wayfarer, saw this quote recently. Think it might be appropriate here. Don't know who to attribute it to:
"The road to failure is paved with excuses."
That may be true. But one person's excuse is another's reason. I know I look like a doormat to some. And a failure to others. But I am not some 1950s house wife ignoring my H's affair so I can stay comfortable, and because that's how "men behave." I am angry. I am devastated. I hate everything he's done and is doing. And if tonight he cried and said it's all a mistake I wouldn't sob and welcome him back open arms. But I also can't live like every single thing he does is the end of the world and a slap in the face to me. He sure as hell isn't thinking about me when he's making those choices, I'm not entirely sure why I should think about him not thinking about me when he does them. I can't live in a place where his behavior controls me, my emotions and my actions. And I can't detach if I dwell on the details of all his misgivings. They are all one ugly mess that I have to choose to walk though or step over.
Also I'm not a quitter. And just because his vows didn't mean a damn thing doesn't mean mine didn't. This part. This is the worse part. There are no qualifiers on that. There is no "if you're the worse part of our marriage I get to give up no questions asked."Trust me, I will never look at him the same again. And our lives will never go back to the way it was but bad behavior or not, I made a commitment. He's still coming home. He's still calling it home. He's still has me as his wife on all his social media. He still has a wedding picture of us on his Instagram as his profile. He still worries if I've eaten. He worries if I've gotten to where I need to go when the snow is bad. Regardless of all the words coming out of his mouth and the ridiculous life he's trying to live right now, he still has 1 foot in this marriage. And while we're miles from any movement one way or the other, I'll wait here in limbo, and deal with my $hit, finding me, working on me, GALing, keeping our girls feeling secure as long as I'm able while he does what ever it is this week that he thinks he needs to do to live his life. No I can't stay here forever. And he doesn't get an endless hall pass. But this is our lives right now. And while some people aren't built for misery, I am. And because I've been there too many times before I know on the other side of this is a better stronger me, with or without him. I'm just still hoping that the other side of this is a better both of us, and a better marriage. And if that makes me a failure, so be it.
I am not telling you to give up. But I am telling you to COMMAND respect. Notice, that doesn't meant to demand respect. It means to act in ways that people will have to respect you. It like the LBH that gives up the MBR. COMMANDING respect is to take back the MBR.
In your sitch your COMMANDING respect might be to file for D, have him served, and then let him see what it is going to cost him, both in life and in dollars, to lose you.
I find most LBWs are terrified of D. I don't get that. You will never look better than when you are walking away from him.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Wayfarer, I don’t want to hijack your thread! But I find Steve’s advice interesting. In my case it won’t cost my H financially that much to D—he’ll be mostly fine, while I’ll be worrying about bills and rent. I do think it might be helpful for him to face the reality of what it would mean to live apart with me out of his life, to see that maybe D won’t automatically make him happier, isn’t the single answer to his problems. But I also don’t think it’s the answer for me, and I want him to own that decision if he makes it, I want him to do the work. I don’t want to hand it to him. I wonder how you’re thinking about this, wayfarer. I want to command respect, Steve. I hope I’m on the right path with my casual, detached attitude toward H, in not interacting unless he initiates conversation first, in the way I carry myself, do things for myself. But I do wonder if I could be doing more. I would take back the mbr, if that was an issue in my case!
Wayfarer, I don’t want to hijack your thread! But I find Steve’s advice interesting. In my case it won’t cost my H financially that much to D—he’ll be mostly fine, while I’ll be worrying about bills and rent. I do think it might be helpful for him to face the reality of what it would mean to live apart with me out of his life, to see that maybe D won’t automatically make him happier, isn’t the single answer to his problems. But I also don’t think it’s the answer for me, and I want him to own that decision if he makes it, I want him to do the work. I don’t want to hand it to him. I wonder how you’re thinking about this, wayfarer. I want to command respect, Steve. I hope I’m on the right path with my casual, detached attitude toward H, in not interacting unless he initiates conversation first, in the way I carry myself, do things for myself. But I do wonder if I could be doing more. I would take back the mbr, if that was an issue in my case!
