I am new here, but grateful for a place to go. I've been married to my H for 24 years in May. We have three children together. We make a good family. But our marriage....I don't know what to do anymore. My H had an EA and PA with a good friend of mine and his co-worker for two years. I had that BD three years ago. It destroyed me and she and I were close and our families did things together. I felt so dumb not to have seen what was in front of my face. But I trusted them both. He blamed it on me and felt like if I were the wife I should have been he wouldn't have done that. He told me she was his best friend and so much more. She is married and has said she and her H healed their M. I did not discover a program like DB until at least a year out. We have tried, but it has been mostly me. He tried IC and MC for a short period of time and will not go back. I did IC for a long time which helped me tremendously.
He works every other week out of state in the office, and the other week remotely with us. He and the OW still work together in the same company, but not together anymore. We have agreements and boundaries, but he doesn't like to talk about it. If he could forget it all and heal me with a magic wand and it is never brought up again, that would be his ideal. I have come a long, long way. I am really proud of my progress. But I am not where I want to be yet. I have basically done it on my own. My H has many good qualities, but empathy and compassion are not two of them.
I am at the place where I do not know what type of DBing I should do. I am at a loss. He told me the week of Thanksgiving he felt we should get a D. He said that he doesn't feel connected to me, that he is not happy and he feels I am not happy. He feels he made the effort and there is no point. I am so sad. I told him he would have to do the D, I would not fight him but it's against my value system to contribute. I am heartbroken. I am just in shock that this is where my life is.
We have not brought it up since then, and we do the family thing, and we will go to the movies together and we sleep in the same bed together. But he avoids any sort of date where we could talk. He has erected an emotional wall and will not let me anywhere near it. He will not touch me either, although he will let me rub his back. As many of you can relate, I am so lonely and starving for any kind of affection and touch.
His friends tell him he is an idiot that the grass is not greener out there. But I think he would rather be alone than with me. They tell him I am great, which makes him angry. It is so odd because I am younger than the OW, and by his own words far more attractive and have a better body. But it doesn't seem to matter.
Our cheeseless tunnel would be talking. He does not want to talk about anything related to marriage or anything that results in "bad feelings." What do you think would be the best DB approach? I feel so confused I don't know which way is up or down, and I am afraid to make a mistake. I had a therapist that encouraged me to be vulnerable. I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I texted him that I missed him and wished he were here. He did not text back or address it. My hurt wants to say something to him about how that feels, but I'm pretty sure that would be fruitless.
I know he is mad because he had meetings in the office with the OW, and he did not let me know ahead of time which is part of the agreement we made. I don't bring her up and I don't bring the subject up, but I do feel it's important for me to advocate for myself in this area.
Okay...sorry for the verbal vomit. I will appreciate any advice you might have. I am in need of hope.
the best apology is changed behavior. *************** me: 45 h: 48 m: 23 T: 26 DD1:19 DD2:16 DS:11 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
First, where is ANY DBing activity in what you just wrote? I see none.
I see pressure and pursuit. I see neediness. I see R talks. I see the desire to talk about your feelings. ALL of that are cheeseless tunnels.
First, a little exercise. You mention he has "lots of great qualities"......awesome. Can you list those out for us? Just do a brain dump of all of these awesome qualities he supposedly has.
As far as DB activities that are right for you? ALL OF THEM.
First, I see nothing in your OP about GAL. I would love to hear about what things you are doing that doesn't include him. Girls night out. Taking the kids to a movie. Etc. You absolutely need to recapture the things that were in your life that made you you when you met him. We often times give up all of our individual activities when we get married and settle in, and then we are no longer the same person. You need recapture that magic that was oceangrl with one HUGE caveat: you do that for yourself, not for him!! (This will be a theme.)
Next, you are in IC! Great. Continue to self-improve, 180 on any bad behaviors (obsessing over OW to start), and become the best oceangrl that you can be! Again, this is FOR YOU, not for him. Become the awesome person that you know you can be. Self-improvement activities are great because they make you feel better about yourself. Self-esteem will go a long way towards making you awesome. And it will make you realize that he doesn't really deserve you and that HE has work to do to GET you back!
Finally, detach. This is a process. This is something that you have to continually work on. Detachment is one of the most misunderstood parts of DBing. It is not being rude, passive-aggressive, or ignoring. It is being emotional even. Not reacting to his craziness. Not melting down the next time he brings up D. You handled it pretty well before, and I agree with your stance on it. But this:
"He does not want to talk about anything related to marriage or anything that results in "bad feelings.""
Honor that! IN fact, the #1 rule of DBing is NO R TALKS. Never initiate a R talk. If he does...listen and validate. Study the validation thread here. Make sure you know how to use validating statements. Do not get into a back-and-forth. Do not disagree with him. Validation is neither agreeing or disagreeing with what he says, it is understanding what he is saying and the feelings he is expressing.
