Through The Storm III

[KristinG]

Is your W in IC? Sounds like she needs it if not.

WW is not in any type of IC. I agree and although she doesn't seem interested in going for herself, she has said that *if* we get back together that she would be willing to go to a marriage counselor to help us through all of the trust, intimacy, commitment issues.

Here are a few ideas for you to take or leave. Of course what everyone is going to say on here (and I don't disagree) is that what you *should* do is walk, go NC, let her feel the actual loss of you for more than a week, and continue to focus on yourself while she either gets her $hit together or she doesn't... and if she does, then you can decide if you're interested in getting back together with her or not.

I know that many of you are yelling at the screen telling me just this, and believe me - I get it. I admit that I have fears that if I did walk, it would be an easy excuse for her to close the door for us and commit to OW. And, yes, if that is what became of things then maybe we were not meant to be together after all. AND, I know that I would be ok in the future.

I think the basics are do what you're doing until you can't anymore, and a lot of what is focused on here on the boards is the LRT, what you do when nothing else is working and/or you can't continue for your own sanity in the current situation.

I'm trying to hang onto just being myself. Standing, being a friend, working on listening, and generally making improvements within my own life. Those are my basics and when I said I'm not ready to walk, for me, it means that I'm continuing to do these things until I can't anymore.

Part of what makes it so hard to consider walking is that on a daily basis, ww makes comments about our future together. "When we buy this house we need to redo the floors." "We are going to have such an amazing vacation together this summer."

I can really see that the wayward head is spinning endlessly. I read an interesting article the other day about how wayward behavior is as if the soul is being torn and is a direct reflection of feeling at war with your own sense of self. I'm proud of the fact that I have been more in control of my own emotional reactions and have not allowed WW's spinning to effect me (at least not in front of her).

KG

[IronWill]

Is your W in IC? Sounds like she needs it if not.

WW is not in any type of IC. I agree and although she doesn't seem interested in going for herself, she has said that *if* we get back together that she would be willing to go to a marriage counselor to help us through all of the trust, intimacy, commitment issues.

Hey Kristin. Still following along - remember to believe none of what they say. It is what she is feeling in the moment. Also remember that since she is actively involved in an R with someone else, you have no idea what she is telling that other person. She could be saying something similar to OW - or not, it is impossible to know.

Also, those would be reasons for her to go to IC. She has those issues, not you. That is projection.

Here are a few ideas for you to take or leave. Of course what everyone is going to say on here (and I don't disagree) is that what you *should* do is walk, go NC, let her feel the actual loss of you for more than a week, and continue to focus on yourself while she either gets her $hit together or she doesn't... and if she does, then you can decide if you're interested in getting back together with her or not.

I know that many of you are yelling at the screen telling me just this, and believe me - I get it. I admit that I have fears that if I did walk, it would be an easy excuse for her to close the door for us and commit to OW. And, yes, if that is what became of things then maybe we were not meant to be together after all. AND, I know that I would be ok in the future.

Honestly I think may is right. The fears have already manifested. She is already with another person. I dont think you really want to be involved with someone who is openly in an R with another person, if I am reading your sit right...?

You don't have to "walk" or "give up". I think theres a misconception about those words. I would think it more appropriate to call it "letting go". Let her have the fantasy that she thinks will make her happy.

Right now she's got the best of both worlds. There is no consequence if she knows she can keep running back to you every week. Losing you will shove her fantasy into reality very quickly.

I'm not saying to let go forever. It's just what you would do "for now".

I'm trying to hang onto just being myself. Standing, being a friend, working on listening, and generally making improvements within my own life. Those are my basics and when I said I'm not ready to walk, for me, it means that I'm continuing to do these things until I can't anymore.

Part of what makes it so hard to consider walking is that on a daily basis, ww makes comments about our future together. "When we buy this house we need to redo the floors." "We are going to have such an amazing vacation together this summer."

I know this is hard, Kristin. Be kind to yourself. Keep working on detachment - keep focusing on you. Let WW have her drama, that belongs to her and it is on her to work through it whatever way she needs to.

Take care of yourself, stay strong

[may22]

I know that many of you are yelling at the screen telling me just this, and believe me - I get it

Just want to say... bahahahaha... at least you and I are giving other people things to get excited about, right??? Public service.

I'm trying to hang onto just being myself. Standing, being a friend, working on listening, and generally making improvements within my own life. Those are my basics and when I said I'm not ready to walk, for me, it means that I'm continuing to do these things until I can't anymore.

