CALL 303-444-7004 to get started right away!

 

 


A Divorce Busting® Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.


A Divorce Busting Telephone Coach
can help you save your marriage singlehandedly!
CALL 303-444-7004
or see Coaching Packages online at the Divorce Busting Store

A Message from Michele
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 8 of 11 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 11
Re: Dealing with WAH who wants his cake and eat it [Re: AnotherStander] #2881622
01/21/20 06:38 AM
01/21/20 06:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 104
P
Pommy99 Offline OP
Member
Pommy99  Offline OP
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Most IC's are just there to listen and validate. Your H came out of the first session wanting to work on the M, and the 2nd wanting a divorce. That's not a reflection on the IC, it's his scrambled mind. He's confused and in turmoil. The IC probably just validates whether crazy stuff is coming out of his mouth. LBS's often think that if the WAS gets in IC then they will "talk some sense" into them and save the M. It never, ever happens. They listen. They validate. They tell the client/ patient what they want to hear. They collect their money. That's it.

After the first session H concluded that the IC had misunderstood what he had told her, as he didnít now believe that the EAP was an influencing factor in his feelings (or lack of) for me. The NC with the EAP was broken in a matter of days. He was hesitant about going back to the IC and I realised that he felt she had pushed an agenda that he didnít want. At the second session, based on the new information that she was armed with, she suggested S. So yes, to your point, perhaps he is driving the agenda and solution, not the IC. Although to be fair, I am glad that they are exploring all possibilities and he is starting to open up to someone who may help him unravel his mind.

Re: Dealing with WAH who wants his cake and eat it [Re: Pommy99] #2881717
01/21/20 07:49 PM
01/21/20 07:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 403
M
may22 Offline
Member
may22  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 403
Originally Posted by Pommy99
H has departed for the city. We hugged and held each other close a lot yesterday, all initiated by him, including at bed time. I think this was largely down to guilt in relation to his decision to leave. He also initiated R talks earlier, as always being tormented over the contented life and friendship he has with me versus that desire for a deeper connection. He is struggling to understand -and asked me - why I donít feel the need to go and find it, knowing that he canít give me what I need. I didnít have time to respond before he had to leave.


Hi Pommy,

I feel like our sitches are a little different from some of the others out here, because our Hs haven't completely been taken over by aliens and remain in many ways the H we knew before-- the "best friend," funny, kind, affectionate-- yet are still totally living a lie. (Kristin is in a sort of similar situation, though her W says she wants to get back together but her actions don't follow. Our Hs say they want out but can't pull the trigger.)

Someone on here said to me that friends don't lie and break significant promises to their friends. I keep thinking H is my best friend, but if a friend did to me what H did-- lying about something significant for two years, breaking a promise at the heart of our friendship? We'd be done for sure. Our Hs aren't acting like friends. (Of course, you don't have kids with friends, which is the big complicating factor for me.)

The other thing that I think might be a little different for you and me (KG probably is in this boat too) is that we have a *lot* of information on the confusion going on inside their heads, simply because they are telling us and talking to us. Many of these WSs are just acting like a**holes and aren't engaging in R talks, aren't expressing all this confusion, etc.-- you can just see it in their behavior.

But here is what I'm starting to think... so what? It doesn't matter that we have a backstage pass instead of a front row seat to the sadness, confusion, guilt, fear, etc. going on in our H's heads. It just doesn't matter. It might help us with being more empathetic to what is going on, but it doesn't change their behavior or mean squat about where they might end up. I also wonder if having that information, along with the friendship/niceness part of our Hs still being present, is making it more difficult to step back and see what is going on with clear eyes.

What triggered me to write and think this was you saying he was initiating hugs due to guilt in/re his decision to leave... maybe one step to take (this is for me too) is to stop trying to label his behavior and stop caring about what might be driving it. Like as soon as you feel yourself thinking about it and doing it-- just stop and think about something else. I can't get drawn into the craziness inside his head. I can only control ME.

And also... I'm torn on how important it is for us to share where we are with our Hs. On the one hand, he's told me (sometimes significantly after the fact) that the things I've said to him have had a lot of impact. On the other hand, any things I say probably just add to the confusion and make him feel controlled by me, unless all I do is repeat over and over-- GO and it will all be OK. (I won't say the all OK part. But I am saying the GO, if that is what you want part.)

