Riding the Wave

[SteveLW]

Question, is it normal for the the GALing to piss the wayward spouse off? I've noticed he's been making some really snotty/passive aggressive comments about my running, my diet changes, and social media posts where I'm tagged out with friends (I am not like hanging on randos at the bar, I've mostly been 3rd wheeling with married friends, being in larger groups of married people, or with just my girl friends). I've been ignoring it. But yesterday he walked into the MBR and said "you bought a new scale?" (this thing was like $15 so it clearly wasn't about the money) I said "yup," and just kept eye contact. As much as I wanted to ask why I knew I shouldn't. After an uncomfortable amount of eye contact he finally broke gaze and said "oh" and turned around and walked out. It was a super weird interaction. I didn't think GAL would irritate him.

Yes. Very common. Believe it or not the WAS still likes to have control over the LBS. Even though they are leaving them. He is used to certain dynamics in your relationship with him. When that changes, they start feeling that loss of control. You are Plan B, and he wants his Plan B firmly in place in case Plan A fizzles or never materializes. When you GAL he feels like Plan B is going away. This scares him and he will start acting out towards you. I wrote a few days ago to another poster about this very dynamic.

So the short answer is yes. Keep GAL. Like a mad woman.

[AnotherStander]

Question, is it normal for the the GALing to piss the wayward spouse off?

Yes as Steve said it's normal. He wants you sitting at home crying and pining away for him. He wants you secure as Plan B in case his grandiose plans of finding the perfect replacement don't pan out. When you instead go out and GAL and (GASP!) even enjoy yourself, well then he realizes he's losing his Plan B and doesn't have the control he thought he had. And that at first will make him angry, then later make him sad, then yet later possibly make him question what he's done and start the process of sorting his life out.

I've noticed he's been making some really snotty/passive aggressive comments about my running, my diet changes, and social media posts where I'm tagged out with friends (I am not like hanging on randos at the bar, I've mostly been 3rd wheeling with married friends, being in larger groups of married people, or with just my girl friends). I've been ignoring it.

Good, ignoring it is exactly what you should do.

But yesterday he walked into the MBR and said "you bought a new scale?" (this thing was like $15 so it clearly wasn't about the money) I said "yup," and just kept eye contact. As much as I wanted to ask why I knew I shouldn't. After an uncomfortable amount of eye contact he finally broke gaze and said "oh" and turned around and walked out. It was a super weird interaction.

Perfect!

I didn't think GAL would irritate him.

It's not the GAL that's doing it, it's his realization that he can't control you and keep you where he wants you. He's got to learn to miss you.

[KristinG]

WF,

I'm sorry you're here - this really s*cks. Your H doesn't know his head from his butt right now. It will likely be a long time until he gains some clarity. Like a few of the others have mentioned, keep the focus on you.

This is going to sound harsh, but you have to learn to stop checking in on him. I see you making the same mistakes I have made, and honestly, it will drive you far more crazy trying to know everything he is up to. Checking the phone bill, monitoring social media, and feeling his car to see if it's warm? These activities will only further perpetuate your suffering.

It sounds like you are getting out and GALing, making positive changes for WAY, and enjoying time with Ds. Focus on these things instead. H is going to have great days and bad days and, if you let them, his ups and downs will affect you. Instead, focus on your own growth and becoming the wayfarer that you've always wanted to be. Vent here, and know that you have so much support and people rooting for you!


((hugs))

KG

[wayfarer]

Just kind of journaling: Read the Infidelity and MLC chapters in DR last night. Then got on here and gorged on the MLC board. So I think I can say with certainty this 37 year old man is deep in a MLC. The same person who was completely MIA for 12+ hours 3 days ago, made dinner last night so I could go on a run with a friend, and must have used 'babe' at least 5 times. I seriously don't know how people ride this insanity out for years. I desperately want to be that light house. I equally want to throat punch him. ( I have not nor ever will hit him) Truly, if I didn't have an amazing support system who won't tell me they think I'm crazy for sticking this out to my face, and a C I have no idea how I or any one would survive this ridiculousness for more than a few weeks.

[wayfarer]

Ok I'm sorry for rapid fire posting but this man just IM'd me at work asking when we're going to tell the girls about him and his daughter moving out and our divorce. When I said I'd rather not talk about this at work he kept pushing. What i got was he heard the March 1st date as the day I wanted him out of the house. When I said that wasn't the plan the plan was to reassess on March 1, he responded with "I don't really see me changing between now and March 1"

What the hell does that even mean?