I need make sure people understand that I am morally opposed to D. The only way I would suggest what I did to wayfarer was in the case where the WAS has cheated physically. If my W had physically cheated, I would have filed. Short of that my morals wouldn't let me.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I need make sure people understand that I am morally opposed to D. The only way I would suggest what I did to wayfarer was in the case where the WAS has cheated physically. If my W had physically cheated, I would have filed. Short of that my morals wouldn't let me.
The thing is I'm neither morally opposed to divorce or find a PA so morally repugnant that it's my line in the sand. If every single woman on here had that same standard of PA=D there would be almost no WH reconciliations on this site. I'm not hanging on because I have low self esteem or I'm so desperate that he can just walk all over me. In my mind, PA=D is in the same vein of a knee jerk reaction of begging or crying when WAS says they never loved you.
The question here for me is, ok let's say I play it your way. I make the power move. I file while he's still living in the house. Then what? Then we have to have a temp order put in place over the dwelling so that means a temp order hearing, which would likely be a contested hearing. So if I'm doing this pro se to save money, I'm losing PTO at work. If I hire a lawyer to fight this out for me I go thousands in debt to make sure he knows he should respect me? And if he gets booted out of the house then where will my step-daughter go if he doesn't secure a place? I'd gladly keep her with me, but he won't have that. So OW's house? Is that where they should go? If his daughter wasn't with us full time, this entire situation wouldn't be playing out the way it is. But as it stands right here in the moment I'm the only stable adult in her life. So where does that put me? I go your route and hope he all of a sudden gets smacked with reality and changes course? Or he kicks this moving out plan into high gear and leaves me high and dry scraping by before I'm financially ready and possibly paying legal fees at the same time. Or do I divulge what's going on to his family in detail so they can make sure his daughter has a bed to sleep in and adults with their head on straight to care for her?
Perhaps my blinders are on. Maybe you're right. Maybe the only way to command some respect is to make the first move here. But I genuinely don't see how that power move plays out in my favor in the long run with or without him.
I posted this on Pommy's thread and maybe it will help you too:
Have you read MWD's Healing From Infidelity? There is a chapter on when your spouse won't end the affair and I'm going to quote a little from it (hope that is OK):
"I know it is a lot to ask of you to avoid putting pressure on your spouse to end the affair if your spouse has chosen unfaithfulness. You may feel like you're a doormat or that your spouse is "having his cake and eating it too." After all, your spouse has all the comforts of home -- you, the kids, (if you have them), your home and a secure lifestyle-- and an affair. How unfair this feels, and is. I get it.
"But you are not a doormat. You are not a pushover. You are simply fighting for your marriage and you're trying to do it in the smartest way possible. You are giving your spouse the time and space they need to sort their emotions out and do the right thing. You are very courageous. You're a warrior. Don't let anyone tell you differently."
So. You are NOT a doormat. You are NOT a pushover. You are a warrior. In MWD's own words, no less!
I think you are amazing and strong. You need to match up what *you* want to do with *your* values and what *you* can and can't accept in your H, both now and in the future. What *you* are willing to do for your kids. That is different for all of us and I think all posters need to remember that we are different people, with different life histories, different value systems, and different breaking points. For Steve it is physical infidelity. It doesn't sound like it is for you, and you don't need to be ashamed of that or feel like you're a failure. It seems like you've been really thoughtful about all of this and clear on what is going on.
I do think it is important for us to challenge ourselves and each other- I get a lot of value from that and all the posters are helping me to better think of my situation from multiple perspectives, and I'm sure that is the same for you. Steve's been really helpful to me in thinking this through early on and I respect him a lot. And there are things I continue to noodle on and am thinking about a lot, especially about respect and what you're teaching your spouse is and isn't OK. I always thought through my entire sitch that physical infidelity would be a dealbreaker and I'd walk. When I actually got there, it wasn't so simple.
I'm just glad I'm still learning and growing, and I know my perspective may change as I move forward, make some choices one way or the other, learn new things, and continue to build my own life outside of H. I feel like it is the same for you.
