Patience and Limbo (Core Thread 4)

[Core]

Ovr-how far in did you take the bed back and what was the reaction? If this was the first few months again, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

LH-reconciling to me means counseling, dates, family time. We are doing family time only. It seems like a false start yet I know with almost certainty that she was serious at one time to reconcile. She can act but not as well as the panic attack days after asking to reconcile.

I've no way of knowing if I'm in a slow reconcile or just being strung along. I see Sandi, HJ, Steves and many more posts in other threads about when the WW truly being ready to reconcile. I don't think I'm there yet not miles away either. Have amy others asked for time after agreeing to recon? Either we are slow or Im a chump. If I'm a chump, I want the mbr. If I'm not, then I want to slowly start flirting to temp check. Problem is avoidant wife means I have to mind read.

Is telling W my boundaries a method to build respect or does that count as an R chat? Next time wife tells me to do something (unless its politely of course) in front of the kids, I plan on telling her that if that happens in the future, I will lose respect for her, I will take me and the kids to another room and I will let the kids know that isn't how a spouse should talk to the other. Is that too much? Is that a boundary or control?

[Core]

I also dont get how Im supposed to get kids in to school/daycare and signed up if W isnt committed. If we register them, we lose plenty of money and cannot sustain if we D. We mentioned SAHW until both kids are in school...could a WAW/WW need space and stay in their ways that long?

[LH19]

C,

Definitely set boundaries. If she disrespects you in any way politely ask her not to do that anymore. Ex. Core you’re in idiot. Please don’t talk to me that way. But you’re an idiot. This conversation is over and you walk away. Stay consistent with it.

I’ll give you my opinion on what’s going on. Your W probably wants to reconcile because your kids are so young. The problem is she doesn’t have the same feelings with you as she did with the om. She’s not emotionally mature enough to understand why that is the case. So she will play family with you until she gets her next fix or file for divorce. This could go on for years. Again, your best bet is to work on yourself and become AMOAFWL and then at some point you may decide your done.

[wayfarer]

So as a newbie LBW I tend to stay away from WW/WAW wife posts. LBW and LBH have to behavior similarly but differently due to societal norms as well as gender dynamics me as a LBW would come off as shrill, a controlling b**th, crazy (my favorite of them all) if I assert myself too much or overtly command respect. But you have like 10 guys telling you exactly what you need to do and you just aren't listening and it's honestly painful to read. None of us newbies are good at this 100% of the time. IMHO probably not even 60% of the time. But your exceptions on all of this are insane if you plan to stand.The absolute shortest time period on a turn around on this is 6 months. On average affairs peter out between 6-12 months. But depending on your circumstance a single affair could last years. Also depending on your circumstances she could split from OM and find a new OM immediately after or during who knows. Or have them both. She is not rational and I don't know why you keep behaving as if she is. What you think is disrespect is her laying her sh** bare for you. Doesn't matter if it's true. Doesn't mean it makes sense. Doesn't matter if it's cruel. That's what she's feeling in that exact moment. You don't like it shut it down. But your wasting oportunities to validate her and maybe get to why she thinks that is her truth right now. But most of all you have to stop taking it personally, none of this is about you. It was never about you. No matter what she says it's not about you. For the love of all that is holy say that to yourself like a million times. You don't deserve this. But it hasn't been nor will it ever be about you, stop thinking, acting, proceeding as if it is.

I've no way of knowing if I'm in a slow reconcile or just being strung along. I see Sandi, HJ, Steves and many more posts in other threads about when the WW truly being ready to reconcile. I don't think I'm there yet not miles away either. Have amy others asked for time after agreeing to recon? Either we are slow or Im a chump. If I'm a chump, I want the mbr. If I'm not, then I want to slowly start flirting to temp check. Problem is avoidant wife means I have to mind read.

