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A Message from Michele
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Re: Starting the process [Re: unchien] #2885600
02/14/20 01:28 PM
02/14/20 01:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,561
Massachusetts
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bttrfly Offline
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IMHO #1 under reasons to file says it all.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16

"Whoever knows me can never fall - For I am love, which the vast expanse of evil can never still." -Hildegard of Bingen
Re: Starting the process [Re: bttrfly] #2885621
02/14/20 02:54 PM
02/14/20 02:54 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,371
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unchien Offline OP
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unchien  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,371
Originally Posted by bttrfly
IMHO #1 under reasons to file says it all.

Right, I agree.

And then the doubt creeps into my brain.

"Doesn't everyone have difficulty adopting an attitude of compromise in mediation?"

"Doesn't everyone feel like they are giving a mile to gain an inch?"

"Am I just too passive a person to effectively negotiate in mediation?"

Re: Starting the process [Re: unchien] #2885625
02/14/20 02:58 PM
02/14/20 02:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,561
Massachusetts
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bttrfly Offline
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only you can answer these questions.

I know that's not particularly helpful but it is true..

no what you want. you cannot negotiate anything unless you know what you want.


M 20+ T25+
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16

"Whoever knows me can never fall - For I am love, which the vast expanse of evil can never still." -Hildegard of Bingen
Re: Starting the process [Re: unchien] #2885629
02/14/20 03:11 PM
02/14/20 03:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,703
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LH19 Online
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LH19  Online
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,703
Iím going to tell you a true story.

My ex had filed but we never discussed negotiations for about 4 months. I came home from my cottage one weekend and on the way home I decided I wanted to know the breakdown. I got home and she was in the bedroom in bed. I went to the filing cabinet and got each of our paystubs. I walked in and said this is what I want:

50/50 custody
Marital home Iíd buy her out
Added up two take home pays divided by two and told her I would give her the difference
Gave her the choice of the cars one had payment one didnít
Told her to take anything from house but my two TVs and I didnít want the kids rooms touched. Also I didnít want martial bed.
She said ok. I went downstairs. Divorce negotiated.

You have to start somewhere. Maybe youíll be surprised


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

ďDon't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.Ē- Will Smith
Re: Starting the process [Re: unchien] #2885633
02/14/20 03:38 PM
02/14/20 03:38 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,371
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unchien Offline OP
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unchien  Offline OP
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LH ~ That is a great story.

I have the list of what I want, simple, just like you had it. I do have information about where my W stands as well based on her comments.

Here's where we stand:

Kids:
I want a path to 50/50. She wants to maybe give me a path to 30/70 (1 more night). Any more than that and she wants the right to pick them up after school on my days if I can't. She also has "safety concerns" to discuss, which means she probably wants some proof that I am going to classes or counseling or something. Some assurances. She hasn't said that yet, I am speculating here, but I think that is what she means. She has asked for things like that in the past.

House:
I want my part of the equity. Sell the house and split the proceeds.

But she wants to keep the house. She has no income right now. She can't take over the loan without me agreeing to keep my name on it for some period of time. I think she will sink under the weight of the mortgage and I worry about my credit. I see no benefit other than some stability for the kids not having to move. I think it's on her to prove that this can work.

Work:
I have to work FT by the nature of what I do. But I have flexibility to leave early on days I need to get the kids, and stay late to make up the time other nights. She wants to work 1 day per week, and spend max time with the kids. She speculates she can support herself off that. But she doesn't even work yet. I think this is unrealistic both for custody and financial reasons.

Other Assets:
Split them. We probably agree on this (except I had some pre-marital stuff to discuss as some of it is SP).

Re: Starting the process [Re: unchien] #2885638
02/14/20 03:48 PM
02/14/20 03:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,703
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LH19 Online
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LH19  Online
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,703
This seems simple to me also:

30/70 unacceptable to me. Hereís what is acceptable to me

You want the house? Great! Cut me a check for my share of the equity.

When I have the kids Iíll worry about getting them to x. If you can help great. If not, Iíll make it work.

W you are going to have to get a job in work x amount of days.

Anything less Iíll see you in court.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

ďDon't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.Ē- Will Smith
Re: Starting the process [Re: unchien] #2885639
02/14/20 03:49 PM
02/14/20 03:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 4,557
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TBSakaJ9 Offline
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Mine was done in at the kitchen table in about an hour.

I would not settle for anything less than 50/50. Anything less the more CS you will pay and my assumption is that's what she wants. Don't do it, that is the one thing I would have drained every account I have in fighting.

I kept our home and bought her out of her portion.

All other assets split 50/50.

I gave her our youngest child to claim on income taxes so she has that deduction longer. I also gave her the car with the cheapest car payment and only had about 3 years left on the note.

I pay her $850/mth in support. I give her the difference of what she would pay me if I had full custody and what I would pay her if she had full custody. If I had less than 50/50 or the standard state non-custodial visitation plan I would be paying close to 2k/mth.