Finally, from what I understand, this:
Originally Posted by wayfarer
But I also can't live like every single thing he does is the end of the world and a slap in the face to me. He sure as hell isn't thinking about me when he's making those choices, I'm not entirely sure why I should think about him not thinking about me when he does them. I can't live in a place where his behavior controls me, my emotions and my actions. And I can't detach if I dwell on the details of all his misgivings. They are all one ugly mess that I have to choose to walk though or step over...
And while we're miles from any movement one way or the other, I'll wait here in limbo, and deal with my $hit, finding me, working on me, GALing, keeping our girls feeling secure as long as I'm able while he does what ever it is this week that he thinks he needs to do to live his life. No I can't stay here forever. And he doesn't get an endless hall pass. But this is our lives right now. And while some people aren't built for misery, I am. And because I've been there too many times before I know on the other side of this is a better stronger me, with or without him. I'm just still hoping that the other side of this is a better both of us, and a better marriage.
This? Is DBing. Detaching. Focusing on you. Giving him the time and space he needs without pressure. I love what you said about not being sure why you need to think about him not thinking about you... his behaviors don't control you, your emotions, or your actions. You make your own decisions. And the decision to D is a big one that deserves time and good consideration before going down that path. You need to be ready and know it is the right thing in your heart. It isn't a feint to get him to miss you or your life together or whatever. It is a big deal and if you're not ready to do it with your full heart, you shouldn't.
Would this all be easier/faster/whatever if you kicked him to the curb? Maybe. From reading the other stories on this board? Probably, either to R or to faster healing for you, with or without him. But... if that isn't in line with your own values, then you shouldn't do it.
As you probably know I'm much in the same boat as you. The kids are paramount and if it weren't for them I'd be long gone. Where I am right now is that I don't want to be the one to take the step to end it (yet)-- I know that I will regret that down the line and it simply isn't who I want to be.
I'm here for you, wayfarer, if you need it.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Wayfarer, I don’t want to hijack your thread! But I find Steve’s advice interesting. In my case it won’t cost my H financially that much to D—he’ll be mostly fine, while I’ll be worrying about bills and rent. I do think it might be helpful for him to face the reality of what it would mean to live apart with me out of his life, to see that maybe D won’t automatically make him happier, isn’t the single answer to his problems. But I also don’t think it’s the answer for me, and I want him to own that decision if he makes it, I want him to do the work. I don’t want to hand it to him. I wonder how you’re thinking about this, wayfarer. I want to command respect, Steve. I hope I’m on the right path with my casual, detached attitude toward H, in not interacting unless he initiates conversation first, in the way I carry myself, do things for myself. But I do wonder if I could be doing more. I would take back the mbr, if that was an issue in my case!
That's the other part of this. He thinks all of his issues will be resolved by washing his hands of me and this marriage and I will not hand that to him. I just won't. I plan to file for legal separation as soon as he signs a lease so my step-daughter can stay on my insurance, but also then its in his hands if he wants a divorce. He has to wait 12 months from the finalization and then if he wants a divorce he can get it unilaterally but he has to do all the leg work.
Sorry, just read your last post... I also think there are more important things than whether your WS respects you or not-- like do you respect yourself, and are you doing the right thing by the kids.
You have his D's interests first and foremost. I think that can never be the wrong path.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I posted this on Pommy's thread and maybe it will help you too:
Have you read MWD's Healing From Infidelity? There is a chapter on when your spouse won't end the affair and I'm going to quote a little from it (hope that is OK):
"I know it is a lot to ask of you to avoid putting pressure on your spouse to end the affair if your spouse has chosen unfaithfulness. You may feel like you're a doormat or that your spouse is "having his cake and eating it too." After all, your spouse has all the comforts of home -- you, the kids, (if you have them), your home and a secure lifestyle-- and an affair. How unfair this feels, and is. I get it.
"But you are not a doormat. You are not a pushover. You are simply fighting for your marriage and you're trying to do it in the smartest way possible. You are giving your spouse the time and space they need to sort their emotions out and do the right thing. You are very courageous. You're a warrior. Don't let anyone tell you differently."
So. You are NOT a doormat. You are NOT a pushover. You are a warrior. In MWD's own words, no less!