Umm neither. Just because she said the word reconcile doesn't mean she meant it. All of the vets say reconciling isn't a continuation of the confusion. It's clear in actions and words. Not lip service. Not half hearted attempts to check off the I-did-everything-I-could check boxes. She is neither stringing you a long nor is she reconciling. You guys are firmly in limbo like the lot of us newbies. Limbo isn't stringing along. Stringing along is an intentional act to keep you firmly as an option while pursuing other options. Limbo is them really not knowing what they want and vacillating between hourly, daily, weekly, what ever that particular WS MO is. If she was stringing you along she's being living her other life but making sure she's a huge presence in yours.Making her self known and available but only just enough to keep you chasing. She is in your home. She is fighting with you. She is there with the kids. You aren't being strung along. But she's not reconciling. Stop rushing. I've been dealing with this only a month less than you. I know I don't have a chance of my husband truly making up his mind any time soon. He says he's leaving in April. My H is sleeping with someone else. He's with her 3 days a week. But he's with our family 4. He sleeps under my roof almost every night. There's only ever been 3 nights he hasn't come home. He makes family time. He buys small gifts for me still but won't touch me. In a lot of aspects he's being the husband I wish he had been all along. Absolutely nothing he says or does makes any sense any day ever. Even if he does actually go he's still not going to know what he wants. Because he's not rational. He's a broken toy and has no idea how to fix himself so he's running as fast as he can to a new life. But like your W he's not ready to let go of the old one just yet, because we're in limbo. Just like you. But you have to realize even if she's only half in the marriage means she still in. So you need to either accept where you're at and roll with limbo or make a move that you are willing to see through fruition. You're situation is just as murky as mine. Maybe a bit less touch and go. She might be leaning in more than my H. But she isn't all in. No where near it. And no where in your threads does she give that impression.

Is telling W my boundaries a method to build respect or does that count as an R chat? Next time wife tells me to do something (unless its politely of course) in front of the kids, I plan on telling her that if that happens in the future, I will lose respect for her, I will take me and the kids to another room and I will let the kids know that isn't how a spouse should talk to the other. Is that too much? Is that a boundary or control?

You need to be way more clear about what exactly it is that she's saying to you that you think is so disrespectful because I'm really struggling to understand what's your line for disrespect. How would any of us know what is happening is true disrespect or you blowing the situation out of proportion? Next she's your wife, and a co-parent with you, at the very least your roommate. She is well within her rights to ask or frankly tell you to do things. Trying to dictate how she approaches you seems incredibly controlling. Should she ask you nicely? Yup. But saying "Core do the dishes" isn't out of line. Calling you a punk ** b**ch who can't ever lift a finger around there is disrespect. You guys aren't communicating on the same wave length right now. You two aren't even living in the same reality right now.Your expectations for the kind of communication a loving husband and wife have are really inappropriate for this situation, and are only going to lead to disappointment for you and failure on her part. I also really can't figure out why you think she gives a d*mn that you'd lose respect for her over pretty much anything much less feeling she's being disrespectful to you. If that really mattered do you think she'd be disrespectful in the first place? If she is incredibly unnecessarily rude all you need to say is "Yeah I'm not ok with you talking to me like that. I'll be happy to take out the garbage and pick up the dog crap but I'm not going to be treated like that. You have no reason to speak to me like that. I don't speak to you like that." End of conversation. That's not an R talk. Why would that be an R talk? Next and most importantly your kids are really really little sitting them down and basically saying "mommy's being a big b**ch, that isn't how we talk to each other" is insane. Like completely inappropriate. That is some super passive aggressive using your kids as a pawn messed up stuff. You need to check yourself. Do you have an IC? If you don't you need to get one. You need professional and completely unbiased help here. You need to learn what is age appropriate and what isn't parenting skills. And you need to learn to stop reacting to literally everything. Your kids need one rational, grounded parent. An IC is the best method to address these things to make sure you're there and stay there through this.

