Thanks for remembering KML and for caring enough to ask. We left for Florida a month ago today and got back 3 weeks ago Saturday. I certainly don’t want to hijack Andrews thread and change the focus here to me. I guess I have plenty to report about all sorts of stuff - probably enough for pages of posts. I just have not been feeling it here lately so I’ve not been posting much. Headed out of town for what I’m really hoping will be a fun, fun annual weekend event in Chicago with many many friends. I’ll try to gather the motivation to update my thread next week. Thanks again for asking. Sorry Andrew for interrupting.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Well thank God we are finally addressing the elephant in the room. There might still be hope for some sanity here at the place I’ve taken to calling Krazytown because, well, because it seems to have gone that direction of late. I know ive said this before on other threads but this is supposed to be a group of people supporting solid, healthy actions for life and love and trying to help each other hold to them. That clearly was why I came here so many years ago and I still see those in new comers holding visitors here accountable. I can tell, and have been told off the boards, that since have decided it won’t matter and won’t change anything anyhow, so why bother. But others read these posts even if a few here are off in fantasy land. I can’t predict the future anymore than anyone else can, but it sure seems like this Surviving D side of the board lately is serving to feed some of us back in the other side yet again with going along to get along even when we don’t at all agree. Is it any wonder why the D rate for 2nd and 3rd Ds is what it is if people are going into the next M before the last is even completed? And to somehow think this is all just fine and should be celebrated... I’m sorry, I just cannot support that.
My state has a law that prohibits anyone from re-marrying before 6 months has past after D. I even had to acknowledge my understanding of that law while under oath before my D was granted. I thought at the time what a silly law. Guess my states fathers were smarter than I thought they were.
I dont expect Andrew to listen to reason - especially from me. But at least the rest of us should not cast away common sense and go even deeper into Krazytown. thanks to some if you for restoring my faith in my fellow DBrs Again.
Honestly, I too was surprised by the round of congratulations, but I added mine because Andrew has shown us that he will do what he will do, regardless of anyone offering other viewpoints, and because it sometimes seems like politeness goes by the boards in the swinging of the 2x4s around here. I value courtesy. I also value honesty which is why my congratulations were lukewarm, at best.
Would I be engaged to a married man? No. In fact I stopped a conversation with a guy very early on when he said his divorce wouldn't be finalized for a month or two. I don't date married people, period. I remember all too well what it felt like to go to mediation every week hoping for a miracle yet knowing that my husband was flying off to the left coast a few days later to rendezvous with some OW. I desperately wanted to save my marriage, and I will not participate in anything that is remotely romantic with a married person. I recognize that not everyone feels the same.
When I found out BG#1 had been married twice, I knew he wasn't someone I would date. I did not want to be #3, as statistically that's got a 25% chance of succeeding. Again, I recognize that this is not the dealbreaker for others that it is for me.
Andrew, I wish for you happiness, and a continuation of the life you built for yourself as a newly single person - meaning, now that you've found yourself, don't let him go.
Here are the facts: you are engaged yes, but to a woman who is married to another man. It does not matter that they've been apart for however long it's been. As others have said, your parents wouldn't be taking an ad out about this while she's married, of all things. I know it bothers you that this engagement isn't being announced. Why not explore what it is about that that bothers you. I know there must be some time in and amidst the family fun where you can have a period of quiet reflection. Perhaps during a walk?
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Honestly, I too was surprised by the round of congratulations, but I added mine because Andrew has shown us that he will do what he will do, regardless of anyone offering other viewpoints, and because it sometimes seems like politeness goes by the boards in the swinging of the 2x4s around here. I value courtesy. I also value honesty which is why my congratulations were lukewarm, at best.
bttfly,
Well said!!!
