WAW - is it too late?

[sandi2]

I see you have not posted since my post yesterday, so I'll continue.

Originally Posted by LH19
RVM

I’m really sorry you are here my friend.

Is a PA a dealbreaker for you?

Is the suspected OM married?

Have you spoken to a lawyer?

What are the sleeping arrangements?

1) Undecided right now. I'm trying to slow things down. I do still love her.

1. While going through this crisis period, don't get confused about the real issues that are at play here. In other words, some newbie H's think this is the time he should prove to his W how much he loves her. I'm here to tell you that would be a mistake, b/c of her wayward mindset. Her mind/heart is not interested in how much you love her. Frankly, she doesn't care, b/c her affair is her interest these days. She takes your love for granted.

So, what are the real issues that are currently at play? Betrayal, untrustworthy, manipulation, gaslighting, lies, unfaithfulness (at some level, you can count on it), deceit, lack of respect, resentment, rebellion (at some level), etc. I think you get the picture, and you know these issues have come from your W. Don't start second guessing yourself and think you are to blame for these behaviors from your W. Waywardness is a free will choice, and she can stop it whenever she decides to do the right thing. It may help if you understand how waywardness begins. It starts with her resentment toward you, and she holds on to that resentment. Long-term resentment breeds disrespect. A man wants to be respected. That's at the top of the list for him as a man. Now, the funny thing about the husband-wife relationship is that the wife's loving feelings and desire for her him, is determined by the level of respect she has in him as a man, and as a husband. If she harbors resentment and disrespect, her mental attitude become negative about her MR and she'll begin to show signs of rebellion. Usually she starts with small things, like subtle put-downs, rejecting him sexually, having a stinking attitude, etc. It gets a little worse over a course of time, and the man with NGS will make excuses for why she does this, but he doesn't put his foot down and stop it. Remember this, if you don't remember anything else: The wayward wife respects nothing......except strength. That's the starting line for your work. Am I making sense? She won't like it, but she'll have to respect it. As a man with NGS, that's an important fact you must get your head around. You won't save your M by trying to appease your WW. A WW is not going to like her nice-guy H who is trying to score brownie points. So, work on your self esteem. Realize your self worth. There are a several great men on the board who can talk-guy. You know what that is, right? It's when another guy tells you everything I've tried to say, only they can do it in one sentence.

2) Yes. But, I still don't have the conclusive proof it is him.

2. If you need proof for your own sanity, then get it. Don't get proof with the notions you will wave it in her face, prompting her into admitting the truth. It's true there are some WW's who might admit it, but usually they will lie and deny, even with proof staring them in the face. It is the craziness of the WW. Also, if you intend to confront her about an affair, you must have a plan that carries you past the point of confrontation. IMHO, the confrontation does nothing more than let her know you aware of something is going on. She'll ask questions to see just how much details you know, but don't ever reveal how much you know. Many H's seem to think the WW will feel regret, apologize, and want to work on the marriage. I've seen, maybe, a handful who are good enough actresses that they pull off this initial performance.......although they have no intentions of ending contact with the affair partner. It's nothing more than a stall, designed to fool the H and take the affair deeper underground. Sometimes, upon confrontation, the WW will tell her H that she doesn't know what she wants. This leaves him hanging, while she stays home and receives benefits of being his legal W........and she continues to get her thrills from the OM. The majority of cases I've seen on the board, is where the WW twists things around to blame her H for everything, and the confrontation leads to her "excuse" that the MR could never work, and she begins the next level, which is to separate. The popular way WW's do things these days, is to say they can't afford two physical homes, so they will have to live in a in-house separation, and they try to get the H to leave the MBR. She gets the family activities, but when it comes to her life outside the family.......it's strictly off limits to her H to even ask personal questions. She pretty much calls the shots.

3) Yes. I live in a no fault state.

3. Okay, have you checked to see about your rights to have the kids 50%, and who would pay child support? It never hurts to know where you stand legally.

4) Both currently sleeping in MBR. There is no physical contact. There were a few nights where I was so pissed off and anxious that I slept in another room.

It's a tough place to be, however, I hope if anyone moves out of the MBR, it will be her. As the man, the leader, and the faithful spouse, you need to stay in the marital bedroom, and the marital home, b/c of the representation. Just remember, until you get your own respect, she won't respect you. Until you get her respect, you won't have her love/desire. That's the way she is wired. Therefore, everything you do from this point forward, must be with the intent of gaining self respect, and her respect. Once she respects you as a man........her love will follow. Okay?

