Thank you both. May, those words helped me a lot. I tried to keep them in my mind.
That was awful. H was very business like, and wanted to discuss finances and custody. We talked about it some, he put out some proposals and I responded. He is now taking the stance that he just wants to get this wrapped up, it’s been dragging on and he just wants to move forward because he feels stuck, and that the only reason this divorce hasn’t progressed at all is because he was procrastinating. He’s pretending the last big talk in November in which he wavered, and the 2 months since just didn’t happen. It’s infuriating and gut wrenching and just so confusing. I resisted the urge to push to him on it, and didn’t bring up the last big R talk. That was difficult. I mostly just listened and responded, I got a little frustrated a few times but kept it calm. I cried several times, but I kept my composure. It feels like he’s compartmentalized everything, and seemed cold and business like. At the end he apologized for hurting me and gave me an awkward hug and thanked me for talking. Right now I’m really struggling with just not addressing the confusion he expressed. It feels so unfair and a bit insane. It’s so painful and incomprehensible. I’m so confused right now. It’s a total mind f***k. I’m fighting the urge to try to reason with him and convince him and get emotional with him. I won’t do it, of course.
I also remembered that right before (literally hours before) our court date in November, he was being extremely cold and business like, almost angry and aggressive. Afterwards is when he expressed wavering. If nothing else, it’s a reminder to me that he hides all other emotions behind that front. This allows me to realize that no, I am not crazy and I have not been imagining the way things have been, nor have I imagined the things he said in November. He needs to believe that his feelings about this have always been that he is sure he wants a divorce and that he has not doubted that. He needs to convince himself of that, and that I am delusional for thinking anything else could have been happening. But that doesn’t mean I need to buy into that false narrative.
Thinking of you. Hugs. You are NOT crazy. (he might be.) My H has been the same-- all over the map, from "I want a D" to "slow down, there's a world in which the girls never know this happened." I just can't put any belief into what he says, because I don't think HE knows what he wants and the words are just a reflection of the crazy crap that is bouncing around inside his head. I think our Hs sound very similar with the compartmentalizing and justifying of behaviors.
Like Scout said-- don't beat yourself up over how you're feeling. *OF COURSE* you feel that way! Let yourself be in the sadness for awhile-- maybe set a time limit-- and then see if you can put it away for awhile and move on. Maybe just go snuggle your sleeping D. (I do that a lot!! It helps.)
Are you OK with the custody arrangement and finances that he proposed? I might try to focus more there and less on him, if you can.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Anger and resentment provide the fuel the WAS needs to exit the MR. Who knows why? Maybe it helps deal with the guilt if you think the other person is delusional. I don't know, and it doesn't matter. It hurts like h3ll to go through it.
"Believe none of what they say and half of what they do." His feelings are alien to you. If his behavior/words/actions ever became consistent, you would then have a window into his feelings. Until then, you don't.
I know it's hard to fight those urges to reason. So sorry you are going through this.
HopeCA - big hugs to you and wanted to let you know that you are not alone. I find myself tearing up as I read your posts especially these last few. I am in a very very similar situation (almost in the identical spot/timeline as Cardinal) I have read your thread. I was just forwarded financial discovery papers a couple days ago and imagine that D will be in my near future. My heart hurts for you because like many on here it is the hope that we hold onto that keeps us strong but it can also be so crippling when our H intentionally or unintentionally (‘cause who knows where their minds are at) can dangle hope with loving behaviour and then yank it just as quickly with heartbreaking words. The signs are very difficult to read because they are so inconsistent...I’m learning that this is why I have to get off of his rollercoaster. My H too is very easy going and will always take the path of least resistance so reading your posts I completely understand how you are feeling. I feel like if I ignore him he will continue to run without looking back, but when I give him attention he doesn’t seem any different. I too am learning how to detach even more. Please take care of yourself and D...Hugs.
Thank you to everyone who posts here and replies to my posts. It does help to feel connected to others who empathize with us. I’ve never been much of a joiner in terms of groups, teams or boards like these, but I get it now. It helps to feel less alone.
Update— I did something that is frowned upon here, not at all DB approved. But, I followed my heart. I sent my H a text that told him how I felt about us and what’s happening and what’s possible, and I asked him on a date. I know, I know. It sounds completely insane and foolish and pathetic etc. But I followed my gut. I got the following response, which is way, way more positive than what I was bracing myself for, and is also vague and confusing:
H: I really appreciate what you’re saying and I think about it a lot. It does feel like things could be good and it has felt nice lately even though I can’t 100% relax, old scars. I have been struggling really hard with myself and all of my emotions and thoughts about everything. I have been making very conscious efforts not to make any big decisions in this time. I think that having a “date” with you would be dangerous(emotionally) for me. I am in a time of real growth, not drinking, exercising, doing yoga, going to bed early, trying to nurture myself. I feel a bit lost, frail. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
If nothing else, this tells me what I suspected, which is that he is not sure what he wants. That is different than being positive he wants a divorce, so I’ll take it. I am going to use this as a true learning moment for myself. Last time I allowed my hopes and expectations to go way up, and I’ve been suffering a lot these last couple of days. I need to put concerted effort into allowing the positives to exist in a way that I can observe, of course I will hope, but I must MUST temper my expectations of what it means or doesn’t mean, because I have no idea. He is sharing that he is feeling lost and having a hard time. I’m taking that at face value.