That CS and visitation stuff is no joke. I would not waiver on that.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
Re: Starting the process [Re: unchien] #2885644
02/14/20 04:11 PM
02/14/20 04:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,724
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kml Offline
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First of all, unless thereís something youíre not telling us, your wife has a screw loose. Grabbing a kid by the leg and yelling at him to stop hitting his sister is normal parenting. Maybe not our finest moments but I defy you to find a parent of bickering kids who hasnít done something similar. She is either using this deliberately to hurt you in the divorce or has some kind of serious issues from her own childhood that she is unjustly projecting onto you.

Second - sheís going to work one day a week and support herself? What planet does she live on? Iím a doctor and I couldnít support myself working one day a week.

It sounds like she thinks youíre just going to continue to support her and leave her in the house and pay for everything while she gets to continue to be a stay at home mom. Divorce doesnít work like that!

Iím not sure mediation can work with someone like this. And stick to your guns about the house - she buys you out or you sell. Donít leave your name on that mortgage.

Re: Starting the process [Re: unchien] #2885652
02/14/20 04:30 PM
02/14/20 04:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 3,171
Canada
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AndrewP Offline
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One of the best pieces of advice that I was given going in to my divorce was to look at it as a business deal and take the emotion out of it.

One of my goals was to have things as simple and final as possible. We went through what's called a Collaborative Divorce. For the lawyers as I think someone else suggested on this thread - it's another day at the office. Fill in the forms with the standard clauses, get the signatures and move on. To change that, you have to have a clear idea of what you want and what you are willing to let go.

Also - don't expect your STBX to be prepared to have anything put together or to actually assist in the process. Some are very prepared, but the sort we see here aren't and generally have a sense of entitlement and an unwillingness to do any actual work on a settlement any more than they were willing to work on the marriage.

For background, when my ex left the house, she gutted it pulling out much of the furniture, all of the more valuable antiques, artwork and collectibles. "Stuff".

I knew that while she may have loved this house, that she had plans to move in with OM (didn't happen for years) and couldn't maintain it.

There were lots of forms to fill out for financial disclosure etc and little to my surprise she didn't but showed up with random scraps of paper with numbers on them.

Prior to the negotiations I met with my bank and got pre-authorized for the largest amount that they would grant me against the household equity.

When the lawyers got to the point where they were filling out the forms and asking for signatures on values to be transferred, I stopped the process to make my pitch.

So - I made three proposals:
1 - Cash settlement based on the equity in the house
2 - Cash settlement including household equity plus a large amount of my pensions transferred to her
3 - Split between cash and spousal support for a fixed amount of time

Part of the deal was a blanket statement that the value of what she removed from the marital home (and bank accounts) was roughly equal to what she left behind. The phrase I used that my lawyer liked was that I didn't want to waste time or money looking for nickels in the couch cushions.

One condition was that any deal was to be considered final and would not be re-opened for any reason. My assumption was that her greed and expectation that she could have OM's money and mine along with a very real fear of her affair being the topic of a court battle would make her not want to fight.

She took a modified version of proposal #3. My lawyer I think hurt herself kicking me under the table whispering "take it take it take it".

I bought her out of the house, got a great deal on some new original art at a charity auction (I had - ahem - more than a bit of wine) and have moved on with my life.

Over-all I think it cost me about 8 grand in legal fees including the money to buy out the house, mostly because I believed that my lawyer cared and sent her emails asking for opinions.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Re: Starting the process [Re: kml] #2885654
02/14/20 04:34 PM
02/14/20 04:34 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,371
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unchien Offline OP
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unchien  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,371
Originally Posted by kml
First of all, unless thereís something youíre not telling us, your wife has a screw loose. Grabbing a kid by the leg and yelling at him to stop hitting his sister is normal parenting. Maybe not our finest moments but I defy you to find a parent of bickering kids who hasnít done something similar. She is either using this deliberately to hurt you in the divorce or has some kind of serious issues from her own childhood that she is unjustly projecting onto you.

There is nothing I am not telling you.

Originally Posted by kml
Second - sheís going to work one day a week and support herself? What planet does she live on? Iím a doctor and I couldnít support myself working one day a week.
You are preaching to the choir =)

Originally Posted by kml
It sounds like she thinks youíre just going to continue to support her and leave her in the house and pay for everything while she gets to continue to be a stay at home mom. Divorce doesnít work like that!

She keeps referring to "stability being key" whenever anything comes up. Stability for the kids is best, etc. Professionals say "stability is best for the kids."

It just so happens this means things like keeping the house, W keeping majority custody, etc.

Originally Posted by kml
Iím not sure mediation can work with someone like this. And stick to your guns about the house - she buys you out or you sell. Donít leave your name on that mortgage.
Yeah, I won't fold on this. I am easy-going, but not THAT easy-going.

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