In our earlier talks, I told her that I would not accept infidelity and lying. I also told her I am not interested in just being married for the kids. But, I had nothing to back it up or made any real boundaries. I know I am being treated like a doormat right now. I have made a ton of NGS mistakes.

I assume you are familiar with book about NGS. It will probably be something you will always have to check yourself, but you can learn how to stop being a doormat, and other unattractive attributes that repel your W. Be sure to study about relationship boundaries, and personal boundaries. You need to understand how it works before you say something that backs you into a corner. I think the quote above was fine, and I really liked what you said about not staying married for the sake of the kids.

One more thing I want to caution you about is taking things you read from the board and passing on to your WW. It makes me cringe when I see a H crowing to his WW the message that was intended for his personal growth. It immediately clues her to know you are getting that snappy statement (or whatever) from some other place. Don't let her discover your sources of DB information, or see you watching videos, etc. These tools are for YOU, not her. The persona you need to have is a man of strength & honor, who will not put up with deceit, disrespect, betrayal, manipulation, etc. As a WW, that is what she needs to see in her H, in order to change her current opinion.

One of the most common things I've seen in H's, is their need to talk their WW back into the M. No, you can't talk her back through relationship discussions. You can't nice her back, either. Words really don't impress her, but actions do. We will talk more about that later.

This forum has helped so much explain what is going on in my W's head.

Glad to hear it. I have written several threads with that in mind, if you care to read them.

[RVM]

Thanks again Sandi. Yes, I did reply to your post from yesterday. And, yes, I recently just finished the No More Mr. Nice Guy Book. I definitely fit that characterization in many areas - especially in the passive-aggressiveness I've displayed over the years.

The one NGS thing I've never done in our marriage really is trying to earn brownie points. The begging/pleading only started when I realized we were in crisis mode and I was almost positive she was cheating. We've had a somewhat detached marriage for many years. I think her resentment towards me just built up for the lack of respect she may have for me with our differing career successes. Plus, I have had a history of just not being a very good listener. It has been really eye-opening to see where I made some really bad mistakes over the years. Validation would have been a really important tool from the start.

Scroll back a page and you'll see my replies. Also, I've read many of your posts on this board. MANY. I've gone through the LBS threads a couple times already. And, read your rules several times. I think I need to start each day reading that one. Incredibly helpful insight you provide here.

[RVM]

So, it's V-day today, which will be awkward this evening.

Bought my daughters cards that W and I will sign. And, a card for my W from my 2 Ds. And, instead of getting my W, any card or anything from me, I got one card with some scratch off tix for the whole family addressed from a friend's cat that spends a lot of time in our yard (running joke with our family).

This morning, just a quick "bye" from W as she left (presumably to the gym as she does every morning).

I had my daughters sign my W's card before they left for school. My oldest asked me what I got my W. And, I kind of brushed it off, with a diffusing "it's a surprise" type of comment. She then said, "I know what she got you." I don't plan on buying anything for her regardless of what my D just told me. So, we'll see how this goes over tonight.

She then followed up with a "you and mommy argue a lot." (We really haven't recently at all actually). I tried validating with, "I'm sorry you feel that way. We just have grown-up decisions to make sometimes and don't always agree." She didn't say anything and moved on to another topic. So, that was tough for me to hear and try to talk through.

I later texted my W about signing the Ds cards. She replied, "ok, and we are leaving for our trip early tomorrow." (the trip that I am not going on). I replied, "should be fun, the girls can't wait to go." Didn't get a reply back from her.

And, later sent W a separate email about a minor school issue with my youngest D. No reply to that one.

Neither of us have acknowledged the day with each other, so far. I don't plan to until the family is all together and we exchange cards. I'm sure she found a way to celebrate with her AP.

My W bought them each several gifts which I thought was a excessive for this day. (Last week, I mistakenly asked her why she bought so many gifts in a surprising tone. And, she said quite angrily, "we've always bought them gifts for V-Day." I knew as soon as it came out of my mouth that I should not have said anything at all. Still trying to break this bad habit.)

I've been implementing a very minimalist conversation strategy with my W this week - with mostly one word replies. She really hasn't been prying or asking many questions and just seems to be matching my distance. I'm wondering how this approach works for me as this was one of the problems we had for the past few years. We have both matched each other's physical and vocal distances. So, this isn't a 180 for me and still feels like it's giving her exactly what she wants. But, given that she has essentially fired me as her H and likely in an A, is this still the correct approach? It does seem cold and distant.