I wish I could convince Andrew that it's in everyone's best interest for him to slow down. (Everyone includes Andrew, B and their families.) In the end, everything may work out just fine; no telling. But, from afar, there seems to be some strange psychology going on. Why date married women? Why get engaged so soon? I suspect, but I don't really know, that it's probably fear that's driving Andrew. Fear of being alone. Fear of running out of time. Fear of never having again what he once had. We all seem to have a self destructive aspect to ourselves, but it's really difficult to watch the slow motion train wreck from a relatively objective viewpoint. The best I can do is say congratulations and wish and hope that it all works out. I truly believe Andrew is a good guy and I hope he doesn't get hurt again.
I know you will do what you do Andrew. You couldn’t wait for some reason and had to do it then and there. But the shockI think is your expectation that you would get the same kind of celebration and reception when asking a married woman to marry you. Even people in your real life are saying she’s still married” and you seem to think this is no big deal. I am truly shocked by that. It’s a big deal, even if the feelings are gone, but didn’t she give recon a shot a year ago? Even if there was no chance, this should be a closed and done deal. It’s not like she is knocked up and you need to marry her ASAP. You’ve been dating a few months.
And you needed to look at the texts to make sure her story matches up? If you had any doubts, you shouldn’t be popping the question.
Like butterfly, I would say to really sit down and be real with yourself as to why you couldn’t wait until she was truly a free woman. What your urgency was. And why the fact a grand announcement hasn’t happened is bothering you. Do you realize you probably should have waited? Are you dealing in reality right now??
Practically overnight your relationship with a woman you claimed to have loved who lived with you needed. Shortly after you were in deep in a new R in which you were engaged to her before she was divorced with in a blink of an eye. You took on a whole new family with a minor child. Why? I would dig super deep on this one. Be honest and real with yourself. It will make going forward much wholesome and honest.
I truly believe Andrew is a good guy and I hope he doesn't get hurt again.
That's nice doodler but what about the men in these marriages? I feel like this whole point just does not get addressed or gets skipped over. All we get is Andrew's side which, in the case of at least B, was obviously not accurate. Maybe the men are creating threads in new comers at this very moment?? Fact of the matter is, offering congratulations to a repeat OM offender who is now engaged to a married woman on a divorce BUSTING forum is down right bizarre. Andrew has been the exact opposite of a DB'r for the past year and half or so.
I get Andrew has friends on here and people are looking out for him. But that is not the point of this forum. They all seem to be friends off of here, so maybe it is more appropriate to take the talk of dating married women to a FB message chat? I thought this forum was about saving marriages and creating healthy relationships.
I get what you're saying and I agree with most of what you said.
Not long ago I told Andrew he was the OM, and that he was doing the same thing that he so hated when there was an OM in his wife's life (now his ex-wife). I also told him my backstory. I dated my wife (now ex-wife) when she was married. She told me how terrible her husband was and the she was going to get a divorce. I'd never been married and I thought I was truly helping a damsel in distress. I was the good guy; the knight in shining armor. It wasn't until my own marital troubles started percolating that I realized I'd been the OM. I'd been the bad guy.
I'm fairly certain that Andrew thinks of himself as the good guy. Cognitive dissonance can create a huge blind spot; I wish Andrew could see through his own fog. But, completely alienating Andrew is not going to solve the problem.
And, I really enjoy giving him holy h3ll about his haggis poutine.
Bttfly: I remember sitting in that courtroom praying for a Hail Mary and that my ex wouldn’t go through with the D. And I just cried away in the courtroom as our divorce was being granted. The bailiff has to bring me tissues. It finally hit me it was over.
Her H could be hoping for the same. And he is going to have to grieve all over again when that divorce is final. And for him to find out before that divorce is final is cruel. She stayed married to use him for his health insurance and for all anyone knows, like Pinn said, that could have been him on newcomers hoping for the last bit of hope. Him being a doormat hoping she would come back.