And it’s impossible not to be confused by his statement that he’s consciously not making any big decisions right now...I’d call a divorce a pretty big decision. Not sure what to make of that part.
Yes, ridiculous to not be making any big decisions right now... you know, except getting divorced. Ha. Ha. Ha.
My guess is he feels it is already in motion so the "decision" would be to actively work to stop it rather than to keep going with the motions.
I think it is good that he is focusing on himself, being healthy, etc. He can't be a good partner to you (either as a H or co-parent) if he is so f***ed up, and so the fact that he is able to recognize this AND open enough to share it back with you seems positive.
Originally Posted by HopeCA
Last time I allowed my hopes and expectations to go way up, and I’ve been suffering a lot these last couple of days. I need to put concerted effort into allowing the positives to exist in a way that I can observe, of course I will hope, but I must MUST temper my expectations of what it means or doesn’t mean, because I have no idea.
I also have the hardest time with separating my hopes from expectations. I like how you put that-- allow positives to exist in a way that you can observe, but don't put any expectations into it one way or the other. Maybe try to observe it like a biologist observing an animal in the wild... oooh, H did this behavior or said these words, interesting... but stop yourself from trying to analyze the why.
I know it is hard. So hard. I ugly cried tonight for the first time in a pretty long while. I ordered a book on divorce and it came, H saw it. Suddenly all starting to feel more real.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I have much the same situation. Mine filed in mid November and for a few weeks, came back hard toward me but since then has backed off. We talked Monday and he said he hasn't changed his mind. He can finalize it next week but said he is in no hurry to do so and implied ever so slightly that "trust" was his issue and could change his mind. Those crumbs aren't good enough for me anymore. It's all BS. I twisted myself into a pretzel trying to make changes and alleviate complaints. We have no kids so that isn't an issue. I made a conscious decision yesterday to let it go and have gone dark. Mine has not yet experienced the consequences of what he has done but he is about to, and I am ready to go. I'm not saying it doesn't hurt - it hurts a lot. But I am too old to be wasting time like this anymore. If it is my destiny to go on alone and ultimately with someone else, it's time to move toward that. I still don't think mine can pull the trigger in the courtroom but I am not hanging around waiting to find out.
(((HopeCa))). So sorry you are going through this. I know how hard this is. I also know that there is life after divorce...and it is as good as you make it. I don’t say that to discourage you from the hope that you have that you and your H will R at some point. Anything is possible. However, I do want to caution you.
The thing is...after BD, it feel like the situation is so very new and it is, to the LBS. However, it is not new for the WS/WAS. They have been feeling this way and thinking about D for a LONG time... in some cases it has been for years. With my XH it had been about five years. That’s a lot of thinking and feeling and justifying and feeding of resentments that has to happen for them to get to the point of BD. This is not a decision they are going to step back from easily. It took too much for them to build up the courage to do it. They fear the D but they fear going backwards and having to go through it all again EVEN MORE. Of course they will have doubts and you will see them waiver from time to time. And when they do, most won’t slow down to think and reevaluate their decision making. Most will double down and push forward which is why we often see them become hard and steely-eyed so quickly after we saw them waiver and show some softness towards us.
The other thing to keep in mind is that they don’t want to hurt us. They don’t. Ironic given that they probably hurts us more than anyone ever has but it’s the truth. So when they start to see how much we are hurting, they throw us a bone and do what your H did. I had similar communications from my H...that he was hurting, trying to figure things out, working on himself, etc... What he should have said to me is that he was figuring out how to D with as little pain and upset as possible but that was the extent of it. For the vast majority of us on here, D is inevitable but it doesn’t mean there isn’t a possibility of R in the future. ANYTHING can happen. So you can hope for that but you shouldn’t count on it or make your decisions based on it. Your marriage, as you knew it, is OVER and you need to accept this and take the focus off of him and put it back on you. For real. 100%. Anything less than that cements you as Plan B and Plan B is only attractive to a WS if they firmly believe Plan A isn’t going to work. Even then, they still may skip over Plan B and try to come up with a Plan C. Remember what they say on here... If he wants to come back, you will know it. If he doesn’t, you will be confused. Truer words were never spoken.
I am so sorry Hope. I would love nothing more than to say that I think the confusion he has shown is a good sign. But I can’t because I don’t believe it is. I just think it is par for the course and what I read in his response is him trying to soften the blow...trying not to hurt you. I think May is right too. When he talks about not making big decisions...he is referring to changing his mind on the D. Trust me...what he is doing in his reflection time is building his resolve and courage to keep the train moving down the track. Remember...he has been working towards this in his mind for a long time. To him, the worst is over. He’s told you. He’s moved out. It would take a major shift for him to turn back now. (((HUGS)))