I'm planning on going out solo after the girls go to bed. Probably just going to the movies. I will clean up a bit, and simply say, "I'm going out for the evening."

[sandi2]

It seems detaching is the most difficult for newcomers to grasp.....much less actually doing it. I have a favorite copy of a much shorter definition/example of detaching. I'm going to paste it below.

****************************************************************************************************

Definition of Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love (known as to lovingly detach*), we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flip-side, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my duty/job to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanding or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and not bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow S to be who he/she really is rather than who I want him/her to be.

IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -

We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures.

[sandi2]

The one NGS thing I've never done in our marriage really is trying to earn brownie points.

Sometimes the lines get blurry when a man ask himself if he is doing Acts of Service, or being a pushover. He doesn't want to be a jerk, yet he doesn't like her cake eating. When a man has been a nice-guy all his life, I think he struggles with these smaller issues b/c any action (or lack thereof) may be contrary to his usual nice-guy behavior. He has trouble seeing the picture of how a man should conduct himself without resembling the backside of a horse. It is difficult for him to understand DB detaching. Some men don't understand how to detach without acting mad/cold. IMHO, I think some nice-guys have trouble knowing how to balance it. They go from one end of the spectrum to the polar opposite, b/c they don't have a natural feel for some of the techniques recommended. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think some have difficulty visualizing how he is suppose to interact with his WW, and how to lovingly detach, while at the same time enforcing boundaries, etc.

We've had a somewhat detached marriage for many years. I think her resentment towards me just built up for the lack of respect she may have for me with our differing career successes. Plus, I have had a history of just not being a very good listener. It has been really eye-opening to see where I made some really bad mistakes over the years. Validation would have been a really important tool from the start.

When a woman marries, I think she has a need to feel intimately connected with their H. You might think of it as emotional intimacy. It's as if your soul and her soul lovingly come together. It's a way of making love, without physically having sex. However, if her need to feel intimately connected with her H is satisfied, I think it will definitely lead to her desire for physical intimacy.

Women wants to be heard by the man she loves. If she feels her H is not hearing her, by either dismissing what she says or turns a deaf ear when she's trying to talk to him.........it causes hurt, frustration, resentment, coldness, etc. Long-term, I think, it causes emotional damage between the spouses. I'm not saying the differing career successes did not play a part.......but I think the seeds of resentment were already there, which made way for a lack of respect. I'm speaking from the viewpoint of a woman, and her emotional needs within her marriage relationship. Without a strong intimate connection, everything becomes like stacking monster trucks on a weak bridge.

What can you do about emotionally connecting with her now? When a WW is in the act of rebellion against her marriage & husband, and has brought a third party into the M.........I suggest that there are two ways. You'll have to stay focused and find balance, or you'll go to one end of the spectrum or the other. First, let's talk about listening. Considering her bad behavior (manipulation, deceit, gaslighting, etc.) you don't want to appear as if you are not keenly aware of her little bag tricks. Remember, your biggest job right now is to be a tower of strength and dignity. So, if she is verbally vomiting on you, screaming, cursing, etc...........I don't think you should sit there and listen to her speak disrespectfully to you. However, if she is not lying, speaking vulgarly, gaslighting, etc........then you can look at her as she talks. If you can validate her feelings, that's fine. I may stand alone on this, but I think newbie LBH's need to be careful when they are eager to apply validation. They seldom report what they actually said, just that they "validated". So, remember, first of all, she is wayward (whether she's having an affair, or not), she has a wayward mindset and is in rebellion. I've seen newbie H's completely over-kill in their attempts to validate. I encourage you to study Wonka's thread on validation. Also, Another Stander is incredibly talented when it comes to validating statements. Validation does not mean you agree with her. IMHO, I think when dealing with a WW, the H has to be careful that he doesn't sound as if he is justifying her decisions or actions. Make sense? I think the safest way, for anyone who doesn't know how to validate, is to just look at her when she's talking, and nod their head that they are hearing her. BTW, you can practice validating others, too, like you did with your little girl.

Valentines day, and other holidays, can cause the H to feel as if he is in no-man's land without a guide. It's tough when you have a couple of little girls observing. (Are they twins? How old?) I think you handled it well. Valentines and wedding anniversaries are the two most romantic themed holidays, so you've got one down. What's the next thing coming up?