Fear drives us to do things we would never imagine ourselves to do. I was guilty of it. When I was 18 my life turned to complete hell when my parents divorced. My dad moved out and in with his OW. He was my rock. My mom completely fell apart. I was trying to survive. Everyone left me. And I grasped on to my exH because I was in such fear of being alone that I left all more morals in the wind. He was friend’s boyfriend.
I live with that every day of my life. And even though me and that friend are still close 20 years later, I have to live with hurting her. And it was so out of character for me, but I was just so scared because I lost everyone and everything and I was scared of being alone, I did something horrible. My fear over ruled my morals and what I new was right. Not because I was feeling less. Because I felt scared for my life. And if not for getting my daughter out of this, if I could go back in time and have a do-over, I wouldn’t have let my fear cloud my judgment. I’m going to bring that to my grave.
Acting of fear could hurt a lot of other people other than ourselves.
Thanks all. Just finishing up breakfast here while everyone else sleeps so a - for me - brief reply. I'm pretty much the only morning person. What everyone says is very valid. I'm not going to dispute that nor quibble over details that TBH don't matter.
I appreciate the care that is part of everyone's commentary and yes - even doodler's somewhat warped sense of humour.
I am indeed struggling with the fact that under many forms of definition that I am indeed acting as an OM here. And did this past spring as well. For all that I know B may have reconciled with her serial cheater H. And yes, I do only get half of the story despite my efforts to validate and verify. As far as S's STBX goes, while I have seen text messages and heard from S that things are very over between them, I am obliged to take it only as a matter of trust that her narrative is indeed the truth.
I don't live in the shadows. Which is why my situation being kept quiet bothers. I have made the choice though that I do not control S's narrative. That would be inappropriate.
Life isn't easy. Life transitions even less so. That is why I value the diversity of opinions provided here even when they diverge from my own or are contrary to the path I have set my feet on.
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Dawn - the water park is a lot of fun. Certainly aimed at families with pre-teens. Everything is well thought out and the staff are fabulous (just got a second cup of coffee). The rides are well engineered although there are a "lot" of stairs to get to the top. Little to my surprise despite scary rides and some fairly lengthy swims (I'm not a strong swimmer), my angina isn't giving me any issue at all. I would certainly recommend this place. The only real issue is being in a room with late night people as an early riser That and angsty teenagers.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
My XH was engaged only a month or two after we signed our separation agreement. Pretty sure OW made lots of announcements on FB and tagged him which is how the vast majority of his friends and family found out. Some he had to “unfriend” because of it, I’m sure. There lots of things being said about the two of them, no doubt, but no one will say it to their faces...and in a year or two...no one will care what they did to his family. That’s just the way things are in this world of ours.
TBH...the engagement didn’t bother me too much. Only because it just highlighted the desperation XH was feeling to legitimize his cheating and reinvent himself. It’s been almost a year now and thankfully, I have gotten to a place where I could really care less. I wish him well TBH. Not because he deserves it but because I don’t want my kids’ lives to be disrupted any more than they have been by adding another person to the family five or ten years from now.
I do worry about you Andrew. I know you are a sincere person who, like me, enjoys the stability and comfort that a LTR brings to your life. I’m not a serial dater...could never date more than one person at a time. I have a big heart and a tendency to go “all in” when maybe caution should be the order of the day. I’m working on it. Breaking up with Jack because I was pretty clear in my mind it would not work out long term was a new one for me. Old DV would have probably waited another year and made 100 more compromises on what I need and want from a relationship. I really, really hope that isn’t what you are doing because eventually, I think it will catch up to you.
BTW...I admire your ability to take all of the 2X4’s without becoming defensive and angry. I also think you should really, really reflect on what is being said and wonder about the motivations of someone who is in such a rush to get married again before she is divorced...especially someone you’ve only been dating for a few months. Her comment about flower lady being jealous was interesting. It sounded to me like she had been in a competition and is pleased with herself that she “won”. For your sake Andrew, I hope the wedding date you set is at least a year away... two would be preferable. (((HUGS)))
That and angsty teenagers.