One thing I think it is so easy to miss-- for me for sure-- is that the illusion of action is so, so powerful. What you just outlined you are doing? That is SOMETHING. That is action. That is taking back your power in the most intrinsic and real of ways. Those changes you're making now are things you will have with you forever, and in the end you might be most grateful to WW for all of this because you took this enormously valuable gift for yourself away from it. Being a good friend, being a good listener, standing in your own convictions even when it is $hit hard and everyone around you is questioning you-- that is powerful and strong. But it sometimes doesn't feel that way because it isn't a big demonstrative action, it isn't walking, it isn't telling your W what you will and won't accept... because it doesn't feel like an action, it sometimes feels like you aren't doing anything.

I have had a really hard time with this, the powerlessness of feeling like I'm doing nothing. But I don't think that is true for me, and I don't think it is true for you. And I think there is a lot of focus here on what to do so that your S will feel X, or suffer the consequences of Y, and/or will never change until you do Z. And honestly that very well may be true. For all I know if we'd both booted our Ss and gone NC on day one we could be well into "piecing' by now. But if that isn't the right path for you? I can't see why you need to treat your S in a certain way if perhaps the most central focus of DBing is to let go, stop pursuing, and focus on yourself. MWD seems pretty clear that if you can handle it while still being in contact or living together or whatever, then you should do it. My DB coach has said the same. There is such a focus here on the LRT, maybe because it works, maybe because we're all in deep by the time we get here-- but it doesn't mean that the basics *don't* work, they just might not work as quickly or the same way. (Or it might not work at all. But if you do it the way that is right for you, then you always know you did what was best for you, and that you didn't get bullied into doing something you disagree with just because it was the illusion of action.)

You seem so different now than when we first "met"-- you seem so much more grounded and centered and strong. I can tell this all isn't affecting you the way it used to. What you are doing is working, and like the vets keep saying ... DBing is for you, not for your M or to get your S back. You're doing this, and doing it well. Stay strong.

(I did have one tiny little piece of advice, which is this... I would audit your actions and edit out anything that could be perceived by your WW as pursuit. You can do all of the above without needing to show her or tell her that you still need/want her. Like the hugs. Just a thought.)

[KristinG]

IW,

Thanks for checking in. I have been reading your thread and keeping up. I haven't chimed in too much because I start to feel redundant always telling you to keep plugging away at it. I don't think I would have the emotional fortitude to withstand IHS as long as you have endured. Kudos bro and keep your head up because you are worth so much more than how W has been acting. It's funny to me that you like to describe it as "letting go". I had a dream about two weeks ago in which I was floating away holding a rope. It was a peaceful dream and I just let go of the rope (in the dream). I know I'm not fully detached and truthfully, I'm unsure anyone that is standing can ever be fully detached. BUT, I have been able to remove my emotional reactions from our encounters. Plus, she has been able to go and have her fantasy life anytime she wants - I haven't stopped her or even made an objection to her choosing that life at any point. I'm just still here - still being, standing, living, whatever you want to call it - I'm here.

May,

RIGHT?!?! Girl, your thread got cray cray for a nano sec. I think most of everything said was all very passionate viewpoints and we can learn a lot from opposing views. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't super stoked at your tigress come out for a minute. You pulled on some sassy britches and said "look here people, I am strong, I am courageous, and a force to be reckoned with.. no doormat in sight". It made me laugh imagining you waving your finger in the air like a boss. I don't think anyone said anything from a malicious or hurtful place and I know, at least for me, it was helpful to hear some straightforward and really tough opinions.

I definitely feel like I'm "doing nothing" for lack of a better phrase. I am going with the flow and doing my best not to let anything WW is feeling or doing to effect me. I agree with your recommendation about the physical pursuit. I know it's because I'm so craving that touch and reassurance. Still needs work and I am going to make a conscience effort to pull back the reigns.

Regarding Blu's comments about how she was one extreme in her sitch and you and I were on the opposite end of the spectrum. My IC made some comments that kind of related and resonated with that same premise. I have a pattern of being strong to my convictions (almost to a fault). If I choose to do something, I go all in. Standing for my marriage, I have put up with more than what most people would deem appropriate. Someone else might be on the other end of that spectrum in which they live their life with as little worry or conviction as possible, making sure that they are protecting the self first and foremost. Both people on the spectrum are too far to the extreme. I need to make more of a commitment to self and what I need, and the other person needs to commit more to standing true to convictions or choices. Interesting stuff.