You may feel you are walking a tightrope for a long time, but we will do our best to help you. I encourage you to evaluate yourself and decide where you need improvement as a man. That's first. Make a plan or set specific goals on how you can make positive changes on yourself (appearance, personality, attitude, confidence, social skills, intellect......whatever). How can you work on your NGS? You may be frustrated and want to focus on the MR, but if you work on the man, first, you'll find you have the confidence to handle the challenges in the MR. Some of the things will naturally overlap from man to husband.

While you are planning how to improve the man, I suggest you put a lot of thought into your personal boundaries. The purpose of boundaries are for protection. They are based on your values, integrity, honor, religious/moral belief system. Don't start walking around the house proclaiming your list of boundaries, thinking your W will get her act together. Every WW is going to test your personal boundaries, and relationship boundaries. The wedding vows should have been pretty clear about fidelity, but WW's are not honorable and they justify their actions/feelings. You've told her you would not tolerate infidelity (however you worded it), so that is a boundary. Okay, so whenever your boundary is dishonored, there needs to be some type of action from you......and I don't mean having a talk. She is free to make the decision to honor or ignore your boundary. If she doesn't honor your boundary, then you do whatever action will protect you. You may tell her to find somewhere else to stay. You may decide to legally S or D, if she won't end her affair and do the necessary work on the MR. I'm not telling you what to do. Just throwing out some examples.

You might consider trying something on a smaller scale. For instance, I like to use phone calls as an example. If she calls you and is speaking inappropriately, you tell her you will hang up if she doesn't lower her voice, stop cursing, etc. If she chooses not to talk respectfully, you just hang up the phone. She will be furious, but so what? She can get glad in the same rags she got mad. It's up to her, but you draw the line at anyone talking inappropriately over the phone to you. You stay in charge of protecting your feelings. You don't scream threats at her. Make sense?

Another thing, and maybe I've already said this previously. You don't sit down and have a discussion with your WW about the boundaries you have set. If you feel it necessary to state a boundary, then do it, but you don't discuss it. If you state a boundary, be prepared to enforce it. How do you enforce it? You back it up with an action that is as powerful as the disrespect taken against you. In other words, a boundary without consequences.... is completely ineffective.

[RVM]

Thanks for your lengthy reply Sandi. It's really appreciated! I'll go through it and reply to it.

So, V-Day didn't turn out to be as awkward as I expected. Exchanged cards and gifts with the girls. They had a great time with this.

W got me a box of chocolates, but no card. I never bought her a card. Did not look at her to see if she was visibly upset about this. We never said "happy v-day" to each other the entire day. First time ever.

Afterwards, they did some last minute packing for their wknd trip the following morning. And, the girls then went to bed. I started cleaning up to go out. And, as I'm putting my shoes on to leave, W walks by and I casually tell her I'm headed out for the evening.

She made an angry sigh and walked away saying, "so, are you going to go out every night now?"

I asked in a very casual tone, "sorry, what do you mean by that?"

W: "you have been going out every night this week."
Me: "yes, that's true. I have been going to the gym after the girls go to bed."
W: "well, you're clearly not going to the gym tonight."
Me: "that's correct. I'm not."
I was tempted to ask her, "why, did you want to do something together?" Glad I didn't.

W: "well, I'm setting the alarm for 5 am tomorrow. We are leaving early."
Me: "okay."

She didn't ask what I was doing nor did I offer up any further information. But, she was visibly upset and stormed off to another part of the room.

Me: "okay, well, I'm headed out now so I'll see you later." W made a barely audible reply, and I left.

I ended up grabbing a coffee and then went to see a 10:30 pm showing of 1917. It was very odd to be doing this on V-Day. Especially seeing other couples out. And, I was dressed up pretty nice for the movies. I didn't feel lonely or anything. But, it was still odd to be out alone on V-Day when I'm married. Oh well, I grabbed a bucket of popcorn and a soda and enjoyed the movie.

Got home after 1 am. Climbed into bed and W didn't make a peep.

The next morning the W and Ds were up at 5:30 am to leave. I got up to say goodbye to them. I'm sure my W was surprised to see me so alert. Prob thought I was out at a bar and must be hungover. Said a nice goodbye to the girls and W. She barely made any eye contact with me.

Since they've been gone, I've been GALing like crazy. Going to the gym every night; signed up for some guitar lessons; did quite a bit of work on the next phase of a small carpentry project I'm doing for the girls; did a little shopping; went to the library and read some more of the 5 Love Languages book; ate out at a great sushi bar (solo) last night; made an omelette for breakfast; and grabbed some pho for lunch today from a Vietnamese restaurant I've been meaning to try.

