Are you talk and touch charges from Mort Fortel? I've listened to his stuff, and he has some good ideas to offer that I feel complement DB. Not everything, of course..
Yes, though we aren't supposed to discuss other experts here.
Still, many of his methods are the same as MWD's. Back off. Give time and space. Etc.
I think talk charges, touch charges and date night are more for marriages that are in trouble but pre-BD. Though if you start getting to a place where you might reconcile, subtle touch and talk charges can work. But they are pressure and pursuit and should not be used until reconciling becomes a possibility.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I think this needs to be updated Joe2017 & Jim1234 didn’t reconcile
That's correct, but I did note that next to their names on the list (Jim1234 "wife wants to recon" and Joe2017 "not yet success but shows how a WAS can turn around") I only included their sitches because they were such great examples of the change-of-heart a WAS can eventually have, helped in large part by good DB'ing practices by both of them.
Yes, though we aren't supposed to discuss other experts here.
Oh shoot, I missed that in the rules section. Noted.
Originally Posted by Steve85
Still, many of his methods are the same as MWD's. Back off. Give time and space. Etc.
I think talk charges, touch charges and date night are more for marriages that are in trouble but pre-BD. Though if you start getting to a place where you might reconcile, subtle touch and talk charges can work. But they are pressure and pursuit and should not be used until reconciling becomes a possibility.
Makes total sense. It is funny how I have to literally rewire my brain to do things differently. I can feel that it's a 180 in me. My initial reaction is not quite the pressure and pursuit as before, but it's still not second nature yet, so I have to think it through. I think of it as learning to write with my left hand after writing with my right all my life. I have to really make that effort and practice.
I also have to do self-forgiveness, as it is more clear to me ways that I nagged or tried to please in my past in order to get reassurances, etc. Ugh. Not easy to remember. But I guess noticing is the first step.
And not that he was prince charming or anything, but just trying to focus on me and own my own life.
the best apology is changed behavior. *************** me: 45 h: 48 m: 23 T: 26 DD1:19 DD2:16 DS:11 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
Too bad you and I can't talk. We have a lot of the same issues, mine didn't havethe OW. I appreciate your input into mine by the way. Mine wasn't the prize hog at the fair either, not by a long shot. But seen through the lens of the sudden and ultimate loss, amazing how we reframe them. Just like they rewrite history when they decide to leave.
Too bad you and I can't talk. We have a lot of the same issues, mine didn't havethe OW. I appreciate your input into mine by the way. Mine wasn't the prize hog at the fair either, not by a long shot. But seen through the lens of the sudden and ultimate loss, amazing how we reframe them. Just like they rewrite history when they decide to leave.
Agreed. Yes, the rewriting history was a shock to me. I felt like we had lived two different versions; and in his version I was the villain.
the best apology is changed behavior. *************** me: 45 h: 48 m: 23 T: 26 DD1:19 DD2:16 DS:11 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
My husband still works with the OW, but we have an agreement where outside of two main board meetings, they aren't in the office at the same time and he works remotely. If we need an exception, he checks with me and we are supposed to brainstorm a solution.
Two weeks in a row, and this is sliding. He tells me they don't have meetings together and she works on the other side of the office. I think this is most likely true. I believe he doesn't have feelings for her, and I believe it slips his mind like he says.
BUT. We had an agreement. And she doesn't bother me. Him having integrity with this agreement bothers me. He is a workaholic, work is his safe place. But I don't believe it should come before my comfort in this area. Whether he has feelings for her or not, whether it was three years ago or not, this is the agreement we made so I would feel comfortable for them to continue working in the same company.
I am not sure how to approach this or handle it. How does this situation fit in with the DB/DR philosophy, detachment, etc. I feel unsure what to do when it comes up.
the best apology is changed behavior. *************** me: 45 h: 48 m: 23 T: 26 DD1:19 DD2:16 DS:11 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
Oceangirl: Ditto. It was all my fault too and for awhile, I accepted that story. No more. Mine has a high paying job that I got him. He wants to leave it and go be a trading nomad with international travel included in these plans apparently. I facilitated and funded that even after he left me. He actually has filed as you know and can end this marriage any time he wants. I at least didn't beg, plead etc. I told him if that's what he wanted, I wouldn't stop him and I haven't tried. I did try to reason a little (stupid). A couple of weeks ago, he told me he hasn't changed his mind but insinuated that it was still possible that he could ("trust" being the issue - obviously sees that I have changed). He has also done things that kind of signal to me that he's not completely gone yet. I do feel that it is going to be difficult to near impossible for him to dismiss this case and come back because it represents "going back into the cage" for him. He may have to go through with it and live his fantasy life before realizing it was nuts. I also read the Dobson book and that is the most useful thing I have seen. It's fear of the future that keeps me in this game although I have taken a lot of steps to deal with that. It's mostly irrational. I can make money and have all my life but I'm 62 and worried about health ever becoming an issue with no support. I also still love the idiot but that can and is changing. I give you the biggest virtual hug I can. This blows, there is no question about it.