I also dont get how Im supposed to get kids in to school/daycare and signed up if W isnt committed. If we register them, we lose plenty of money and cannot sustain if we D. We mentioned SAHW until both kids are in school...could a WAW/WW need space and stay in their ways that long?

Lastly, I don't know what this even means. Your kids lives don't stop because you don't know what the future holds. Get them registered for what they need to be registered for. The courts will figure out the division of cost later if need be. Why are you slowing down or stopping entirely a needed process right now based on a possibility in the future that you have no control over? And yes she could need space and stay in her ways that long. She could be this way the rest of her life. You need to accept that as a possibility sooner than later.

[Core]

LH- I think you may be right there and I'm sure definitely on point where she may be looking to get the same feelings OM gave her. I'm going to keep nipping disrespect in the bud and keep ok being AMOAFWL. Thanks for keeping up on my sitch.

Wayfarer, On a cell, not sure how to make this look good so adding my stuff in italics below. Thanks for reading on my sitch and sharing your thoughts.

But you have like 10 guys telling you exactly what you need to do and you just aren't listening and it's honestly painful to read. None of us newbies are good at this 100% of the time. IMHO probably not even 60% of the time. But your exceptions on all of this are insane if you plan to stand.

Just this AM W said "can I ask that I sleep in the MBR tonight, its been uncomfortable in the other room and I havent been in the mbr in days." She asked in a polite and a little anxious tone. As an avoidant, she's finally letting me know what she wants and disrupting that openness I don't want to hurt her, despite all shes done. I am going to take the mbr however for the kids sakes, so hopefully neither parent are in their rooms.

What you think is disrespect is her laying her sh** bare for you. Doesn't matter if it's true. Doesn't mean it makes sense. Doesn't matter if it's cruel. That's what she's feeling in that exact moment. You don't like it shut it down. But your wasting oportunities to validate her and maybe get to why she thinks that is her truth right now. But most of all you have to stop taking it personally, none of this is about you. It was never about you. No matter what she says it's not about you. For the love of all that is holy say that to yourself like a million times. You don't deserve this. But it hasn't been nor will it ever be about you, stop thinking, acting, proceeding as if it is.

Im avoiding word for word things as this is an open forum. Its not bare open stuff....thats only when I started an R chat in the past. Its business mostly. Am example, in front of the kids she said "Thats stupid" in a dismissive tone when I told her something I wanted to do for the family. D4 told her that it wasnt nice. If a 4 year old sees it as wrong, its messed up. Another example is I told our S1 he couldnt have a toy he saw which was for a friend. I told him I didnt mean for you to see it and I have to take it away. W says, "dont talk to him like that, that is putting blame on him". She does that in front of both kids. My IC agreed on that one that a comment like that needs to occur away from kids. I do like your point. I keep making it about me and the overall issue is her stuff. After reading this boundaries books, I see why she didnt learn them as a kid and has them backwards now.

Just because she said the word reconcile doesn't mean she meant it. All of the vets say reconciling isn't a continuation of the confusion. It's clear in actions and words. Not lip service. Not half hearted attempts to check off the I-did-everything-I-could check boxes. She is neither stringing you a long nor is she reconciling. You guys are firmly in limbo like the lot of us newbies. Limbo isn't stringing along. Stringing along is an intentional act to keep you firmly as an option while pursuing other options. Limbo is them really not knowing what they want and vacillating between hourly, daily, weekly, what ever that particular WS MO is. If she was stringing you along she's being living her other life but making sure she's a huge presence in yours.Making her self known and available but only just enough to keep you chasing. She is in your home. She is fighting with you. She is there with the kids. You aren't being strung along. But she's not reconciling. Stop rushing. I've been dealing with this only a month less than you. I know I don't have a chance of my husband truly making up his mind any time soon. He says he's leaving in April. My H is sleeping with someone else. He's with her 3 days a week. But he's with our family 4. He sleeps under my roof almost every night. There's only ever been 3 nights he hasn't come home. He makes family time. He buys small gifts for me still but won't touch me. In a lot of aspects he's being the husband I wish he had been all along. Absolutely nothing he says or does makes any sense any day ever. Even if he does actually go he's still not going to know what he wants. Because he's not rational. He's a broken toy and has no idea how to fix himself so he's running as fast as he can to a new life. But like your W he's not ready to let go of the old one just yet, because we're in limbo. Just like you. But you have to realize even if she's only half in the marriage means she still in. So you need to either accept where you're at and roll with limbo or make a move that you are willing to see through fruition.