I've also been being more attentive to the people I've communicated with out in public. Just having nice random conversations with other shoppers and cashiers. Keeping everything very light and comical. It feels good to just have these small connections with strangers.

This morning I spent a couple hours on my computer researching and signing up for several meetup.com groups in the local area. I'm excited to join some of these things. Just reading about them made me realize I put a lot of my personal interests on hold trying to be Joe Family Man all the time and following my Ws leads and her ideas for our weekend plans.

My Ds called me a couple of times while they've been away which was great. Even though I've been so busy this wknd, it was really sweet to talk to them and find out how their trip has been going. They are having a great time.

I did not talk to my W or inquire about her. Just told my Ds each time to say hi to everyone else. We exchanged a few basic logistical type of texts, but that's it for our communication.

It's been a good few days.

[sandi2]

How about an update?

[RVM]

To update my sit on the few weeks since V-Day weekend.

They came back home from the long wknd on a day I was working. I also had my first guitar lesson that night, so I went straight from work to it. Got home after 8 pm, and was warmly greeted by my kids, all expressing how much they missed me.

W just gave me a casual, “Hi.” Never asked me how my wknd was, or even shared any pics from their wknd together. I didn’t ask either. The kids told me all about the wknd, they had a great time and I was very enthusiastically happy for them.

A few recent events:

My W had a biz trip last week, for a few days. She mentioned she’d be doing this over a month ago, but never gave me the dates or any details back then. So, she drops this news on me, a week before. It was really upsetting, and I did let her know it.

It was completely out of character for her to do this (based on pre-WWS character). And, it did seem really shady that she hadn’t shared any details. She said “oh, I thought I gave you all of this information.” It put me in an awkward position b/c I had to then plan to work from home b/c my office is too far away from my kids’ schools. She never apologized for it.

So, she goes on this trip, and does text a bit with me while she’s away for logistical updates on our kids – D7 had just come down with a bad cold, and missed a day of school The other D10 also caught the sickness later that week, and missed school as well. Never asked how I was doing with it all, etc.

W gets back from trip, again, we just casually say hello, no other real details shared.

The next night we were invited to a neighbor’s house for potluck dinner with a few other families. I reached out to a neighbor friend an hour beforehand and we decided to have a beer at his house beforehand. W was working on some dish in the kitchen, and I just told her I’m headed over to my friend’s house for a beer. Her reaction was one of a bit of shock, as it was clear that she expected we would be going over to the neighbor’s house together or something. Needless to say, we’d barely uttered a word to each other all day.

I just said, “okay, I’m headed over to his house now.” And, I left.

Hung out at friend’s house for a while, then went over to our friends’ place for dinner. She was sitting with others at a table, and I just walked in and socialized with some of the guys in the kitchen. We never really spoke. I also helped the guys with some last minute food prep.

When it was time to eat, people grabbed plates of food and found spots to sit. W was sitting again, with other friends at a table. I was one of the last to serve myself and as I was walking to sit down in another room with a friend, I heard her comment, “there’s a chair here next to me.” I didn’t acknowledge the comment as I was already around the corner, in another room, halfway sitting down already.

On the surface, it may have looked like I intentionally ignored her, but since I never really looked at her as I was walking by, I had no idea she had an open chair next to her. I had no intention of sitting next to her, but I would have just nicely said to her, “I’m gonna go sit out here with ___.” There was no followup discussion about that possibly perceived slighting.

So, we’re having fun separately at the party, we didn’t speak at all to each other, but it also wasn’t awkward for me. I don’t know about her opinion of that. She seems very self-conscious about how we present our public R to others. Yet, behind closed doors, we could not be more far apart these days.

I ended up staying late to hang out with my friends (which I had let her know I would be doing earlier that day.) My kids were a bit upset that I wasn’t going home with them. But, we had nice good night hugs. W never said goodbye when they left.

Since then, it’s been more of the same routine. Kids go to school, W and I go to work, and are mostly on a very basic “hi-bye” type of oral communication level, with random logistical types of text exchanges about the kids or things relevant to the house.

W sways from being smiley and nice to me, to making passive-aggressive comments/judgments, or acting really smug and dismissive – almost as if she’s flaunting her A with OM. I’ve mostly done a good job at not reacting to these tests. It’s tough, as that’s one of things I failed miserably at in the past.

I try not to get bogged down into wondering what’s she’s thinking/planning, etc. And, when I do start going down that path, I try to find some other activity to occupy myself. I’ll also just leave the room and go into the bathroom or something.

