what DB approaches are right for me?

[oceangrl]

R2C , what is the fine art of seduction ? Where can I learn about this? Thanks

I am wondering the same thing!!!

[job]

Until R2C comes around and responds, try doing a google search on it.

[SteveLW]

First, a little exercise. You mention he has "lots of great qualities"......awesome. Can you list those out for us? Just do a brain dump of all of these awesome qualities he supposedly has.

I think it is important you post a list of all his great qualities. It will help us know what we are dealing with.

Can you do that?

[Ready2Change]

R2C , what is "the art of seduction" ? Where can I learn about this? Thanks

I am wondering the same thing!!!

There is a good book(~500pages) that talks about Rakes, Dandies, Ideal Lovers, Sirens, Naturals, Coquettes, Charmers, etc.

[oceangrl]

First, a little exercise. You mention he has "lots of great qualities"......awesome. Can you list those out for us? Just do a brain dump of all of these awesome qualities he supposedly has.

I think it is important you post a list of all his great qualities. It will help us know what we are dealing with.

Can you do that?

Here is what I have put together so far (I *think* these are qualities):

Very hard worker (although this can veer into workaholic behavior)
Not afraid to take a risk and start a new business or hobby
Tries hard to be a good provider
Tries to eat healthy and take care of his body; exercises
Spends time on his interests (cycling, snowboarding)
Has worked to become a good father (I used to be basically a single parent; see workaholic above)
Will support me in my endeavors and desires
Has worked to be more spiritual and have a better relationship with Higher Power

[SteveLW]

First, a little exercise. You mention he has "lots of great qualities"......awesome. Can you list those out for us? Just do a brain dump of all of these awesome qualities he supposedly has.

I think it is important you post a list of all his great qualities. It will help us know what we are dealing with.

Can you do that?

Here is what I have put together so far (I *think* these are qualities):

Very hard worker (although this can veer into workaholic behavior)
Not afraid to take a risk and start a new business or hobby
Tries hard to be a good provider
Tries to eat healthy and take care of his body; exercises
Spends time on his interests (cycling, snowboarding)
Has worked to become a good father (I used to be basically a single parent; see workaholic above)
Will support me in my endeavors and desires
Has worked to be more spiritual and have a better relationship with Higher Power

Ok. This is your list so I won't say these aren't "great" qualities, because to you they may be. That's great.

Objectively though, the first one is both a great and bad one (due the workaholic aspect). I see a couple of "tries". So is he a good provider and is he healthy as you say, or is it just a try? #5, is the appropriate amount of time? Or is that, coupled with working so much, mean that he is gone too much? Then the last one......I am having trouble reconciling that with his behavior towards his wife and his vows.

The reason this is an important exercise, oceangrl, is that when we get BD'd we tend to suddenly think that our S was the most incredible person on the planet and that we could never ever live without them. I was the same way. After my BD suddenly I thought my W was the greatest woman ever. I would extol her virtues to anyone that would listen. The truth was that leading up to BD I was as unhappy, if not more so, than she was. When we get hit with the potential end of our MR, and all that entails (separation from their family, having to coparent, attending activities in our kids lives in the future with them there (and a potential OP), etc) then we start romanticizing how great our S and our MR was. Sometimes doing an exercise like this shows us that maybe they aren't as great as we've trumped them up to be in our imagination.

Keep posting ocean! We are here to help you and support you!

[oceangrl]

First, a little exercise. You mention he has "lots of great qualities"......awesome. Can you list those out for us? Just do a brain dump of all of these awesome qualities he supposedly has.

I think it is important you post a list of all his great qualities. It will help us know what we are dealing with.

Can you do that?

Here is what I have put together so far (I *think* these are qualities):

Very hard worker (although this can veer into workaholic behavior)
Not afraid to take a risk and start a new business or hobby
Tries hard to be a good provider
Tries to eat healthy and take care of his body; exercises
Spends time on his interests (cycling, snowboarding)
Has worked to become a good father (I used to be basically a single parent; see workaholic above)
Will support me in my endeavors and desires
Has worked to be more spiritual and have a better relationship with Higher Power

Ok. This is your list so I won't say these aren't "great" qualities, because to you they may be. That's great.