I got him to agree to talk about this tonight away from the girls. And not while I'm at work. But I could kill him. This is insane. I want my husband. I want my marriage. But I don't want this version of my husband and I sure as hell don't want this marriage.

[SteveLW]

Just kind of journaling: Read the Infidelity and MLC chapters in DR last night. Then got on here and gorged on the MLC board. So I think I can say with certainty this 37 year old man is deep in a MLC. The same person who was completely MIA for 12+ hours 3 days ago, made dinner last night so I could go on a run with a friend, and must have used 'babe' at least 5 times. I seriously don't know how people ride this insanity out for years. I desperately want to be that light house. I equally want to throat punch him. ( I have not nor ever will hit him) Truly, if I didn't have an amazing support system who won't tell me they think I'm crazy for sticking this out to my face, and a C I have no idea how I or any one would survive this ridiculousness for more than a few weeks.

Remember, the WAS is on their own emotional roller-coaster. MLC. WS. Whatever they are they cycle just like you do. Further, they like to give you some breadcrumbs to keep you squarely in place as their Plan B. That is likely the making dinner and calling you babe.

Ok I'm sorry for rapid fire posting but this man just IM'd me at work asking when we're going to tell the girls about him and his daughter moving out and our divorce. When I said I'd rather not talk about this at work he kept pushing. What i got was he heard the March 1st date as the day I wanted him out of the house. When I said that wasn't the plan the plan was to reassess on March 1, he responded with "I don't really see me changing between now and March 1"

What the hell does that even mean?

I got him to agree to talk about this tonight away from the girls. And not while I'm at work. But I could kill him. This is insane. I want my husband. I want my marriage. But I don't want this version of my husband and I sure as hell don't want this marriage.

I would have continued to avoid the messages.

"Sorry, very busy, can't discuss now." Then ignore him.

Tonight, when he talks, listen and validate. Study the validation thread. Remember, you can deflect too when he tries to pin you down.

"So when are we telling the girls I am moving out?"

"I really need some time to consider everything, this is a lot to think about."

Listen. Validate. Deflect. Do not get into back and forths. Do not get into specifics.

I don't remember, have you read DB/DR?

And my W was the same way. "We can do MC but I don't think it will help." "We can go to this marriage retreat but it probably won't change anything."

BELIEVE NOTHING HE SAYS. AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT HE DOES!

[wayfarer]

I just finished DR. But this is all moving so damn quickly. I just got the book right before Christmas. I've only gotten half way decent at detachment. We went from fine to this in 90 days.

I will definitely review the validation post. But I don't know how to get through this conversation with out him pinning me to something. How to do I get him to agree to like a Retrouvaille before he runs out the door like he's on fire? We have one near by in March, April and June. I don't know why everything has to be a decision right now.

I'm sprialing on this because he hasn't even made a half hearted fake effort to try to save this. I have no idea what on a Wednesday afternoon would make him think, well I think we should have the D talk via IM. This is such chaos.

PS I'm taking a run in the gym at work before I go home or I won't survive this. I know that.

[SteveLW]

ANy way to make plans? Get a sitter for the kids, make plans. Then inform him something came up and you can't talk tonight.

That will buy you time to study validation. To mentally and emotionally prepare. And I really think you are strong enough not to agree to anything.

Even statements like: "I do not think you should move out. Ever. But I can't stop you from doing so." Are better than saying "Yes I agree" to something that you do not agree to.

Stay strong wayfarer. Learn. Grow. Don't try to fix him, just focus on you.

[sandi2]

How well did you know him before you married him seven yrs ago? Anything in his past that could be triggered by some recent event and throw him into a crisis?

Has there been any issues with inappropriate behavior since you'be been together? How does he act around women? Does he get flirty? Does he make sexual comments to you about other women? Does he have private friendships with females that just happen to exclude spouses? If you answer yes to any of these questions, you will need to seriously search your heart and know if you really want to continue with this man. If there has been a pattern of pushing the marital boundaries, then I doubt the problem is MLC, but rather, waywardness.

Sometimes MLC continues for a looooong time. Are you prepared, emotionally---financially---spiritually---(well, let's just say in every way) to take on the challenge? This is not going to be resolved overnight, if he is having a MLC. IMHO, if a man is ready to sexually share his W with another man, in order to experience his own sexual needs from other women, instead of being faithful.........the fat lady is warming her vocal cords on this MR. KWIM?

If you decide you want to fight for your M, then the first thing you need to know is that fighting for your M means you don't fight with him. Seriously, you have got to throw out the old score board. Don't misunderstand, I'm not telling you to become a doormat. I'm saying that you will need to change your mental attitude and learn a new method that does not include screaming, shouting, cussing, slamming, throwing, cold shoulders, icy tones, one-ups, getting even, and........the rest of a long list you may be guilty of using, IDK.