Oceangirl: Ditto. It was all my fault too and for awhile, I accepted that story. No more. Mine has a high paying job that I got him. He wants to leave it and go be a trading nomad with international travel included in these plans apparently. I facilitated and funded that even after he left me. He actually has filed as you know and can end this marriage any time he wants. I at least didn't beg, plead etc. I told him if that's what he wanted, I wouldn't stop him and I haven't tried. I did try to reason a little (stupid). A couple of weeks ago, he told me he hasn't changed his mind but insinuated that it was still possible that he could ("trust" being the issue - obviously sees that I have changed). He has also done things that kind of signal to me that he's not completely gone yet. I do feel that it is going to be difficult to near impossible for him to dismiss this case and come back because it represents "going back into the cage" for him. He may have to go through with it and live his fantasy life before realizing it was nuts. I also read the Dobson book and that is the most useful thing I have seen. It's fear of the future that keeps me in this game although I have taken a lot of steps to deal with that. It's mostly irrational. I can make money and have all my life but I'm 62 and worried about health ever becoming an issue with no support. I also still love the idiot but that can and is changing. I give you the biggest virtual hug I can. This blows, there is no question about it.
Oh Newbie, it's so hard, isn't it!!!!!
I am 45. The good news is, there so much life still for you and me, and I am trying so hard to have my mantra be "I will be okay no matter what." I totally understand that worry of health issues and being alone. I try to remind myself I have dear friends who love me and will be by my side.
I've been on this roller coaster with him for three years now, so the love part is fading for me as I have continued to lose respect for him in buckets. I have bent over backward to work with him and make this as positive and easy as possible and he has not done the same. While I want my marriage to work out, its hard to romanticize someone youre having difficulty respecting.
I am reminding myself my happiness can't be dependent on how he feels about me. I am going to be miserable in limbo land if that is the case. I keep telling myself I am a catch lol, otherwise I can get discouraged about being alone.
I am glad we all have each other here. It makes it so much easier.
the best apology is changed behavior. *************** me: 45 h: 48 m: 23 T: 26 DD1:19 DD2:16 DS:11 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
Oct 14-28, 2014 | W cheating and near-separation in 2009, search for explanations for BD 2014 Oct 28-Nov 4 | OM confirmed through kids on Halloween, refocus on me rather than blaming W Nov 4-10 | OM confirmed by W in email, strollergate, W has problems at work, unexpected blind date Nov 10-18 | Lunch with W went well, reflections on being dumped, kids and OM Nov 18-Dec 8 | W warms up but OM set to move in in January, W's birthday email Dec 8-Jan 2, 2015 | To be nice or not to be, two trips make me feel better, office party video Jan 2-16 | Turning down lunch invite, telling W I need to move on, W emails about D Jan 16-31 | WAW wants to change job, move to her country, I agree to meet Feb 2-25 | Plans for moving abroad are nixed, D papers are delayed at my request, flirting experiments begin Feb 27-Mar 24 | D7 birthday plans, PMA crash, serial cheating, dating debate, detachment at last? Mar 24-Apr 29 | Great dating debate, the expensive watch, GALing better, my tone on these forums May 5-Jun 17 | Online dating, crying at the school play, genetics of cheating, mediation begins
My story After 9.5 years together and two kids, my W announced in early September 2014 that she wanted a separation. A week of pleading and begging didn't change a thing. She said she wanted to be free, alone, find her true self, that I was criticizing her too much, that we're incompatible, that she was unhappy and no longer in love with me and she didn't want to live with half-emotions. She had told me before of some of those complaints and that she was miserable. We had not yet addressed everything, we would fight more than average, and I wasn't changing fast enough, so she was growing hopeless that things would improve.
A week after BD, she moved out. A month and a half later, she confirmed my suspicions that she was with a coworker, met at the new job she started a month before BD. He moved in with her in January. Our two daughters know and like him enough and generally take the S in strides.
DBing I accept responsibility for what I did in the M, by being too critical and dismissive of my W's feelings. I understand that my W was looking for something she wasn't finding in the M. I sometimes understand why she left, since she was miserable, and sometimes think leaving was too strong a reaction for the situation. I tend to blame her flight reflex and unrealistic expectations for love and family life. My heart wants to R, but my head tells me that it's a pattern with her and that I better not expose myself to it again.
My stance at the moment is to let her live her life while I reflect and try to focus on me. In January, I told her I didn't want to interact beyond the practicalities of the kids because I need to move on. I'm good at being silent and distant so the "no pursuing" rule is easy to apply for me. After nine months and little contact, I can say that detachment is taking hold. I see a therapist since BD and I've also started dating in May (8 months after BD). _________________________________________________
SUCCESS STORIES I update this list every time I start a new thread. Please make suggestions, especially with links to threads. I wish we had room in our profile to tell our story so that the vets and other successes could give us a quick summary.
Piecing as of 2014-2015 (newly added)Kramer (M) (newly added)edz (M) Jefe (M) T0324 (W) H leaves in Febr 2014, filed for D, had OW, piecing fails in Aug 2014, piecing again in Mar 2015 Crimson (M) Heart14 (W) Signs 2014-02, DB 2014-07, Piecing since 2014-07 Nitty - BD in December 2013, piecing as of September 2014
the best apology is changed behavior. *************** me: 45 h: 48 m: 23 T: 26 DD1:19 DD2:16 DS:11 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