And now, a really funny and cheesy sentence that came out during my session as well:

I was telling IC about feeling much stronger and being proud of myself for controlling my emotional reactions. She asked for an example and I told her that WW could literally tell me that she and AP had amazing sex on the moon last night and that I wouldn't have an extreme reaction. I told her that I really think I would say "that really [censored] to hear, but .. was it out of this world?!"

I didn't really realize that I had made a joke until it came out of my mouth and we both died laughing.

I hope you guys are having a great week so far and HAPPY HUMP DAY!

KG

[KristinG]

Oh and PS.. Blu, if you're reading this, I did not mean that you are at the other end of the spectrum my IC was talking about! I am certain that you are a woman that is not afraid to stand by convictions with vigor. It was a different spectrum than the example you posed in May's thread. Your original comments about how different you reacted in your sitch than I did in mine made me think. Ironically, my IC brought up a different scenario also involving spectrums and varying reactions that added to my intrigue and I thought I would share with everyone here. I realized after posting that it could have come off as if I was equating you to the other end of the "non-commitment" spectrum! HA! *Deepest* apologies and that was NOT my intent.

Much love,

KG

[IronWill]

IW,

Thanks for checking in. I have been reading your thread and keeping up. I haven't chimed in too much because I start to feel redundant always telling you to keep plugging away at it.

That's ok Kristin - it helps to get the nonsense and ridiculousness out of my head sometimes. If people post on my thread or not, regardless, this site is a very helpful tool. Of course it helps to get an outsider's opinion sometimes, but I get that everyone has busy lives, especially with everything that is going in their own situations. I'm grateful to have the support

I don't think I would have the emotional fortitude to withstand IHS as long as you have endured. Kudos bro and keep your head up because you are worth so much more than how W has been acting. It's funny to me that you like to describe it as "letting go". I had a dream about two weeks ago in which I was floating away holding a rope. It was a peaceful dream and I just let go of the rope (in the dream). I know I'm not fully detached and truthfully, I'm unsure anyone that is standing can ever be fully detached. BUT, I have been able to remove my emotional reactions from our encounters. Plus, she has been able to go and have her fantasy life anytime she wants - I haven't stopped her or even made an objection to her choosing that life at any point. I'm just still here - still being, standing, living, whatever you want to call it - I'm here.

Thanks Kristin. It's been a wild ride so far. I was in no shape to be in IHS for this long at BD. I nearly left twice, I was reeling and in severe emotional and mental distress for half a year before a series of things happened in rapid succession - finding the Eckhart Tolle book in the oddest of ways, then finding the DB book, then finding this site, then finding another site - and all of them said as if in unison "let go!!".

It was everywhere I looked, and it made me totally rethink my relationship with fate, the universe, God - whatever you want to call it. I had been crying out for answers and got an onslaught of them - but only after 6 months of absolute and pure h3ll that I almost succumbed to.

It profoundly changed me. I dont know how else to describe it, but I feel like a different person now. Sure there are still elements of who I was that pop up from time to time when something happens, the well-worn patterns return, but when I realize they are there I stop and tell myself that that is not who I am anymore. It's so weird - sometimes it feels like my former self has a temper tantrum because it isn't being listened to anymore, then eventually it goes away.

Long story short (too late probably - lol), I declared the MR dead, do not resuscitate, and accepted that I was now alone. I chose to accept interactions with W only on her initiation, and viewed her as a ghost of her former self. I keep pleasant and upbeat when I reply to her - which is pretty rare because she does not want much interaction - but when she says something chaotic or nonsensical, I validate.

It is very much like dealing with the death of a spouse, I would imagine.

Anyway, I say all this weirdness to you because I think you are also on the path to becoming a much stronger person. I can see it in your posts - despite the setbacks. It's inherent within you, your writing here shows it.

I believe you are right about detachment - it is a goal to work toward, but there will never be a final destination. How could there be, unless one is to completely rewrite history and ignore that there ever was an R with WAS?

The truth is you had a life with them and it profoundly impacted who you were as a person. At the moment, my WAW has chosen to ignore 21 years of our lives together. At least - she projects that externally. Internally I know it is a VERY different story. That's why I give so much space- it is a tornado in her head right now. I imagine it would be similar in your Ws head too.

At any rate I've rambled on longer than I intended. I kinda do that sometimes. Keep going on your path Kristin. Keep the lighthouse lit, and stay strong.

Take care

[may22]

Hi KG,

How are you doing today? Just wanted to check in and see what your plans were (if you're checking in). I'm thinking of you.