Objectively though, the first one is both a great and bad one (due the workaholic aspect). I see a couple of "tries". So is he a good provider and is he healthy as you say, or is it just a try? #5, is the appropriate amount of time? Or is that, coupled with working so much, mean that he is gone too much? Then the last one......I am having trouble reconciling that with his behavior towards his wife and his vows.

The reason this is an important exercise, oceangrl, is that when we get BD'd we tend to suddenly think that our S was the most incredible person on the planet and that we could never ever live without them. I was the same way. After my BD suddenly I thought my W was the greatest woman ever. I would extol her virtues to anyone that would listen. The truth was that leading up to BD I was as unhappy, if not more so, than she was. When we get hit with the potential end of our MR, and all that entails (separation from their family, having to coparent, attending activities in our kids lives in the future with them there (and a potential OP), etc) then we start romanticizing how great our S and our MR was. Sometimes doing an exercise like this shows us that maybe they aren't as great as we've trumped them up to be in our imagination.

Keep posting ocean! We are here to help you and support you!

Totally see your point. I listed "tries" because it is finally a priority for him. Although with the last one, I fully agree that it's hard to reconcile being right with God when not being right with your marriage and family as a priority. I listed it as a priority because he is in the process of getting his values back on track. However that lining up with the way he is treating me is a glaring point.

His habit of needing me to be the one with the most problems and the most to change probably keeps him from doing work on himself. He is also a compartmentalizer, so he can keep it all seperate.

I ABSOLUTELY know that I had rose colored glasses on at the beginning of this. He was the perfect guy (gag) and I made excuse after excuse for his behavior. I chased and pursued, begged and pleaded, tried to convince, basically everything you are not supposed to do. The lenses on those glasses have definitely finally cracked with the realities I am seeing. The selfishness, the prioities, etc. I am last on the list. He complains he does not feel connected to me and doesn't feel passionate feelings for me. Well A., I am not an affair and cannot compare with that. B. he is getting out what he has put into this.

At times I feel angry and done with his selfish behavior and think, "fine, go on and get out of here if you are so sure you can do better than me." Then at other times I think 20+ years and three kids, and I believe we could create something joyful.

[oceangrl]

Here's something else I'm struggling with....He gets his affection from his kids. So when he comes home or walks in the door, he says hi to me, but has a big hug and "Hi Honey!" or "I've missed you so much!" or "you look amazing!" etc etc. Basically, the greeting and acknowledgment yearn to have. I feel invisible. We went to a town square to look at Christmas lights a few weeks ago, and it was the perfect example of what happens so often: he held both our kids hands with each one of his as we walked on the sidewalk, which meant that I was forced to walk behind them alone. I would never do that to someone; I think it's so selfish and rude. Those are the times when I get so angry because I'm tired of feeling rejection and invisibility. How do you handle this?

Is detachment truly a wise strategy? It seems so opposite of what you are taught to do: lean toward them, don't withdraw, love them, reach for them.

I am so afraid of making more mistakes.

[SteveLW]

1st, you have to drop all expectations. He had fired you as his wife, start behaving that way. If your job fired you would you keep doing it? Of course not. As LBSs we all at first, after getting BD, and told they want space, start smothering our WAS. He's said he wants less of you, and now you're trying give him more of you? Had anyone ever asked you if you wanted something to eat? Like a piece of cake. You say no but they insist on giving you one? Annoying, huh?

We all struggle thinking detachment can't work. Read the distance-pursuit thread, it makes a ton of sense. And you'll see the wisdom in detaching and being less interactive with him. Plus, if this does proceed to divorce you'll already be healthily detached and in a much better place for taking care of the things you'll need to take care of, with a good sense of equality and fairness.

Plus the opposite of detachment is pressure and pursuit. Detachment in no way guarantees you'll save your marriage, but pressure and pursuit almost always guarantees that you'll push your WAS into following through with leaving and D. It just smothers then and pushes them away.

[oceangrl]

I hear what you're saying. It makes sense. He definitely fired me as the wife during the long term E and PA. But, if his big complaint it not feeling emotional connection, will detachment work toward that? That's the one place I have trouble with clarity.

I see where it is a huge help with building my own self-esteem and worth, I need to GAL for sure. I just got back from running this morning, so that was one of the things on my list. I see where it promotes toward possible divorce. And I definitely am not interested in pressure and pursuit. But is it avoiding speaking with him or interacting at all when we are in the same house? I am heading to that thread now.