Oceangrl, you have a main goal: you need to remove all pressure and pursuit. Stop the back rubs. Back off and let him come to you! WASs are like cats. If you move towards them they will run. But if you back off, give them space, they will eventually come around out of curiosity. STudy the pursuit-distance dynamic. Then back off and give him the time and space he has requested.
As far as what he said at Thanksgiving about D. Remember, words are words. Actions are actions. This is important for your DBing efforts (do it don't say it!) and it applies to the WAS too. They will say a lot of things. We have a rule around here: "Believe nothing they say, and only half of what they do!"
As far as the future, you said you are confused. We have another saying around here: "When they want to come back you will know. We they don't, you will be confused."
So GAL. 180. Detach. Give him time and space by removing all pressure and pursuit. Focus on you and your kids. Leave him alone to figure out his own stuff.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
My H had an EA and PA with a good friend of mine and his co-worker for two years. I had that BD three years ago. It destroyed me and she and I were close and our families did things together. I felt so dumb not to have seen what was in front of my face. But I trusted them both. He blamed it on me and felt like if I were the wife I should have been he wouldn't have done that.
It amazes me how many stories we see like this where a WAS has gone out and had an affair and then blames the LBS for it. Like it was completely beyond their control. First of all I hope you really see this for what it is. Your H is a selfish, lying cheater who refuses to take responsibility for his actions. Does that sound harsh? Well it should, because regardless of who you thought you were married to before you are now married to a lying cheater who you cannot trust. And your actions need to reflect that.
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We have tried, but it has been mostly me. He tried IC and MC for a short period of time and will not go back. I did IC for a long time which helped me tremendously.
You should discontinue the MC until he shows real interest in it, which is probably way down the road.
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My H has many good qualities, but empathy and compassion are not two of them.
Interesting you mention that in particular. Do you think he's a narcissist?
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I am at the place where I do not know what type of DBing I should do.
Like Steve said, it doesn't sound like you've been doing any DB'ing so far. All the pursuit and such needs to stop. You need to give him time and space and focus on you and the kids.
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We have not brought it up since then, and we do the family thing, and we will go to the movies together and we sleep in the same bed together. But he avoids any sort of date where we could talk. He has erected an emotional wall and will not let me anywhere near it. He will not touch me either, although he will let me rub his back. As many of you can relate, I am so lonely and starving for any kind of affection and touch.
I would suggest trying to build some space between the two of you. Suggest to him that he should sleep elsewhere because you don't feel comfortable around him anymore (but you should stay in the MBR, he should be the one to leave). No more back rubs or any other affection/ attention. That's just cake-eating on his part, and you don't want to encourage that.
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His friends tell him he is an idiot that the grass is not greener out there. But I think he would rather be alone than with me.
You are correct. So give him what he wants. If you can create some space then he may eventually start missing you and realize what he may be losing. But for now he doesn't want you.
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It is so odd because I am younger than the OW, and by his own words far more attractive and have a better body. But it doesn't seem to matter.
It's very common for cheaters to "affair down". It's more about feeling an emotional connection than it is about how pretty they are or how nice their body is.
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Our cheeseless tunnel would be talking. He does not want to talk about anything related to marriage or anything that results in "bad feelings." What do you think would be the best DB approach?
To not bring it up, ever. And if he brings it up then you do two things and two things only- listen and validate.
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I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I texted him that I missed him and wished he were here. He did not text back or address it. My hurt wants to say something to him about how that feels, but I'm pretty sure that would be fruitless.
Yes, completely fruitless. Right now he doesn't care about you, or how you feel. Feelings may eventually return but it'll take a long time.
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I know he is mad because he had meetings in the office with the OW, and he did not let me know ahead of time which is part of the agreement we made. I don't bring her up and I don't bring the subject up, but I do feel it's important for me to advocate for myself in this area.
Boundaries are worthless without enforcement. So you made a boundary with him that he can't see OW without letting you know, and he did anyway. So now what? Now he thinks your boundaries are a joke, and that he can trample on them whenever he wants. Don't set boundaries unless you are prepared to enforce them.
Thank you for your kind butt-kicking....I needed it!!!
The very sad thing is, I used to be so pathetically co-dependent and needy that I am far and away better than I was. At some point in being a wife and mother I lost who I was. I lost connection with myself. I used to be a really interesting person. And you really hit it on the head....I need to GAL.
My goals are to travel to Europe, to continue to exercise and work on getting my body in great shape (I am thin but weak), continue to learn French. I also want to join some groups here in LA. We are not from here and recently moved here because my 11 year old is an actor. So I have time to sit on set and learn and study. And I need to make friends. It is lonely being in a new place.
