So to simplify things for you take out her words because they mean absolutely nothing. In her actions is she showing you anything to make you believe she wants to reconcile with you?
I was formulating a similar response in my mind as I was reading OS's latest update.
OS, "she said"......you typed those words about a dozen times in that last post. Every time you type those words it should trigger in your own head: "Oh, believe NOTHING she says."
My W would say similar things. Why? Because she wasn't ready to see her Plan B go away. Especially when Plan A was so flimsy. Likely she is buying more time. The reason may be the EA. It may be because she isn't ready to do what it takes to take the next step in S and D. Or it could be because, likely, she doesn't even know what she wants herself.
When you hang on your WAS's every word, you will get burned.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
You're all right. As we've begun to talk more and more I've got dragged in. I'm still suspicious of OM actually. I'm thinking of telling W I want to end all conversation/meetings with W until she wants to reconcile. Is that a good idea? She's continually asking for meetings now, dinners etc wanting to spend time with me. I do think she is trying to work things out in her head but she can't possibly do that if OM is still involved at all, and I feel I'm being too available. Or should I just detach and GAL like a mad man and remove any attention I'm paying her? I'm worried she is cake eating, I think she is. If it's become PA again I'm not sure I'll be able to take that, I might have to look at D.
Just coming back to the message board, and catching up on your thread...
You need to figure out OM:
- If OM is still involved, then absolutely no contact - no cake eating allowed.
- If OM is not involved, then be available sometimes but not all the time... when you do hang out, listen and validate. Keep GAL, use the time to learn and gain yourself confidence back.
I'm thinking of telling W I want to end all conversation/meetings with W until she wants to reconcile. Is that a good idea? She's continually asking for meetings now, dinners etc wanting to spend time with me. I do think she is trying to work things out in her head but she can't possibly do that if OM is still involved at all, and I feel I'm being too available. Or should I just detach and GAL like a mad man and remove any attention I'm paying her?
Why tell her you want to end all conversation? Show her! Go Ghost mode. Don't even leave her the option of reconciliation. The only thing to do when the person across from you is holding all the aces at the table is KICK THE TABLE OVER. It sounds like you answered your own question. Again Im no expert here, and would allow the vets their opinions and wisdom as well, but I've personally just hit the "f$ck it" button several times over in my life, and have developed a few different mindsets around these situations, push pull interdynamics and power, dating, marriage, and relationships. Attention is currency to them. Its what drives them and their emotions. If they weren't getting attention from you, they are getting it from somewhere else. Could be friends, family, OM, whatever....
When Plan A fails. You can obviously see what happens. All of a siddem they want to weasel their way back in. Asking for dates, meetings, dinners, wanting to spend time with you JUST ALL OF A SUDDEN OUT OF THE BLUE WHEN THEY ARE THE ONES THAT BROKE THE COMMITMENT IN THE FIRST PLACE! This part should be underlined....BROKE THE COMMITMENT IN THE MOMENT... Due to a series of events that lead up to the fallout. You see? Again this is my opinion of how the sexes differ in their thinking. (Ok yes I am generalizing again.) But its worth noting from my own personal observation. We look back and see the good times. The memories. The building of the relationship. The equity. The moments. The investment. In a very idealisticly sense. But for some of us, our blind spots are what we contributed to the downfall of it. Yes I know we beat ourselves and each other over the head, and try to 180 these bad behaviors. Sometimes it has an effect on the other person, and sometimes it doesn't be cause the other person is so far done and gone that in their mind and story, we will never change, and the fact that it took them to leave us to change, could lead their narrative to make them think how little we valued them in the first place. Its cognitive dissonance.
Now... On the other side of things. They are in the right now...They are operating in real time with their emotions and story. If they want it to change, they will change it. Opportunisticly. Want to change either their circumstances, their life or lifestyle, their lover, or their spouse. Its almost a "What have you done for me lately." mindset due to relationship apathy, complacency, etc. They live in the now, and reflect on the future a lot, and because they are "just not feeling it anymore." For right now. That future looks bleak to them, so it's better for them to start over, try again, see what's out there, get attracted, be guided by their feelings, etc....Anything new experience or otherwise feels better than the pain, resentment, disappointment, etc. This is where accountability and agency go completely out the window with regard to past history, sentimentality, and reverence to it and for it. So they go looking for the BBD (Bigger Better Deal.) Then when it doesn't work out? Plan A fails. Suddenly they want to try again? But they still haven't taken accountability for their own actions, their own behavior, etc. But want to work on things.