I've been reading your sitch since you came here as well and am just appalled at has this happens. I'm sorry you're going through all this as well. The "reconcile" on my end does seem like what you mentioned yet with a slow thaw. OM was removed from all media, I have access to her phone, she asked me to keep up on IC, said she loves me, likes my validating communication etc. Could definitely all be lip service. Actions wise, she followed through on her piece, now texts me seldomly, gets treats for me while grocery shopping.


You need to be way more clear about what exactly it is that she's saying to you that you think is so disrespectful because I'm really struggling to understand what's your line for disrespect. How would any of us know what is happening is true disrespect or you blowing the situation out of proportion? Next she's your wife, and a co-parent with you, at the very least your roommate. She is well within her rights to ask or frankly tell you to do things. Trying to dictate how she approaches you seems incredibly controlling. Should she ask you nicely? Yup. But saying "Core do the dishes" isn't out of line. Calling you a punk ** b**ch who can't ever lift a finger around there is disrespect. You guys aren't communicating on the same wave length right now. You two aren't even living in the same reality right now.Your expectations for the kind of communication a loving husband and wife have are really inappropriate for this situation, and are only going to lead to disappointment for you and failure on her part.

Nice 2x4. I am wrapped in an expectation. Honestly I'm looking for respect of at least what you'd give a roommate or friend or even coworker. She is the only one in my live who commands in the way she does. Not even my boss or VP tell to do things without a decent tone, please, thank you or inflection.

I also really can't figure out why you think she gives a d*mn that you'd lose respect for her over pretty much anything much less feeling she's being disrespectful to you. If that really mattered do you think she'd be disrespectful in the first place? If she is incredibly unnecessarily rude all you need to say is "Yeah I'm not ok with you talking to me like that. I'll be happy to take out the garbage and pick up the dog crap but I'm not going to be treated like that. You have no reason to speak to me like that. I don't speak to you like that." End of conversation. That's not an R talk. Why would that be an R talk?

I really don't know if she cares about losing respect however she could be so fogged she doesnt know how shes acting.

Next and most importantly your kids are really really little sitting them down and basically saying "mommy's being a big b**ch, that isn't how we talk to each other" is insane. Like completely inappropriate. That is some super passive aggressive using your kids as a pawn messed up stuff. You need to check yourself. Do you have an IC? If you don't you need to get one. You need professional and completely unbiased help here. You need to learn what is age appropriate and what isn't parenting skills. And you need to learn to stop reacting to literally everything. Your kids need one rational, grounded parent. An IC is the best method to address these things to make sure you're there and stay there through this.

Exactly the feedback Im looking for. I do not in anyway want to use the kids nor want to be passive aggressive. What I also dont want, is D4 to learn to talk disrespectfully. She watches and copies W. Guess who gets pleases and thank yous and guess who's had to start correcting daughter on how to talk to her father? D4 has started being bossy with me, not with W. Those kids are my pride and joy and I want their heads on right. Thankfully Ive been in IC since about 2 months before BD. Unfortunately bad timing as IC had me getting in to deep stuff and I was more vulnerable but what can you do. W had to BD eventually. Im sure it ate her up daily.

I also dont get how Im supposed to get kids in to school/daycare and signed up if W isnt committed. If we register them, we lose plenty of money and cannot sustain if we D. We mentioned SAHW until both kids are in school...could a WAW/WW need space and stay in their ways that long?

