Leave it. Just leave it alone. They look at it as an invasion of privacy. Ridiculous I know but that’s the view in their eyes. You’ll get “I can have eyes can’t I?” “Can’t I have friends?” He’ll point out guys in your social media that you went to grade school with and don’t actually even interact with.
EXACTLY. It's classic "gaslighting". Now I am not saying to ignore what he does, I am just saying don't confront him about it. It's all information that you should take seriously, it's an indication of who he is right now and how you should deal with him. So while you don't confront him, you log it all mentally and remind yourself that your old H is gone and this lying, cheating interloper has taken his place for now. Your old H may come back, that's what you should hope for. But you've got to deal with the interloper for now, and how you deal with that should be radically different than how you would deal with your old H.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
Deactivating my FB has been the best thing for my mental health recently. I know it’s happening. I know where he’s going and what he’s doing. But I’m not watching him put the needle in his arm so to speak. I won’t do it any more because while it kills me, it killing me means jack to him right now.
Amen! You have to protect yourself from the alien. If and when your old spouse returns then you can decide what to do at that time. But that is probably way down the road.
Originally Posted by HesAble
Yes, anger is an emotiom that keeps creeping up for me. I also want to remind H that not only is he being a terrible H, but he is being a neglectful father and terrible role model for our children. They are probably so confused. He needs to figure out how to explain his behavior because I am not covering for him.
Of course you are angry, you have every right to be! You're experiencing a rainbow of emotions, that's part of this. Don't fight your feelings, let them happen. If you like to read then I would suggest The Happiness Trap, it really helped me early on in my sitch in learning how to deal with my wild emotional swings. You should definitely not cover for him, but try not to throw him under the bus either. Whenever it came up in convos with my kids, I always told them the same things- it's not about them, their mom and I both love them very much and no matter what happened to our M we would both always be there to support them. Kids don't usually understand what's going on and tend to blame themselves. They are afraid of being abandoned more than anything. So they need constant reassurances.
Originally Posted by HesAble
I also want to remind H that not only is he Also has anyone suggested IC to their wayward spouse? I want to bring it up am but am sure it will backfire. I suggested MC which of course he refused because he wants a D.
No, don't do it. Right now he thinks everything is your fault and that you are the one that needs counseling. If you tell him to get into counseling he'll see it as you blaming him for everything, and needless to say that won't go over well. Plus most IC's just listen and validate, so they will just tell him what he wants to hear and probably push him to file for D sooner rather than later.
Wayfarer: Not sure I am ready to deactivate FB but I am definitely trying to limit my social media usage to a minimum. That is probably just a good thing in general. And I am going to try to stop checking his page and the sleazy woman's page.
AnotherStander: thanks for the advice on how to explain to the kids that mom and dad will be here for them. Although H is around less and less, I do not think he will abandon the kids.
Also thanks for the warning about mentioning an IC. I won't do it. It could backfire not only because it would likely anger H but the IC could push H to file (I had not thought of that possibility).
H and Me - Both 45; S13 and D9 BD - 11/2019 Married 14 years; Together 20 years
Need more advice: a very close friend suggested that I mention briefly to H that the children are very aware that he is not coming home many nights. My inclination is no, I should not mention this because last time I mentioned the kids, H claimed I was trying to manipulate him by mentioning how D would affect our kids. Surely these wayward spouses realize that their bad behavior impacts their kids. I assume H just does not care - the same as he does not care about my feelings.
Last edited by HesAble; 01/22/2001:03 AM.
H and Me - Both 45; S13 and D9 BD - 11/2019 Married 14 years; Together 20 years
The checking up thing social media or otherwise like everything else in this process you’ll know when to let go and let god. I’m not particularly religious but that’s been my mantra lately.
The spending nights elsewhere without warning is becoming more frequent. Out of the past 5 nights H has spent the night here only once. He stops by only to shower and change generally when I am at work; I only see evidence that he has been here. It seems that, instead of getting better, he keeps getting worse. It seems hopeless. I pray I am wrong and that he eventually snaps out of his alien state.