I had a couple of other thoughts that have been bouncing around in my head about your sitch the last couple of days. The first is about your W and the IC. This is of course probably not DB but I wonder if you could gently encourage her more to see someone. And truly not for you or for any hope of your R... it seems like it would be really beneficial for her. Someone that can help her sort out that whirlwind in her head.

Part of what makes it so hard to consider walking is that on a daily basis, ww makes comments about our future together. "When we buy this house we need to redo the floors." "We are going to have such an amazing vacation together this summer."

Here's my other thought... it seems like you're doing a great job in not letting what WW is doing with OW affect you. (Your dad joke was pretty funny.... yes, that was totally a dad joke) However, I wonder if you have reached that same level of detachment about how WW feels (or doesn't feel) about YOU. I realized that the other day for myself-- when I parse through what bothers me more, I think I get more of an emotional reaction inside when H talks about what he does or doesn't feel (both bad and good) about me rather than how he feels about AP. Anyway, I was just wondering if your next step of detachment is to be able to listen to her spin fantasies of you guys riding back off into the sunset, or conversely avoiding physical contact, such that those things don't bother you either. You're the steady ship.

Much love to you on valentine's day, KG.

[KristinG]

Hey guys and gals. I hope everyone had an enjoyable Vday and took Yail's advice indulging in ridiculous sweets and doing something only for you.

May - I have pondered on your thought of detaching in regards to WW's feelings toward me (both good and bad). I hadn't thought about it that way, and I'm sure you're correct in that I get far more emotionally invested when thinking of her feelings as concerning me. It will hopefully be very helpful to work towards curtailing expectations. I feel like we all in some way have hope for our relationships, but I find it difficult to reign in the expectations that sometimes accompany the hope. Especially when WS says or does something that could be viewed as commitment. I did a good job of trying to avoid pursuit in physical touch this weekend. Truthfully, I just tried to enjoy my time off work with friends and let things happen naturally.

WW initiated more "R" talk, which I'm oddly finding helpful to understand how she's feeling. I don't initiate or even engage nearly as much anymore. When she has a need to talk, I just listen. Recently, it seems as if she is being pursued pretty hard by AP and (while she admits it's really hard) she is finding it easier to say no. I'm not pressuring her to end things anymore, and have been trying to let go of any expectation of any future scenario. Giving up the control feels so much better than the spinning. She knows that she has a decision to make and that I won't wait forever. She says she's so tired, and that she knows that she wants our marriage. I'm just continue to give her (and myself) time. I have definitely been hearing a lot more "our future" statements the last couple of months and it is definitely hard not to attach any meaning.

Vday was good. I made myself some crispy chicken thighs, roasted okra, and roasted butternut squash. Made a big bubble bath and soaked with a nice bourbon.

KG

[Yail]

Giving up the control feels so much better than the spinning.

This is such a relief to get to this stage. It's not giving up, but it's really the first major step at recognizing our WAS as separate beings who have autonomous thoughts and desires. She needs to figure those out. You figure you out. And if i works that you both want the same thing - that's amazing. But none of us are in control of anyone but our selves, and I personally think the sooner we *truly* learn that lesson and don't just give it lip-service the sooner we feel amazing and start living our authentic lives.

Vday was good. I made myself some crispy chicken thighs, roasted okra, and roasted butternut squash. Made a big bubble bath and soaked with a nice bourbon.

Uggghhh after my heart here grrrl. I need a bourbon bubble bath. I'm putting it on my to-do list.


******
In other - totally non-DB or R based news: have you heard of Lex? It's a lezzie dating app. I just discovered it via an Autostraddle article (posted this week if you're curious) which had me dying laughing and now I want to get on it just for the hysterical reading. Not looking to post profiles, but certainly looking for entertainment. I'm not on it yet, this isn't me endorsing it but I'm curious if other lesbians have actually heard of it or if it's still a bit fringe-y.

[ovrrnbw]

Especially when WS says or does something that could be viewed as commitment

Can be viewed as commitment means wishy washy to me. If they want you, you'll know it. If they don't want you, you'll be confused. Good job avoiding the touch. Realize that it is our minds fooling us into wanting the touch, wanting the emotional connection so intensely once we realize we can't have it. Then once we get it again, it's not so special. Just like sex in the beginning of a R vs sex 5 years in. It's different because we think about it differently. It's an unconscious drift. Consciousness changes it all around.

Someone else might be on the other end of that spectrum in which they live their life with as little worry or conviction as possible, making sure that they are protecting the self first and foremost. Both people on the spectrum are too far to the extreme.

This is assuming the spectrum only moves in 2 dimensions. Now we are getting philosophical.