Lastly, I don't know what this even means. Your kids lives don't stop because you don't know what the future holds. Get them registered for what they need to be registered for. The courts will figure out the division of cost later if need be. Why are you slowing down or stopping entirely a needed process right now based on a possibility in the future that you have no control over? And yes she could need space and stay in her ways that long. She could be this way the rest of her life. You need to accept that as a possibility sooner than later.

f we D, neither of us can afford the school or school district. We'd need to sell the house and rent apartments on the cheap side of town. Leaving them pulled away from attachments they formed with teachers. With me fixing myself and W doing whatever she is, its another level of damage to pull them from secure attachments. If D is in the cards, homeschool would be a way better idea.

[wayfarer]

First born girls get bossy. And bossy is what we now call leadership skills. Do not metaphorical beat that out of your daughter because your W has an attitude problem. All behavior isn’t modeling after their parents. If that were true not one well adjusted person would’ve come from a home of abusers or addicts and I know many. You and W need to get into a co parenting class like tomorrow. If you D and how you two behave comes up you’re going to be court ordered one. It’s not healthy for her to constantly undermine you. And it’s not healthy for you to be constantly assume every word, every action, every breath your W takes us some how effecting your children to the point where it will mold their behavior and world view permanently. You make huge assumptions and like you’re unrealistic expectations you have to stop. Everything doesn’t mean something deeper. Sometimes things are exactly as they appear to be.

As far as schooling please re-read what I wrote above. Your kids lives don’t stop because your future is open ended. How do you think homeschooling is going to go when you 2 can barely parent together? Your marriage is dangling by a thread so you think because there’s a possibility of D in the future you should definitely add the extra stressor of homeschooling a 4 yo with a 1 year old running around? Also eliminating the socialization she needs to develop good social and interpersonal skills. And giving her the opportunity to not be in the middle of the hot mess that is your household right now for a few hours 5 days a week. My daughter has gone to a private school her whole life. When I was with her dad. When I wasn’t. When we joined households with my H. And if he goes she will still be in her private high school. You make it work or you figure it out an alternative solution when it’s time. You are making decisions based on an outcome that hasn’t even happened. You cross bridges when you get to them not 5 miles down the road.

I’m sorry I’m being aggressive with you but you talk the way my thoughts are when I have zero control over my anxiety and it’s frustrating to me. I think you are still very much in crisis mode with your sitch. You gotta start dealing with your anxiety. You have to start detaching. And you have to slow down. Stop getting 5 miles ahead. If you have to hyper focus on something focus on you in the place you’re in right now. Not the infinite amount of possible future scenarios you could find yourself in.

[hoosjim]

The other thing about the kids, and it may be one of the reasons you are "here"in the first place: You don't always need to put the kids first. In fact, in most cases, at least when the MR is healthy, you are going to want to put the MR first. My pastor has put it best on more than one occasion: "When the plane is going down and the oxygen masks drop, they don't tell you to put the mask on your kids first... they tell you to put the mask on yourself, because you can't help anyone else if you're dead. It's similar with marriage... If you don't have a healthy marriage, your children are missing out on the most important model for behavior and relationships that they will have during their formative years... The best gift you can give your kids is a hot marriage."

Now, how does that translate when the MR is on the rocks? Obviously the calculus changes a bit... but not completely. Obviously, you need to do your best to maintain a sense of normalcy for the kids, and not "drag them into it".... but if your ultimate goal is reconciliation, if the MR is salvageable (and i think yours just may be... I see similarities to my own) in that case you need to give some priority to 1) yourself and 2) your MR. You can't sacrifice everything and drop everything and heroically give up everything "for the kids." That lie has taken hold in so so many households, that it is a major contributor to the death of marriages.Yes, they are your kids and yes you need to take care of them, but wayfarer is right: You are thinking five steps ahead about things that might not even happen... when you have immediate issues with you and with your MR that need to be addressed and which are much more fundamental. My W and I fell into the "rescue the children at all costs" trap, and it was a significant contributor to the downfall of our marriage and the loss of intimacy... we didn't take the time to nurture each other and the relationship, to make time for dates and fun even when the kids were on the needy side. It is an easy trap to fall into it, particularly when you have special needs children, as we did. But you have to find a way. In the long run, you will do your children more good by being a healthy, strong, complete parent, (and, if possible, have a healthy, strong, complete, marrriage) than you will by constantly giving up everything you have and that you are to meet every need real and imagined. What you need, is balance.