H and Me - Both 45; S13 and D9 BD - 11/2019 Married 14 years; Together 20 years
As far as I know they are like addicts. They gotta hit bottom before they can start to climb up. So I’m sorry but it’s likely going to get worse before it gets better. I strangely just posted about my H disappearing. He won’t go days. And he still calls here home even though he’s on a date night with OW right now. Just Incase you’re wondering he’s coming home tonight. Yeah that’s my life, loll. 2 months ago when I brought up how what he’s doing is going to devastate our kids he basically told me to F off and that was manipulative, blah, blah, blah. 5 weeks ago I tried to set some boundaries. Only a few rules. She isn’t allowed around either kid his or mine as long as he’s under this roof, she’s never allowed in my home and if I find out she’s ever here I’ll gladly go to jail over that, she isn’t part of family time, you commit to family time she gets muted for those few hours, don’t embarrass me or the kids in public, and please tell me where you’re disappearing to even if it’s with her because I can’t keep telling a 15 and 17 yo that I don’t know where you are. He won’t dare bring her here. He knows well enough to not bring her around the kids. He’s actually been good with muting her during family time for the most part. The last two however. Not so much. Until 4 days ago. Saturday he inexplicably started telling me where he’s going, with who and if he’d planned on coming home. Every day since then he has. I don’t say this to brag. I say this I say emotionally prep for a fight but don’t go in like a heavyweight. Stay calm and neutral. Lay out simply what you need to keep that house running with some semblance of sanity and order. He will either do it or he won’t. But it’s out there. I’m learning the WS is a lot like a teenager. They hear what you’re saying but they won’t listen until they are ready to. Honestly leave him a note if you must or shoot a text laying it out. Maybe something about committing to time with the littles certain days and hours. And giving you a heads up if he IS coming since the norm is now to just not be there. And what ever else you need for sanity and order. No guilt tripping. No whining or nagging. Just this is what I need. You may need to review the boundary post and turn the list into if you don’t I will things. You seem to be hitting a wall here and maybe a baby line in the sand vs. immediately going to to hell with it let’s go straight to D is what you need to feel like you have a tiny bit of control here.
Need more advice: a very close friend suggested that I mention briefly to H that the children are very aware that he is not coming home many nights. My inclination is no, I should not mention this because last time I mentioned the kids, H claimed I was trying to manipulate him by mentioning how D would affect our kids. Surely these wayward spouses realize that their bad behavior impacts their kids. I assume H just does not care - the same as he does not care about my feelings.
Don't mention it. It's not your job to make him a better parent or husband or person. There was a movie that I can't remember the name of where the group of people was being terrorized by a killer. He walked up to one of them and was yelling and screaming, and the person did nothing. Absolutely nothing. No reaction at all. The killer looked confused, and finally walked off. One of the other victims asked what happened, and he said "I made myself invisible". THIS is what EVERY LBS should strive for. Make yourself invisible to your spouse. They want a target for all their hatred and anger and frustration and the LBS is the perfect target. You've got to remove yourself from the equation. Leave him alone, work on yourself, focus solely on you and the kids. Don't talk to him or interact with him except as required to coordinate the kids' needs. If he can't use you as a scapegoat, he'll eventually have no choice but to face his own internal demons that are REALLY causing this.
By the way, you and every other LBS here saying your WAS "does not care" are DEAD WRONG. He cares a lot. He's going through tremendous emotional turmoil right now. There's a battle going on inside him between the old him- faithful husband and father, and this weird alien version of him that is trying to take over. He hates himself, he is racked with guilt, he second-guesses what he is doing constantly. But WAS's are masters of hiding all that and "acting as if" this is what they want. The worst thing you can do is assume he doesn't care because then you have zero empathy for what he is going through.
Need more advice: a very close friend suggested that I mention briefly to H that the children are very aware that he is not coming home many nights. My inclination is no, I should not mention this because last time I mentioned the kids, H claimed I was trying to manipulate him by mentioning how D would affect our kids. Surely these wayward spouses realize that their bad behavior impacts their kids. I assume H just does not care - the same as he does not care about my feelings.
I was in the same boat as you. We told the kids H was busy at work....going out at night was for work..etc. and I got really anxious about them finding out that H is not sleeping at home. I told H that we should tell the kids and H refused. I accidentally slipped and said something to the kids afterwards and H flipped and said I was trying to ambush him. Anyway, it went on for awhile- and I stopped lying for him. When the kids asked I’d just say I don’t know where daddy is.
Ultimately H was the one that dropped the bomb in front of the kids. And I was the still the one that pushed for the talk with the children afterwards, because H thought there was no need still!!! The talk happened, but I could tell H was so overridden with guilt that he could not handle it. I actually saw him smirk a little when I was talking to S10 about the possibility of divorce!! Before DB I would’ve blown up seeing that smirk, but I didn’t. At that moment I knew that he was not right. I know he loves the kids and would do anything for them, so his attitude told me that he was totally not himself.
I think if my H didn’t drop the bomb in front of the kids, I would’ve decided to tell the kids soon anyway whether he liked it or not - I was planning to say something to H such as: “I know the kids have questions and I don’t want to lie to them. Let me know if you want to be part of the conversation. I’ve decided that I will talk to them at X time, and I plan on telling them X. “
Some vets recommend not saying anything until any decision is made because kids need certainty. But for my own sitch I felt my oldest was already uncertain about what’s happening and it would not be right to keep pretending everything is ok when clearly he knows it’s not. I can see my S10 is going through some huge emotions lately now that he knows, but he wouldn’t talk to me about what’s on his mind. My other two are younger so they seem ok so far.