My GAL’ing has mostly been:
• lots of activities with my kids
• going to the gym after the kids go to bed
• guitar lessons once a week; otherwise, I’m practicing at home (I love it so far.)
• random home improvement types of projects
• meeting up with friends
• reading; going to the library
• window shopping, just to get the eff out of the house sometimes

I also had my first IC session yesterday. I basically just rehashed all of the events of the past year. It went well. I was completely comfortable talking and will be going for another visit next week. This forum has been a tremendous help in processing everything I’ve experienced.

One of the big questions the counselor asked me was, “what is my goal for our R and the counseling?”

I more or less replied, “well, despite how awful this past year has been, I still want to save my M. I don’t know if I can or even want to at this point. But, I will likely set a deadline for how long I can manage this, as it feels really unhealthy. More importantly, I’m here to work on myself – dealing with adversity and working on being the best person I can be – for me and my kids.”

Besides everything else, one thing I'm really struggling with on a daily basis is how my sex life has been completely shut down for months now. I don't know how long-time DB'ers manage this.

[RVM]

Journaling…
--------------

Some friends sent out a group text, W and I were both in it, inviting us out to a group couples dinner. I hadn’t responded. But, W replied back saying “We don’t have a babysitter for our kids that night. But, H can go and I will watch the kids.”
We never even discussed this as an option. Nor did we even have any conversation at all about going out.

I was a bit offended that she spoke for both of us, and put me in mildly awkward position. I didn’t say anything to her, nor did I reply to the text. (this group of friends does know we are not in a good place right now) I wasn’t really excited about going to this anyway. It just seems really fake. We’d probably individually enjoy ourselves with our friends, but it is awkward being out together in a situation like this.

Later, I was out at the gym, and she sent me a message that she reached out to our friends we carpool with and told her that we’d bring her D to swim practice. Both of our families’ Ds do this together and we alternate transport to practice every week. I was actually hoping to take them this time. But, I didn’t get the chance to put that offer up. I replied back to my W, “I was going to offer this week. But, that’s fine, you can take them.” W did not reply.

Today, my youngest D7 had a small play at school. I wfh and W went into office. We never discussed how we’d go to the school – either separately or together. I was planning to walk there – it’s really close to home. W texted me right as I was walking out the door, and said she was planning to go to school directly from work, unless I wanted to be picked up. I just replied, “no, I’m good, going to walk there.” No reply from W.

Met her at the play and we were pleasant together. I chose a spot for us to sit, and as she usually does, second guessed my seating choice (in a pleasant way), but didn’t make an issue out of it, and we sat down. Great show, D7 was super happy. After, we met up in D’s classroom and was allowed to bring her home.

I asked D if she wanted to walk back, and she did. W drove back home. As we were walking out, I asked my D if she wanted me to grill her something for lunch. She laughed and said “I already ate lunch.” And, my W, laughed and commented in a smuggish manner, “it’s 2 pm, she ate hours ago. It’s too late for lunch.” I made a joke about my habit of eating late lunches, and just said, “well, I can also grill you something anyway, it’s really nice out today.” I’ve just gotten better at stifling my negative reactions to my wife's endless snipes.

Another similar example was the night before, I opened up the dishwasher to unload it as I ran it that morning. W saw me and said, “I’m running it again tonight, I was surprised you ran it when it wasn’t even full yet.” (Meanwhile, she’s done this many times over the years.) I made no comment back and just moved on.

I could probably write a small book on how many different ways my W has disapproved of me using the dishwasher – loading, unloading, running, etc. In the past, I used to react immediately to her passive-aggressive comments on it or watching her actually reload dishes "the right way" immediately after I load them, but I’ve been much more self-aware recently and tend to just nod or say okay, and move on. But, the constant petty judgments still gets under my skin.

[SteveLW]

"Some friends sent out a group text, W and I were both in it, inviting us out to a group couples dinner. I hadn’t responded. But, W replied back saying “We don’t have a babysitter for our kids that night. But, H can go and I will watch the kids.”
We never even discussed this as an option. Nor did we even have any conversation at all about going out.

I was a bit offended that she spoke for both of us, and put me in mildly awkward position. I didn’t say anything to her, nor did I reply to the text. (this group of friends does know we are not in a good place right now) I wasn’t really excited about going to this anyway. It just seems really fake. We’d probably individually enjoy ourselves with our friends, but it is awkward being out together in a situation like this."

Text back to the group: "While I appreciate the invite, I already have plans that night."

That will drive her nuts! And she has already offered to watch the kids. So find something else to do that night and go do it. AND HAVE FUN!