Do you really think if you made yourself available that you will be respected? I don't think so. It just sends signals that you can be wrapped around someone's finger. Nevermind love. Put that aside for now. You need to be respected first and foremost. The best revenge is living your best life with or without them. Growing. GALing. Etc. Coming back around to what I said earlier about commitment. Is breaking a commitment respectful? Of your time. Your feelings. Your family. Your life. Your boundaries and your consideration? IMO. Dates, meetings, dinners, etc are all good starting points for open communication and dialog. But it just doesn't sound as if she's at rock bottom. I've been thinking a lot about all my past relationships from start to finish as of lately... I've realized people will make themselves available on somewhat of a whim when they are into you, and will move heaven and earth when they are. Feelings.... Ahhh.. :-) When they are not. They will ghost you, flake on you, give you half hearted commitments of ambiguity. Love bomb you, then go quiet and disappear. Push/pull etc... Play manipulation games. Play the field on both sides of the fence. You know? Cake eating....If someone has 5 or 6 suitors chasing them? What do you think that does to their ego? It inflates it... No? So what happens when they lose all 6 interests? OPTION F....lol..and guess who that is to them right now? YOU ARE ALWAYS OPTION A. If you are not. You will know it by their actions and not their words which is just lip service and mistrust at this point. Let me ask you this question? Do you want someone chasing you that is like..."Ahhh you re kind of nice for right now... But I don't know what I want...There's so many options... So lets go on a few dinners and see if there is still a connection." See the potential of losing respect again here? You re a backup plan. Don't be a backup plan please. I know some people still need to "feel the waters" to see if there is still connections, and that takes time, re building of trust, and demonstration taking things slow... But at the very least. This is your life partner, (Or former life partner we are taking about here.) At the very least, you want a solid commitment by actions, not half hearted gestures to actually put in the work on the M and take complete and total accountability for all past behaviors, trust breaches, etc...ON YOUR TERMS! You are reluctant to even give them another shot unless they went above and beyond and begged their way back into your life. Otherwise. Move on with yours.
Thank you IHCLACS. She made plans for us today, I've told her I won't be seeing her as she still has methods of contact with OM and I v strongly suspect she is even still seeing him and I said she can't be working on our R while contact is still there. Up to to her now to sort out her mess. The way I feel now I'm not even sure if we can come back from this as further contact with OM is so hurtful and would mean she's been lying to me during our 'honest' conversations. I suspect from her replies there is still contact. I'm NC/detached. Can anyone advise on next steps? When will I know if she is ready? I think it's going to have to be good to get me back on board now.
Thank you IHCLACS. She made plans for us today, I've told her I won't be seeing her as she still has methods of contact with OM and I v strongly suspect she is even still seeing him and I said she can't be working on our R while contact is still there.
Good! Now expect some lies and gaslighting. She'll deny she's talking to anyone, whether she is or not. She still needs to think she can lose you, and she needs to hit bottom before she'll truly be committed to recon.
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Up to to her now to sort out her mess.
It really is. She's going to look for the path of least resistance through this mess she's created. She's got to learn there isn't one, she's got some work ahead of her.
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The way I feel now I'm not even sure if we can come back from this as further contact with OM is so hurtful and would mean she's been lying to me during our 'honest' conversations. I suspect from her replies there is still contact. I'm NC/detached. Can anyone advise on next steps? When will I know if she is ready?
If you suspect it's going on then it probably is. Your next step is what everyone said above. Pull back. Don't pursue. Leave her be. Don't be so available to her. If she asks why you suddenly don't want to go out anymore then tell her what you said above- you're not interested until she's ready to make a 100% commitment, and you're not even sure if you'll be interested then.
Update. One thing I asked W to do is remove OM from social media. Rather than do that she’s deleted her profiles and said she’s removed them for good. W has mentioned before she would rather do that too than remove friends. Find this odd - if OM is still on the scene I would have thought she could tell him about it? Opting to delete social media accounts instead looks like saving face to me. Or maybe formally removing friends is less easy than turning it all off? W is going away tonight to see “old friends”. Says she feels pressured and wants space for a few days. Also says she wants to come back home at the weekend and make a new start, total commitment, will do whatever is needed. W said last night she’s been hoping to come back and start afresh. She thinks I’m a different person to the one she left and is sceptical whether I’m different for her. I told her it’s not for her it’s for me. Which is true. I’m giving her space.
Be careful with these requests. They come across as controlling.
Absolutely agree. I've been really careful with this. Asking her to end comm with OM is the only thing I've maintained which I feel is just respectful and an absolute requirement before R can begin. W has complained about controlling/punishing behaviour which I'm careful to avoid. That's not the type of relationship I want.
I agree with you that she needs to delete him from all social media I just don’t think you should have told her that yet.
I want to brace your for the fact that you are still being played and this is all WW BS. She’s feeling pressured and needs space but a couple days away with “friends” is going to change that.
My bet is she is going to come home and half a$$ it while still seeing om or until she finds another om. I hope I wrong but the proof will be in her actions.