One of my top priorities is figuring out a way to make money. Like I mentioned before, I sit on a set for about 9 hours a day. So I have to find a job I can do remotely and on my computer. I have been taking bookkeeping classes. I also write. I have got to become financially independent of him somehow. But it is scary for me, I am a former teacher but I've been a stay at home mom supporting his entrepreneurial dreams for years. Right now his business is struggling and we are financially struggling. You would think he would recognize that I support him through the ups and downs, but nope.
Detaching is my number one biggest challenge. I think I am on a roll with it, and then something like the other day happens, where he holds my kids hands with each of his hands on the sidewalk so I end up walking behind them. I think that's so rude, and I get so hurt and angry....and that makes it so much harder. Those feelings of constant rejection. I believe he gets his "love" from his kids. I love my kids, but I've been replaced by them in getting his emotional needs met.
And I see your point on words being words. I think he wants things easy and convenient....push me into filing, or force it to be a mutual thing so that he doesn't have to be the bad guy. He wants what he calls an "amicable divorce," IE me making it as easy and happy as possible, and as cheap as possible. He gets very upset at the idea that I would use a lawyer. He would like us to sit in front of the kids and tell them that it is both of our idea. That will not be happening. So he talks about it, but as far as I know has acted on nothing.
I will be studying the detachment and validation threads. Detachment is so intimidating to me, but I know logically it needs to be done. I have put way too much focus on him. I am trying to focus on one day at a time because the future can be so scary.
Thanks again for your advice. It's what I needed to hear.
the best apology is changed behavior. *************** me: 45 h: 48 m: 23 T: 26 DD1:19 DD2:16 DS:11 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
Steve and AS are very wise and give sound advise. If I was in your shoes, I would follow their advise.
Sorry to read your soo familiar story. You found a great place for support. I do not want to give you false hope, and I do not want to give you false despair. We only have have control over ourselves. How we behave and how we interact with others. Those that have the most success around here are the ones that take the focus off of their spouse and put it right on themselves. They make a decision to create their own happiness regardless of what their spouse is doing.
Think about this, how hard is it to change your bad habits? Pretty hard, but set your mind to it and you can. Now, how hard do you think it is to change someone else's? Impossible right?
Things that work are counter-intuitive. For example, you work on the relationship by not working on the relationship. You have to fight every urge you have and not talk about it. Fight every urge to go to him. When he comes to you, you have to be the one to end the interaction first.
My favorite words:
"I am sorry you feel that way" "Perfect" "I have decided" "I need time to think about that"
It amazes me how many stories we see like this where a WAS has gone out and had an affair and then blames the LBS for it. Like it was completely beyond their control. First of all I hope you really see this for what it is. Your H is a selfish, lying cheater who refuses to take responsibility for his actions. Does that sound harsh? Well it should, because regardless of who you thought you were married to before you are now married to a lying cheater who you cannot trust. And your actions need to reflect that.
In my journal I have written harsh statements like that, so that when I am feeling pathetic and lousy and needy I can read that and get my spine back and my brain back on track. As mean as it may seem, I need that slap of reality so I don't believe the crappy things he's said to me about it being my fault. If you read the book, "Not Just Friends," by Dr. Shirley Glass, she explains the reasons why cheaters do this. They all need a story.
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My H has many good qualities, but empathy and compassion are not two of them.
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Interesting you mention that in particular. Do you think he's a narcissist?
I think he became one during the affair. His absolute worst qualities came out. I think he is better than he was. He is able to be compassionate to our kids, but its very difficult for him to be compassionate towards me. Perhaps in his mind I represent all his mistakes.
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Like Steve said, it doesn't sound like you've been doing any DB'ing so far. All the pursuit and such needs to stop. You need to give him time and space and focus on you and the kids.
You are right. Ugh, it's so embarrassingly needy but the hardest thing to do. But detachment is my number one goal. And GAL. I have been happy with the crumbs he tosses out to me, and I don't want to be that pathetic creature anymore.
the best apology is changed behavior. *************** me: 45 h: 48 m: 23 T: 26 DD1:19 DD2:16 DS:11 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
Thank you for all your advice! I will read those threads today.
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Things that work are counter-intuitive. For example, you work on the relationship by not working on the relationship. You have to fight every urge you have and not talk about it. Fight every urge to go to him. When he comes to you, you have to be the one to end the interaction first.
This is what I need to work on asap. And it is a strong urge for me to fight! My love language is words so I have to fight the urge to talk about it. I have to stop thinking about it in my head as well.
the best apology is changed behavior. *************** me: 45 h: 48 m: 23 T: 26 DD1:19 DD2:16 DS:11 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
