Thanks BenB

[Ready2Change]

With that said, claim the MBR as yours. If she decides to sleep elsewhere, make it manly. A big picture of a motorcycle or an airplane. New black comforter and bedding.

Little words, much action.

If asked:
H:"I believe it is best I sleep in here"

[hoosjim]

"Traditional Values are long gone and for instance "traditional" values between men and women don't really exist here anymore. We are equal in society."

Being "equal in society" has absolutely nothing to do with the importance, impact, and effectiveness of traditional gender roles. Men and men and women are women... Our bodies, brains, and biochemical makeup are fundamentally different and we react in different ways to different stimuli. Doesn't matter one whit if you don't believe in God because it is science... based on millions of years of evolution and the survival and mating instincts that are indelibly ingrained in each sex. Whether or not you believe that women can and should vote, run for public office and hold positions of political leadership, preside in the board room, and have every opportunity a man does in society is completely irrelevant in terms of how men and women treat each other socially, maritally, and sexually. Each has a role to play and each is equally important, BUT THEY ARE DIFFERENT ROLES. Repeat after me: MEN AND WOMEN ARE DIFFERENT! Learn it. Live it. Love it. You can cry and scream and pontificate all you want about "Strong women" and "not being submissive to men" but, at the end of the day, it is quite simply ingrained in the female psyche and libido that she respects a strong man. Note that I did not say "controlling man" or "domineering man" (though some undoubtedly like that as well) but "Strong" man... as in confident, in control of himself, self-assured, capable in a pinch. I dont care what your society teaches you or what tripe you get on television or radio or whatever over there, but... if your W does not respect you she will not be attracted to you and you have zero... I repeat ZERO chance of saving your MR.

And part of that is not lying down for her when she is wayward and cheating on you. I applaud your plan to get back into the MBR by first making a room for your daughter... but I would not delay in doing it. Don't find excuses but ACT.

[ovrrnbw]

I have read many threads were LBS wants to or has some sort of contact with sister/brother/father in-law.

Yea, don't do it. I understand the urge. I was the worst. Go read my thread (click my name, click show forum posts, click page 1). I was doing the full court press. It only made things worse.

I would stay very noncommittal about talking with your sister in law. Have plans. She won't tell you the truth anyways, her sister comes first.

"No one" goes to church

Isn't that the Viking way? I kid, I kid. But seriously, don't worry about it, you can't control it.

Definitely sleep in the master bed.

[Mumin]

With that said, claim the MBR as yours. If she decides to sleep elsewhere, make it manly. A big picture of a motorcycle or an airplane. New black comforter and bedding.

Little words, much action.

If asked:
H:"I believe it is best I sleep in here"

Thanks R2C to the point and simple!!


Hoosjim thanks for your points!
I wasn't really clear on the MAN and WOMAN thing. I am fully aware of that there ARE differences and if I have learn anything on that regard, it is that i havn't made them clear enough in our R.
My point here was simply to make it clear for others on the forum that the fact that we are married doesn't really matter where we live. There is no real "belief" that will keep her in the marriage. In some cultures marriage it self has a lot more value (rather than just a fun party and some legal consequences).
So for me this means DB and getting Respect is even MORE important. With W or with any other woman.

I applaud your plan to get back into the MBR by first making a room for your daughter... but I would not delay in doing it.

Thanks! Looking at furniture today, will order next week when we are away skiing.

Go read my thread

Actually read most of your thread already since you earlier said our sitch's were similar.
Totally agree.
However (while it may be early in) I see a difference. Your W was asking you all these questions about "at lake?" "who u with?" etc. Mine is dead silent almost all of the time.
I will maintain my current approach for a while but "don't do what doesn't work" will come in to play eventually I guess.

Also, I realized that I have never used the word affair or unfaithful when talking to W. Whats your take on this?

[hoosjim]

I wasn't really clear on the MAN and WOMAN thing. I am fully aware of that there ARE differences and if I have learn anything on that regard, it is that i havn't made them clear enough in our R.
My point here was simply to make it clear for others on the forum that the fact that we are married doesn't really matter where we live. There is no real "belief" that will keep her in the marriage. In some cultures marriage it self has a lot more value (rather than just a fun party and some legal consequences).
So for me this means DB and getting Respect is even MORE important. With W or with any other woman.

Understood, thanks for clarifying. It's just that sometimes with a not insignificant number of folks it is not always clear... and that is the problem. Societal and sociological "norms" change... but we as human creatures do not. It creates conflicts with who we are and what are relationships are meant to be. It is not at all unusual these days for men/husbands to become "overly domesticated" (for lack of a better term)-- too caught up in caring for the children's every whim (and here's a big tip-- it's actually really good for kids to suffer some hardship and learn to figure things out on their own) and losing sight of attracting their "mate". Some of this is natural and has proven scientifically to be so (husbands and wives both become more "domestic" and nurturing/protective when children are born, it is hard wired into us), but society/media increasingly tells us to do/expect certain things, act certain ways, and distracts us with, well... distractions. It is disheartening that so much of media/society these days is focused on "doing what feels good" and pursuing "happiness for yourself" at all costs, and seems to accept if not outright encourage the free trading out of old relationships for new ones. (My best friends Ex-Wife-- my own wife's sometimes bff-- believes that marriages should be a 10 year contract that come up for reconsideration and renewal every 5 or 10 years-- yikes!) It is also unfortunate that so much of the man/woman dichotomy and gender/relationship roles has become so conflated with political positions and arguments that you almost can't have an intelligent/objective discussion about it anymore... but the differences, as I noted previously, are important, have NOTHING to do with equality/inequality/opportunity/oppression, but EVERYTHING to do with the strength and health of our marital relationships. I am gratified to be able to come to this forum and still discuss things in that light.

Anyway, Keep up the good work, and hang in there. Demand the best of yourself, and demand/expect/work-for the relationship you deserve (and not necessarily just the one "society" seems to indicate you "should" have.)

[ovrrnbw]

Actually read most of your thread already since you earlier said our sitch's were similar.
Totally agree.
However (while it may be early in) I see a difference. Your W was asking you all these questions about "at lake?" "who u with?" etc. Mine is dead silent almost all of the time.
I will maintain my current approach for a while but "don't do what doesn't work" will come in to play eventually I guess.

Also, I realized that I have never used the word affair or unfaithful when talking to W. Whats your take on this?

Yea, my W still had interest in my whereabouts. You can generate this interest too. Make it a point to get to the gym 5 days a week, make it a point to dress well, make it a point to get out and be social. Smile and laugh. Look happy, confident, stand tall, shoulders back, look people in the eye, speak clearly, face your fears. Do the things that will capture a woman's attention.One thing that was funny, I downloaded snapchat and she wanted to know why. She thought I might be seeing someone else and mentioned it multiple times. Your W needs to feel the possibility that you are involved with someone else, that you won't pursue a cheater. I wasn't very confident at first, but I did the LRT and faked it at first.

Also, I realized that I have never used the word affair or unfaithful when talking to W. Whats your take on this?

I never said it until May of 18, when I retook the MBR. I just said "You are having an affair, I'm going to sleep in my bed". My W went berserk (Viking term!!!).

[Mumin]

Hi again,

Will try and write more of an update soon.
Short version, W exchanged kids while running for her bus (apparently very important bus, but didn't ask why), had time for a hug (she suggested) but kids were sitting alone in the car so I ran to them.
She didn't seem bothered that she will have seen the kids 3 days in 2 weeks. Sure a 180 on her part...
This was 3 days ago, haven't heard a single word but pretty sure she's sleeping at OMs place... S

Some days are really hard, other not so much.

Some questions I've thought of:
*I've been reading a lot here and started to wonder if I should make my "position" more clear? For instance, the way you've been acting is NOT ok. Won't share a future with you (apart from strictly kids).
*I post some things (sometimes with kids and sometimes just me) on Social media. Maybe she thinks I'm trying to show her how good I'm doing without her? I guess in a way, I am.
*What's a good response when mutual friends ask how I feel?
*Should I Send pictures of kids? For instance now that we will be away skiing without her?

[Ready2Change]

*I've been reading a lot here and started to wonder if I should make my "position" more clear? For instance, the way you've been acting is NOT ok. Won't share a future with you (apart from strictly kids).

Do it in your actions and NOT with words. Being aware of your body language and eye contact are also important. When you do speak, tone and inflects are also important.

*I post some things (sometimes with kids and sometimes just me) on Social media. Maybe she thinks I'm trying to show her how good I'm doing without her? I guess in a way, I am.

