still be with you. Doesn't mean she will but it's possible. People are angry at loved ones often.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
During the conversation with my wife, she said that her father can't judge the situation because she hasn't told him all the facts why she left me, which were that I put my job before her, that I abandoned her in doing so, that I put money before her, that I put possessions before her, that I stopped her from having friends over, etc.
I didn't know what to say to this so didn't say anything. My mind was saying "I must validate her feelings and not argue" but I couldn't think of anything to say that didn't sound patronizing or twee or glib.
I am very disheartened by her words because.......
You need to BE HAPPY she told you these things. Most of us here were not so lucky. Thank you for sharing her words. They help us understand better.
So what is your learning experience from this?
Originally Posted by JoeDredd
Is it to forget about explaining the past and simply to continue demonstrating change now?
YUP. Nail down the validation. AnotherStander is your role model.
PS: I did not validate your feelings, I am pointing out my belief about how you should change. Validating your W will make her feel understood and that alone will help her feel more connected to you which in turn will make the relationship better.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I see you wanting to validate, but then you give a huge paragraph of justifications.
Okay, so I understand, is the goal not to justify myself to my wife, or not to justify to anyone at all?
Definitely not to your W. However, justification has a way of seeping into your interactions with your W. If you are justifying things here, then likely you are also justifying things to her. Even if it just in your facial expressions and body language.I saw you wrestling with wanting to validate and wanting to "explain". Just remember, her perception is her reality. Learn to validate. Learn that your explanations don't mean anything, to yourself or to her. Trust me, I had a father with emotional problems. He always felt the need to explain things away, even to himself.
Originally Posted by JoeDredd
Originally Posted by Steve85
My favorite bald, Texan TV counselor
Dr Phil?
Though sayest.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Hi Joe, from what I can tell, you are trying very hard to work on your M. It seems you grade how well you do by how your W responds. In most cases, using the spouse's response to our action is usually a sufficient measuring tool. However, if the spouse is not thinking rationally, is being negatively influenced, has a negative attitude in general, is engaged in inappropriate/secret activities, takes offense too quickly, or turns everything into a battlefield of drama..........then another measuring tool is needed. That's why you made a wise decision to join the board. Hopefully, you will learn a lot. I want to strongly suggest that you don't share anything you read or learn from the board with your W. I'll try to explain why.
Although you are still legally M, your W does not want to work on the MR and you cannot persuade her to change her mind. By that, I mean you cannot convince her to see it from your viewpoint.......or an author's book. I don't know if you've read Sandi's Rules, but one of the rules is about not trying to get your spouse to read books or watch videos on M. Why? B/c she is not in the same frame of mind as you, and she feels pressured whenever you want to share a new way to try. B/c of her resistance, it simply makes things worse whenever you try to approach her with something new you've learned. So, it's best at this time to stay silent about the things you learn.
It is obvious you are eager to have the opportunity to be a great husband to the woman you love. We hope you get that chance, too. You will read things on the board that seem very counter-intuitive, but I hope you will stick with us, and as someone has said, "Trust the process". DBing is the process that will give you the best chance to save your M.
I think most men want to pursue the WAW and prove how he can be a much better H. Before you can become a better H, you have to work on the man. Know what I mean? She has fired you as her H, and is not interested in seeing you as a better one. Therefore, I suggest you stop trying so hard to change her mind. Look at it this way. This period of time is for you to grow as a man, and as much as you want to reconcile, you need to pull back from her and give her all the space and time to fill the Grand Canyon. Focus on you and the kids. Take the focus off her and the M.
I think your W is being strongly influenced by her mother, and her female friends. That is something she will have to work out for herself. If you stop pursuing and emotionally pressuring her, she'll either realize she wants the M, or she'll continue to please her mother........in which case, she won't be wife material and will follow in mother's footsteps. It's sad that her mother feeds her negative junk, and it's sadder that your W feels she needs to check every move with her mother. It won't be easy for you to hold back and not try to give your two cents, but at the moment, I think your W sees you as the opponent and she's not going to side with you.
Read the links in the welcome post, especially the ones on detaching, boundaries, and validation.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