Originally Posted by Pommy99
But it is something for me to think about, because I am starting to question what I want, and whether my vision of us being happily married is as much of a fantasy as his idealised view of divorce.

My H definitely thinks my vision of a happy M2.0 is an equivalent fantasy to him living next door with AP but coming over every night for dinner and still traveling together as a family (without AP). Bahahahaha.

Probably we all have some element of fantasy in our idealized scenarios, and being happily married takes work-- work we (including our Hs) all didn't do well enough the first time around or we wouldn't be where we are today. I'm working on letting go of that fantasy and sticking with today. Maybe we get there, or not. It is so frustrating and sad and lonely, I know.


Me (44) H (40)
M:12 T:16
D7 and D9
BD1 ILYB: April 2019
BD2 H told me about EA: August 2019 (started Jan 2019)
BD3 Just kidding!! Been a PA for the past two years!! (Dec 2019)
Re: Dealing with WAH who wants his cake and eat it [Re: may22] #2881730
01/21/20 09:15 PM
01/21/20 09:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 104
P
Pommy99 Offline OP
Member
Pommy99  Offline OP
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by may22

The other thing that I think might be a little different for you and me (KG probably is in this boat too) is that we have a *lot* of information on the confusion going on inside their heads, simply because they are telling us and talking to us. Many of these WSs are just acting like a**holes and aren't engaging in R talks, aren't expressing all this confusion, etc.-- you can just see it in their behavior.

But here is what I'm starting to think... so what? It doesn't matter that we have a backstage pass instead of a front row seat to the sadness, confusion, guilt, fear, etc. going on in our H's heads. It just doesn't matter. It might help us with being more empathetic to what is going on, but it doesn't change their behavior or mean squat about where they might end up. I also wonder if having that information, along with the friendship/niceness part of our Hs still being present, is making it more difficult to step back and see what is going on with clear eyes.


I have found myself making excuses for his behaviour...he's confused...he doesn't know what he wants...and I have been brushing aside the lies and deceit. I feel like I have been TOO forgiving, because I apply some rationale to his behaviour. When I take a step back, I see there is no excuse for the behaviour. I know that I have not deserved the lies, the cover ups, the pretences, the gaslighting. I go back to the analogy of what if this were our daughter? What would H and I both say if we saw someone treating our daughter in the way he has treated me? We would tell her that it's not acceptable, that there is no excuse, and that she deserves better. H would be infuriated to think that someone had the audacity to treat his daughter with such disrespect

Originally Posted by may22

What triggered me to write and think this was you saying he was initiating hugs due to guilt in/re his decision to leave... maybe one step to take (this is for me too) is to stop trying to label his behavior and stop caring about what might be driving it. Like as soon as you feel yourself thinking about it and doing it-- just stop and think about something else. I can't get drawn into the craziness inside his head. I can only control ME.


Yes, I now realise more than ever that hugs and kisses are meaningless (or at least, there's no point trying to second guess their significance). I've had a year of hugs and kisses and look where we are!

Originally Posted by may22

And also... I'm torn on how important it is for us to share where we are with our Hs. On the one hand, he's told me (sometimes significantly after the fact) that the things I've said to him have had a lot of impact. On the other hand, any things I say probably just add to the confusion and make him feel controlled by me, unless all I do is repeat over and over-- GO and it will all be OK. (I won't say the all OK part. But I am saying the GO, if that is what you want part.)


I feel that what I say, and how he interprets it, completely depends on where his head is at, at any given time. E.g I have told him that our daughter says she misses him while he is in the city. This could be interpreted by him as emotional blackmail, or it could trigger some deeper thoughts that have him really consider the impact of his leaving. I've been very mindful of what I share with him and when - timing, etc.

Originally Posted by may22

My H definitely thinks my vision of a happy M2.0 is an equivalent fantasy to him living next door with AP but coming over every night for dinner and still traveling together as a family (without AP). Bahahahaha.


oh I'm sure in time you'll be besties with AP and you can ALL holiday together grin

Re: Dealing with WAH who wants his cake and eat it [Re: Pommy99] #2882097
01/24/20 09:26 AM
01/24/20 09:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 104
P
Pommy99 Offline OP
Member
Pommy99  Offline OP
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 104
H came back from the city last night and initiated a conversation, saying heís had complete clarity and knows he wants to leave, and that the only reason he is still here, or keeps changing his mind, is guilt. He has been looking for somewhere to rent.