It sounds selfish but you need to take care of you and, if it is to continue, your MR

[ovrrnbw]

Ovr-how far in did you take the bed back and what was the reaction? If this was the first few months again, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

Month 3. Sleep in your bed. I got tired of the guest bedroom.

Have amy others asked for time after agreeing to recon?

If she knew, you'd know. Just do your thing.

Is telling W my boundaries a method to build respect or does that count as an R chat?

"Boundaries"...I'm starting to hate that word. I like to get out of my head and not talk like a counselor, so let me put it this way: if someone is mistreating you, you choose to engage or not engage. Don't engage. Walk away, however that looks.

a controlling b**th, crazy (my favorite of them all) if I assert myself too much or overtly command respect.

Hahaha so true...Men, we are so sensitive...

DB Basics:

Drop Expectations
No Mind Reading
GAL
180s
Don't believe anything you hear
Detach (zen master)

Read these every day.

The other thing about the kids, and it may be one of the reasons you are "here"in the first place: You don't always need to put the kids first. In fact, in most cases, at least when the MR is healthy, you are going to want to put the MR first.

Preach on.

[Core]

First born girls get bossy. And bossy is what we now call leadership skills. Do not metaphorical beat that out of your daughter because your W has an attitude problem. All behavior isn’t modeling after their parents. If that were true not one well adjusted person would’ve come from a home of abusers or addicts and I know many. You and W need to get into a co parenting class like tomorrow. If you D and how you two behave comes up you’re going to be court ordered one. It’s not healthy for her to constantly undermine you. And it’s not healthy for you to be constantly assume every word, every action, every breath your W takes us some how effecting your children to the point where it will mold their behavior and world view permanently. You make huge assumptions and like you’re unrealistic expectations you have to stop. Everything doesn’t mean something deeper. Sometimes things are exactly as they appear to be.

The bossiness isn't bothersome at all, she's great with her brother and other kids. What I'm getting at is that she talks to my W respectfully yet less so with me. As far as a class or counseling, I tried. Early on after BD, I asked her to go to counseling to work on the M or to guide us through the D and help us get the kids through it. I've read three parenting books myself. W said she never needed to read up or go to counseling as she knew more than the books from experience when she babysat kids occassionally.

Trust me, I dont think everything W does is going to shape the kids one way or another. The line crossing is how she treats me in front of them. I think she is an excellent mother and the kids are incredible largely due to efforts from us both. As far as things she says not meaning something deeper...they do unfortunately and thats had my head messed up. She has openly admitted to saying things with another meaning. I rarely know what she wants, even after probing. Then my probing inquiries are labeled as anxiety. Sometimes a week later or months later...or years later she'll say what she really meant. It's been confusing.

I'm sorry I’m being aggressive with you but you talk the way my thoughts are when I have zero control over my anxiety and it’s frustrating to me. I think you are still very much in crisis mode with your sitch. You gotta start dealing with your anxiety. You have to start detaching. And you have to slow down. Stop getting 5 miles ahead. If you have to hyper focus on something focus on you in the place you’re in right now. Not the infinite amount of possible future scenarios you could find yourself in.

Easier for us with anxiety to recognize it in each other. I usually post here during anxious episodes so it definitely comes out here. I'm just tired Wayfarer. Not crisis mode but tired of it. Even before BD, I was getting to my limit of Ws criticism, judgements, not just ignoring my love languages and telling me I'm wrong for having my styles, tired of her bossiness, lack of trying, etc. Its hard to fight for the M when Im already wounded.