He is not going to change any time soon, if ever. So, how do you respond and/or react to this guy he has become? We can't tell you everything in one post, but we can help you get started. The post that was sent your way by Cadet or Job, has a ton of valuable information, so please don't ignore it. If you need a guide as to how to behave on a daily basis, look to Sandi's Rules. The next thing I suggest you study is the subject of personal boundaries. The purpose of boundaries is all about protecting your feelings, dignity, and respect. It's not about controlling the other person. The only one you have power to control is yourself. Boundaries are necessary, but they are not effective if there are no consequences for the person who ignores your boundaries. Make sense? We can discuss this subject more, if you want. Just a suggestion, you may want to research boundaries in a relationship.

If you have a set of moral standards, spiritual beliefs, etc., that guides your daily life and how you interact with strangers, co-workers, friends, and loved ones........then you use those guides to form emotional, protective, boundaries. Remember, it is not about punishment, control, getting even, or paying back. Study the link on boundaries.

The next important, and I think the most misunderstood technique, is DB detaching. The link in the homework is pretty wordy, and if I can remember, I'll send a copy of DB detaching that is a shorter form, to get you started. I think it is hard for the newcomer b/c they are usually the ones who want to save the MR, and their emotions have been traumatized. IMHO, it seems most LBS's have difficulty maintaining even keel. Most LBS's will dramatically shift too far up or down, east or west, left or right. It's like driving a vehicle on the street. You have to stay between the lines, or take a big chance of making things much, much worse.

Your H has made it pretty clear that he is not interested in you or the MR. The more you try to persuade him to see things differently, or the more you try to vocally convince him the M can change for the better..........the more he is going to resist, He is in an emotional battle with life. He will drag down and/or fight anyone who tries to tell him what he doesn't want to hear. He cannot learn through hearing words. He has to learn visually and experiential. Anything else is useless. This is one reason facing the consequences from dishonoring boundaries works well. Boundaries are not an opportunity to lecture. He is tone deaf. He can't read anything you might suggest, nor watch a video or listen to a tape about marriage. Those features have died. Therefore, you have to discipline yourself when you have the desire to explode on him, or try once more to just have a relationship discussion. It only sets you back to square one.

I said all that ^^^^^ to introduce the action I believe works best. Based on the mindset he has, he sees you as another source of emotional pressure. Maybe he sees it as the main source of unhappiness, or whatever. He sees himself happier if only he were free. His life is passing by too quickly and he will resist anything that gets in his way of grabbing for the gusto that awaits him. Ugh! Unfortunately, that includes having other women. If he had high morals, they seem to be gone, and currently, he is suggesting an open M. That tells me he is willing to put not only his M, but his W at risk......by inviting others to be intimate. He is so wrapped up in himself that he doesn't see anything else. He may have an unmet emotional need, but he is currently unwilling to "do the right thing" like a logical, sane adult. To cut to the chase, I am suggesting you become the dump-er, instead of the dump-ee. Let your attitude, GAL, personal attention, one-on-one time, home environment, family activity, etc., paint a picture for him. He sees he is losing his W of seven yrs. He no longer gets text messages from her throughout the day/night, checking in with him. If he wants to spend the night out, he has to get a babysitter, b/c his W is out getting her own life. He doesn't know what she's doing, b/c she doesn't care to share anything. In fact, there are several things about his W that tells him she is moving on. She doesn't ask him anything about his life, their MR, his future plans........nothing. She doesn't complain, preach, get revenge, nor act like a victim. He doesn't know what is going on in her head, but she looks and acts differently. He wonders if she wants a divorce. He wonders if he has lost her.

I can almost read your mind. "Isn't this exactly what he wants?" I can explain more, later. Just let me assure you that I am not telling you to do any action that goes against your personal belief system. I'm not telling you to do anything with revenge or hatred. You need to let him go. I mean, you behave as if you have emotionally let go of him. That's what he needs to feel. No pressure from you. Another thing you have to do is let go of the anger. Okay, so that will be tough, but don't show anger to him. You can be spunky, but not angry.

Got to close this long post. Hope I have not thrown too much into one post. If you have questions, please ask.

[sandi2]

Here's a shorter version explaining detachment.

**************************************************************************************


Definition of Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love (known as to lovingly detach*), we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flip-side, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my duty/job to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanding or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and not bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow S to be who he/she really is rather than who I want him/her to be.

IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -

We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures.