Divorce because I betrayed her trust - PART 7

[DaB35]

Hi All - little bit of advice needed.

I need to fill in forms for the finance order. I now understand what I have to do; the L has replied to my long email of questions telling me which bits to ignore, what to add, what to change if necessary (on anything relating to me) etc.

Everything needs to be printed out and signed by hand, and posted off to them with a cheque (some Ls are seemingly not in the 21st Century still!).

Should I print out everything, plus print the guidelines, fill in my bits, then post them to W to finish (or leave them at the house next time I'm there)? Am I right in feeling that W should be the one sending the paperwork off and cheque - D was her idea.

I don't want to resort to sticking post-it notes or page marker tabs on each page saying "sign here", "ignore this bit", "put your up to date credit card and pension balances here", telling W exactly what to do. I don't want to write the cheque for her either.
She needs to get used to me not stepping in to help her - so how do I do this in such a way that is not passive-aggressive, but just pleasant and non-confrontational?

[LH19]

D,

This is one of the areas when I don't get caught up in the philophy of let them do the "heavy lifting". When you get to this point you are going to get D'd so do what's best and easiest for you. It's not your job to teach her lessons. Do what you need to do get this over with and move on with your life.

[DaB35]

Hi All, small update.

I sent off the paperwork in the post on Friday evening. W will probably get it today.
I printed the guidelines/helpsheet and put everything in order so she shouldn't have trouble filling in the right bits.

We need to send the L certain certificates relating to the house when it was built. I've asked the local authority for some, but one is (I'm positive) in the house still. I left a load of paperwork in my study in case the buyers/estate agents wanted to look at them. W says she looked 'thoroughly' and couldn't find it. I don't have it at my parents' house, so I think W just hasn't looked properly. I'm waiting for her to demand I go to the house this week. I am going on Saturday with my sister to get a few things anyway, but I don't intend to take time out of my week to go up before then. I'm not worrying too much; I'll just be honest and say, "I can't go up til Saturday" and leave it at that. I won't explain why.

One query - assuming we see each other soon (to sort out the remaining bits and bobs in the house that are too small to go on the official finance order), let's say we end up having a conversation like below (with W instigating, not me), which gives me a chance to offer validating statements:

W - "[states a feeling]."
Me - "OK it seems like you're feeling [x] about [y], is that right?"
W - "Yes...[talks some more]"
Me - "Right, that must be very [emotion] for you."
W - "So you agree [y]?"

What do I respond with? I thought validating was not about agreeing with the thing, just acknowledging how they feel about the thing.

[LH19]

W: This D is a slow process
D: you sound frustrated. Is that how you feel?
W: yes that is exactly how how I feel. Don't you agree?
D: yes it was a very slow process or no i understand why you would feel that way but I actually think it moved very quickly

Doesn't matter if you agree with her or not you understood how she felt about it.

[DaB35]

Little update on things

Gym - now up to 60kg on abs machine, 80kg on leg press, 35kg on Pecs, 45kg on leg extension and low row.
Seeing a more obvious difference now. Massive confidence boost.

Had a call from property L. Completion on house in a couple of weeks. This is it.
Need to finalise the storage lock up I've reserved and check my stuff will all fit. W said I could have a few things that she can't be bothered to remove; thought I might as well take them then I don't have to buy replacements later.

I've moved forward a significant amount, but still sad W threw this all away. I'm going to the house on Saturday with my sister, to take a few more valuables back. She still believes W has been led to do this, and is upset that after reaching out to her offering help, W has totally ignored her. I have validated my sister when she's told me this. She also says "She thought leaving you and selling up was the easy option. I don't know why she thought that - it's actually the most difficult option, as neither of you have a place to live and you have to start again. Why does she think that's easy?"

My sister mentioned that she's had problems with her H recently (trust and non-comms, no EA or PA evidence though). She said "I wouldn't leave him just because I was unhappy or for one thing, only if there was violence or something very serious like if he got another girl pregnant and kept it from me. I've put far too much effort into the house to throw all that away and I don't want to undo all that work." We've been talking a lot recently, which is good.