The other thing about the kids, and it may be one of the reasons you are "here"in the first place: You don't always need to put the kids first.

100% this. W and I were both guilty of this. I've seen how we both tried to get time with each other but in the wrong ways. Typical, "I need physical intimacy to be emotional", "I need emotional to be physical". At the end of the day with both kids being poor sleepers, we broke and turned on each other. Took D4 2.5 years before sleeping through a nighr and shortly after, new baby sleep loss amplified. Not blaming them, W and I could've asked for help.

Now, how does that translate when the MR is on the rocks? Obviously the calculus changes a bit... but not completely. Obviously, you need to do your best to obttain a sense of normalcy for the kids, and not "drag them into it".... but if your ultimate goal is reconciliation, if the MR is salvageable (and i think yours just may be... I see similarities to my own) in that case you need to give some priority to 1) yourself and 2) your MR. You can't sacrifice everything and drop everything and heroically give up everything "for the kids." That lie has taken hold in so so many households, that it is a major contributor to the death of marriages.Yes, they are your kids and yes you need to take care of them, but wayfarer is right: You are thinking five steps ahead about things that might not even happen... when you have immediate issues with you and with your MR that need to be addressed and which are much more fundamental.

I like how you said this and I agree. Focus 1 is me, focus 2 would be the MR if W comes around and if I dont turn WAS.

My W and I fell into the "rescue the children at all costs" trap, and it was a significant contributor to the downfall of our marriage and the loss of intimacy... we didn't take the time to nurture each other and the relationship, to make time for dates and fun even when the kids were on the needy side. It is an easy trap to fall into it, particularly when you have special needs children, as we did. But you have to find a way. In the long run, you will do your children more good by being a healthy, strong, complete parent, (and, if possible, have a healthy, strong, complete, marrriage) than you will by constantly giving up everything you have and that you are to meet every need real and imagined. What you need, is balance.

It sounds selfish but you need to take care of you and, if it is to continue, your MR

Easy to get lost in the shuffle with kids, isnt it? You give me hope as you and W got through it. I told myself "this is all temporary. Once kids are a little older, we'll date, take a vacation. Bring back intimacy". We waited too long, forgot our ways. Most other sitches happen when kids are older, I never even fathomed a D with kids so young.

Ovr-how far in did you take the bed back and what was the reaction? If this was the first few months again, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

Month 3. Sleep in your bed. I got tired of the guest bedroom.

Have amy others asked for time after agreeing to recon?

If she knew, you'd know. Just do your thing.

"Boundaries"...I'm starting to hate that word. I like to get out of my head and not talk like a counselor, so let me put it this way: if someone is mistreating you, you choose to engage or not engage. Don't engage. Walk away, however that looks.

DB Basics:

Drop Expectations
No Mind Reading
GAL
180s
Don't believe anything you hear
Detach (zen master)

Read these every day.

Good feedback, as many things, it looks like I'm over thinking boundaries and also continue mind reading.

[Core]

So a couple nights ago I took mbr back. It pushed W to tears as it came off as me being dismissive of her feelings and more of the same from me, from her perspective. I knew this was a bad move for my sitch, I should've held off. I think mine is similar but was different than others here. I have a feeling this set back or reset any progress made. W feels horrible, and I feel horrible for making her feel that way.

In the middle of trying to save my M, I make W cry thinking I haven't changed, all over a bed. She feels like it was disrespectful which I did think would happen if I just took the bed. Wish I didnt make the move. W and I can't gain respect for each other if she feels disrespected. Now she'll likely be more disrespectful on top of hurting.

I see this sitch taking a long time if it ever comes around and now I dont know what to do with the bed situation. What matters is I already hurt her feelings so if we make new arrangements, the damage is done.

How is this a good thing? Did this happen to others? I feel really bad for W. All she wanted was a discussion over the sleeping arrangements, not a take over.