I'm a little behind, so what I say may have already been suggested. If you don't want to be gone all weekend GAL, you don't have to, okay? You can bring friends to your place and have a ball. Just don't use that to make your H feel that he must be there, also. Whenever you plan to have friends over........do it with zero expectations in him, b/c this GAL activity is not about him. You can engage in whatever you enjoy. Plan something with the kids, but do it without him, b/c he will see it as pressure.
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Need more advice: a very close friend suggested that I mention briefly to H that the children are very aware that he is not coming home many nights. My inclination is no, I should not mention this because last time I mentioned the kids, H claimed I was trying to manipulate him by mentioning how D would affect our kids. Surely these wayward spouses realize that their bad behavior impacts their kids. I assume H just does not care - the same as he does not care about my feelings.
I agree with your inclination. He will see this as you using "guilt" to keep him home. It doesn't work.
Do wayward spouses realize their bad behavior impacts their kids? On some level, I think they do........however, it depends on a few things, IMHO.
First of all, I think it depends on his status in this rebellious journey. In other words, during the initial part, and especially, during the height of his rebellion, it is not likely he will respond in a way that shows he is really concerned how his behavior is affecting his children. Partly b/c he sees the kids being tied/connected to that life he wants to escape. He still loves his kids, but currently, he's too self-absorbed, spoiled, and too addicted to the emotional drug he gets from his wayward activities (other women, one night stands, an affair, or whatever inappropriate behavior he chooses). He doesn't want to play the daddy role when it is inconvenient for him (which is most of the time while he is wayward) when he's got all this other going for him. It is amazing just how out of touch the wayward becomes with his fatherly responsibilities when he is emotionally submerged in these wayward activities. He may help provide food & shelter, but he has you there to take good care of his children's emotional needs while he chooses not to show up. The more his guilt button is pressed, the more resentful and rebellious he becomes. Something else may turn him around to see what he is doing to his kids, but it will come through some source other than his W pointing it out to him. And let's be clear......repentance and reformation may follow guilty feelings........but not always. Do you really want a spouse to stay with you just out of guilty feelings?
Second, IMHO, is the individual's depth of moral/spiritual character. Although he may currently be off in the twilight zone and showing anything other than moral character........did he have it instilled as a young person? Was there a pattern or guide set for him, so to speak. I'm not an authority on the subject, by any stretch of the imagination, but we tend to believe people develop their moral character as they grow from child into adulthood. Personally, (and this may be b/c of my spiritual beliefs), I think people can change for the better if they are taught & motivated. They can develop a higher moral standard for themselves, and I wonder if you set the bar a little higher than he was use to reaching......and maybe he was motivated to change b/c he wanted to M you. I don't how deep or shallow the man's morals run. All we can see in him is his bad behavior, and it appears he has lost his moral compass.
As long as he is getting some type of emotional return from his wayward activity, it will be very difficult for him to sukk it up and turn back---if he doesn't have the moral/spiritual structure that beckons him to do the right thing by his wife & kids. Therefore, the people who try to make him feel guilty about his behavior, will be avoided the most by him....especially his W.
Thirdly, and this is very closely related to the second point, is determined, IMHO, by what he experienced growing up.......especially, those in roles of authority in his daily environment, and what was expected/required from him. While growing up at home, if he was not held accountable whenever he chose to ignore anything he didn't want to do.......he is more "at risk". In other words, if he was not taught to respect boundaries or suffer consequences......then why wouldn't he be lazy, spoiled, disrespectful, unreliable, untrustworthy, inconsiderate .........and a host of other undesirable traits? These could be overcome, if he wanted to improve himself.....but I think a person has got to have a lot of self discipline.....or religion. The sad thing is the lack of self discipline is usually high on their list of undesired traits, when it was not required in their youth. This is why many couples have trouble after a few years of M, b/c one of them were spoiled rotten during their youth, and was never made to do anything they didn't want to do.
I think one of your problems in cooping, is due to you comparing him to your own moral character.......or to the character you mistakenly took him to have. I think a lot of M couples do it, and it's gut wrenching for them to see this wayward spouse who has chunked everything that should be the most important. Even wayward spouses who had excellent moral teachers while developing into adults, can reach an emotional crisis point at some time in their lives, and just mess up their lives and the lives of their family........all in the name of finding "happiness" for themselves.
Well, I'll stop here with my thoughts. Continue to be true to yourself and don't settle for less. ((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