I wish W was more like her, but she's more "You did something wrong, that's it, it's over, no conversation."
I never understood this sentiment - it's very commonplace now - in songs, soap operas, films etc. Wrong the person you love, and people are more frequently being shown the solution of: "This was wrong, but I'm not going to bother weighing up all the good things, even though there are way more of them. They don't matter now - I'm just going to end it."
I try not to dwell on this but it's hard sometimes.

I know that I have to keep at that picnic and let the lighthouse keep shining and keep it in perfect condition. That way, when W, her family, or her friends turn back, they'll see Dan 2.0.

[DS9]

Hey Dan,

I hope settlement goes smooth from here. I found it helpful to do a list of stuff I needed to do in the lead to moving out.

The memories hurt, but it'll be ok mate.

I think your XW also puts personal happiness at all cost first, in contrast to your sister. It's a selfish mindset, but look around and everywhere is spruiking finding your personal happiness, you dont need a man, and divorce is ok.

Keep that lighthouse shining mate.

Great effort on the gym front too.

Cheers DS

[DaB35]

Hi DS

Yes I've started a list - men like lists!

I agree that W has has been putting herself first above the M/R, and certainly has been told this by others. As you say, the message is being reinforced and planted in people's minds everywhere: when things get tough, quit and run away rather than braving the problem.

This is not to say I have not been selfish either. I have, in that I kept my problems hidden, didn't open up, and just did the NGS thing of doing the same thing unchanged for years and simply expecting it to work out by itself without any significant effort on my part. Much like the cheeseless tunnel analogy in DR.

However, one of my 180s has been to address this. IC took 6 months and we did lots of in depth analysis about how I was brought up, learned behaivour, how I interact with others/how I think they view me, past R dynamics, my M, etc. Lots of light bulbs were switched on towards the end of last year, which explained a lot.

Main weakness was feeling that I had to be perfect all the time, having grown up feeling that way, and not be seen to be fallible or doing things wrong. So when I did do things wrong, W would really be angry with me (even minor things) as if I'd totally let her down. I felt I couldn't tell W my problems or the fact that I disliked how some of her friends or family would treat her. She just put up with it, or would moan but then stop talking about it quickly.
Unfortunately I knew nothing of validation so looking back I don't think I helped much at all.

My IC made me realise I had been very stressed and depressed. Depressed because I hadn't really achieved my main aspirations and had to 'settle' for a job in a sector that I didn't have passion for like my other creative role. Felt I'd let everyone down. Felt I wasn't making as much money as the other men in W's family (they're all richer and more scientifically minded). Jealousy I guess. How silly. Always felt that her parents felt I wasn't pushing myself; I don't think that's right because they were always very pleasant to me and were very kind; never had any problems with in-laws.

My online addiction had manifested itself as a kind of reaction to that - something so far removed from who I really am as a person that it allowed me to conceal the issue further. I'd feel negative, suppress the emotions, they built up, I retreat into the addiction world, temporary release from stress/depression, then go back to normal life This is 'Reconstitution' as my IC put it, which can be very quick or very slow depending on the person. For me it was very quick.

Less of an issue now - I love my job, my coworkers are nice people, and my boss constantly praises me, so I have loyalty there. Plus I still make time for my creative stuff in the evenings and weekends, so I get the best of both worlds.

I had not really felt stress before so didn't know what it really was, because I wasn't outwardly showing everyone I was stressed. But it showed itself in other ways - I had severe psoriasis on my scalp for the last 5/6 years, some of my stubble hair fell out (alopecia), and then grew back a long time later, this time with white hairs. Another feature was I became introverted to an even greater degree, not disclosing my thoughts or worries to W, my family or friends for years (W would always say, "You don't say any words!" and say this in front of others when we were out, which upset me). As my W was so open about her problems to all and sundry, I felt I could't tell her I had problems too as that would stress her out even more! Now I think how stupid I was to have those thoughts!

Weirdly, since I've done IC and been going to the gym and GALing, my psoriasis has all but gone, and my stubble alopecia is no more! My body image is much better and my skin looks good with my grooming 'routine' - simple ingredients. Tip - rubbing a few drops of rosehip oil into the face every morning is great!

Lots of rambling thoughts here. I might have repeated some of this in earlier threads, but good to boil it down further and be able to move forward with a greater degree of confidence.