I am probably the most boring SM guy besides Steve85. I post pictures of good looking food (like eggs and bacon) maybe once every few months. I strongly suggest that you don't post anything to SM. If you have something to share with someone, get together in person. Be mysterious.

*What's a good response when mutual friends ask how I feel?

Anyone:"How are you?"
You:"I am doing fantastic! I have so much going on that I have a hard time keeping up with everything....

*Should I Send pictures of kids? For instance now that we will be away skiing without her?

I don't see a problem with this as long as you limit it. If you take 50 photos of the kids during the week, send 1. I don't get photos from my X and I don't send her any. You are responsible for your relationship and your memories with the kids. She is responsible for her relationship and taking her own photos.

[AnotherStander]

Some days are really hard, other not so much.

That's quite normal, over time the good days get more frequent!

*I've been reading a lot here and started to wonder if I should make my "position" more clear? For instance, the way you've been acting is NOT ok. Won't share a future with you (apart from strictly kids).

I wouldn't, she doesn't want you anymore (for now) so what does she care about your threats about not sharing a future with her. She thinks she doesn't want a future with you anyway. Plus it's likely to come off as some desperate threat to try and get her back. Often when the LBH figures out he can't "nice" the WAS back then he tries to "mean" her back. When that doesn't work he goes back to nice. Keeps flipping back and forth. It just looks desperate to the WAS. Like R2C said- actions not words.

*I post some things (sometimes with kids and sometimes just me) on Social media. Maybe she thinks I'm trying to show her how good I'm doing without her? I guess in a way, I am.

When it comes to SM then it's best to continue old patterns. If you hardly ever posted then don't go overboard posting content, because she'll see it as pursuit (which you've admitted it is). If you just posted stuff now and then, then continue to do that. But whatever you do, DO NOT post pics of you with a new lady, or memes about marriage, separation or divorce. She's looking for an excuse to blow up on you, don't give her one!

*What's a good response when mutual friends ask how I feel?

"Awesome, how are you?" Be short and generic. If they ask about your M then reply "we're both taking some time to think about what we want" and leave it at that. Make it about you, if they keep pushing then talk about your GAL and what you're doing to be a better person.

*Should I Send pictures of kids? For instance now that we will be away skiing without her?

It depends on her interest level. If she's asking about the kids then go ahead and send one or two of JUST the kids, not of you. If she doesn't ask or show interest at all then don't send anything.

[hoosjim]

I am probably the most boring SM guy besides Steve85. I post pictures of good looking food (like eggs and bacon) maybe once every few months. I strongly suggest that you don't post anything to SM. If you have something to share with someone, get together in person. Be mysterious.

I am not a big SM guy, either, much preferring personal interactions with folks. That said, I have a slightly different take on it than you in DB terms. I think it can actually be a valuable tool in the "Be mysterious, be fun, be attractive" area. In my own sitch, prior to DB, I had almost no SM presence. i was on FB and Twitter, but barely posted. I was, of course "friends" with my W. Thing is, my W was actually a very heavy SM user (and she still is on some, though we usually do it together), and, in fact, that was one of the chief ways OM (my former friend) targeted her. After DB and after I had passed the initial "gloom and doom and plead and beg" stage, I started to GAL in earnest. Alot of people I know and met had/have SM presences, so I amped mine up a bit. I didn't go crazy with selfies and the like, but when I saw something interesting/intriguing/beautiful (scenery, classic car i happened across, nice sunset, etc) or was having a particularly good outing or day, I would post. But here's the thing-- I didn't do it in a "show all, tell all" kind of way... I'd usually keep my comments cryptic other than to indicate/imply I was feeling great or having a good time, with the occasional funny comment thrown in... and I never directed comments or posts at my W, I'd just put them out there on my thread. Funny thing, W started noticing and "liking/loving/whatever" my posts. Even commenting, some (which i never returned). In my sitch, at least, it was a valuable way for her to see me GAL-ing and 180-ing, and, due to careful posting, being a little mysterious as well: "Wow, that looks amazing... I wonder where he is" or "Who are those people in the background but can't make out... anyone I know?"

So, while i definitely wouldn't say to spend all your time on SM, I equally as definitely wouldn't "strongly suggest you don't post anything". I think it can be and is a valuable way to connect and reconnect with folks as long as you don't overdo it and dont use it so much that she always knows where you are, and, as well, can be a window into your "new life" for your W... a window that you fully control the shutters/blinds on.