The lighthouse has been repainted and upgraded for sure. The picnic is delicious right now!

[DaB35]

Got back from the house with my sister. We took a few more items of mine away.

It was the first time I'd been there since mid-December. My parents' and sister's Xmas cards were still on the dining table when we got in.

W has started to pack up her stuff - her desk and bookcase are dismantled; clothes all in suitcases, she's taken all the pictures down off the walls, rolled up the rug, started boxing up/bubble-wrapping crockery. I also noticed that she had put all the cards she gave me (Valentines/Birthday etc) in a pile on the desk in my study. She has kept all the cards I gave her in her room however. I was expecting her to have thrown them away.

I felt sad. It was a real physical representation of the fact that she is a WAW, D is almost done, and has fired me as H.

I got the stuff I needed and sister helped me look for paperwork to do with the sale. She said "Why is she giving this all up? Such a waste." On the way there she told me about how her friends have had problems with their Hs. One had a gambling problem and remortgaged their house, another was swindled out of their share in a company and lost money but hid that from his W out of shame, another has a lazy H who won't do anything with their 2nd child, etc. She said "They've said what you did is so tame in comparison to all that. Doesn't she realise that people go through lots together, it's not 100% perfect all the time, and that you need to take a step back at the bigger picture, then you work at it. And, all of those couples are stronger now because they talk more."


I will book a day off work this week and go up again with my family to box up my things (paperwork mainly, but also dismantle the wardrobe I'm taking, take shelves down and touch up the paint on the wall when they're down etc.).

Advice needed:

I need to arrange with W to go through final items. Was thinking of emailing this:
"Hi W. Just thinking that we need to finalise the sharing of the smaller items that aren't on the asset list. I'm thinking of the bedding and towels, stuff in the shed, kitchen items, and the *soft toys. I was thinking of Sunday (16th) if that works for you."

Is that OK?

*W and I had a collection of Jellycat toys, I'd say around 20. They were a lovely part of our R and M. I would sometimes buy one as a Valentine's gift or if she was feeling glum about something. I was good at 'animating them' by moving their arms/heads, and she'd always laugh without fail. She even gave them all personalities and backstories! When we were messing about with them and making each other laugh, it was one of the times when I forgot about all my issues and problems, and was just 'present'. Things like that I really miss. They are all currently stuffed into the top of a wardrobe in the bedroom. They haven't been moved since around September I think. They brought so much joy to us. I know they're just toys but it meant something to us. Every couple has their own little quirks and silly things they do, and that was one of ours.


So, let's say she agrees and we meet in a week's time. I'm thinking - go there looking good and confident (which is becoming more natural for me now), haircut, cologne, very presentable.
How do I act - bright and breezy? Quietly confident and calm? Pleasant and non-emotional?

[DaB35]

House completion will be in a few weeks.

L rang me Friday, left message asking if 17th Feb is fine! Way too short notice. Neither of us have time to clear out our stuff. They're terrible!

I will arrange the lock up this week. My parents have said they'll go halves on a larger unit as they're starting some home improvements and will take advantage of the space. Gives them a chacne to sort through stuff in their house. The furniture I'm kepping plus my other items will go in there. I'll then take a day off work Friday, and go up to the house with my parents to box as many of my things up as I can.

A week should be enough time.

Haven't emailed W yet about the final bits and bobs we haven't decided on.

One thing I noticed regarding the cards I had sent W over the years; she'd left them at the top of the pile (i.e. very conspicous) of stuff she'd put in my study. The cards I'd sent her are in a box in her room. I genuinely thought she'd throw them away. I'm probably searching for meaning for something that isn't there, but thought it odd how she'd leave it there visible, rather than perhaps hide it amongst paperwokr or DVDs or something.

Any advice/thoughts on my longer posts above would be really helpful as I'd appreciate any insight (or 2x4s, or 4x8s!).

[Traveler]

Hi DaB35,

Is arranging meeting to divide the little things necessary? In my case, I left them to my ex-wife in exchange for a proposed dollar amount at closing. You could also propose a no-cash you take X and she takes Y. She can, of course, always come back with a counter-proposal. Sounds like the jellcats are really important to you.

This meeting sounds contrived. Is your point to try to make her see your changes?