In spite of how Iíve been feeling towards him, and that maybe I had had enough, this wasnít the outcome I wanted. He maintains that this is nothing to do with anyone else. Of course I cant be sure of that, but on some levels I believe him.

He says he has tried to get feelings back but they arenít there, so he buries his head and tells himself that he loves me and everything will be ok and fall into place. But then the feelings of what is lacking in the relationship keep coming, back and thatís when he feels he has to leave. He still maintains Iím his best friend and he loves me deeply so I am finding it hard to let go.

I feel like I have run out of options. We have been in this sitch fo nearly a year, ironically had an incredibly happy year together after a few years of bad marriage, but itís a friendship not a romantic relationship.

It feels so awful,right now, I feel hopeless and helpless.

Re: Dealing with WAH who wants his cake and eat it [Re: Pommy99] #2882109
01/24/20 01:14 PM
01/24/20 01:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 150
N
Newbie20 Offline
Member
Newbie20  Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 150
Ugh. A lot of us can relate. I have endured 2 years of separation. Here's what I can tell you. The only cure, only hope for this situation is to really let them go, go experience the breakup and see how they like it when it becomes real. That means, limited to no contact (kid and business only) initiated by you. Zero pursuit or pressure. You do the best you can to put your life back together so you're operating from strength. I doubt your story is over yet, even if he gets into a rebound with someone. But you can't put your life on hold for that. I'm not saying it's easy, it is not. But it is the only way short of hurling yourself off a building.

Re: Dealing with WAH who wants his cake and eat it [Re: Newbie20] #2882112
01/24/20 02:00 PM
01/24/20 02:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 104
P
Pommy99 Offline OP
Member
Pommy99  Offline OP
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by Newbie20
Ugh. A lot of us can relate. I have endured 2 years of separation. Here's what I can tell you. The only cure, only hope for this situation is to really let them go, go experience the breakup and see how they like it when it becomes real. That means, limited to no contact (kid and business only) initiated by you. Zero pursuit or pressure. You do the best you can to put your life back together so you're operating from strength. I doubt your story is over yet, even if he gets into a rebound with someone. But you can't put your life on hold for that. I'm not saying it's easy, it is not. But it is the only way short of hurling yourself off a building.

Wow, 2 years of separation, thatís a long time. Are you still hoping to reconcile? I havenít read your story.

I know I need to let him go, as the sitch will never change otherwise. I know today will hurt, tomorrow will hurt, next week will hurt, but in 12months, I will be in a better place. If things stay the same, then every day will be like yesterday, or last week.

Re: Dealing with WAH who wants his cake and eat it [Re: Pommy99] #2882120
01/24/20 02:20 PM
01/24/20 02:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 150
N
Newbie20 Offline
Member
Newbie20  Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 150
Mine has been in contact with me the entire time, has had no OW, and supposedly the reason for the separation was from him to have space from my controlling behavior which has since been eradicated. He has offered reconciliation twice during this period but didn't follow through. Then he filed for D which is not final yet. He still isn't completely gone IMO but I'm stuck in limbo land until he either does it or I give up in m own mind.

Re: Dealing with WAH who wants his cake and eat it [Re: Pommy99] #2882193
01/24/20 08:30 PM
01/24/20 08:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 403
M
may22 Offline
Member
may22  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 403
hi Pommy,

I'm so sorry. I know that s*cks.

I don't know if this helps or hurts, but my H maintained through all of this-- until he finally revealed the true extent and depth of his A three weeks ago-- that the AP had nothing to do with any of this, that our troubles were between the two of us and totally separate from her. (Just like yours! So funny/sad we have WH twins.) I might just discount him saying that. He might even believe it himself right now because he HAS to in order to do what he's doing, but it is BS and you shouldn't buy it.

Also, just like my sorry H, claiming to be "trying" to get the feelings back whilst still in an EA/PA/infatuation/whatever with an OW-- is simply not trying! It is impossible. Imagine if you had some hot fun side guy in the city who was stroking your ego, telling you how beautiful you are, your husband doesn't understand or appreciate you, even if you aren't in a PA you are sharing romantic dinners and long talks and whatever... he listens to you, he wants your advice, he is always happy to see you. And then you go home to your H. Your "friend" is texting you, calling you, making you feel beautiful and wanted and special. Your H is someone you know backwards and forwards and no matter what, there just isn't going to be that level of excitement and energy and what-ifs with him. Your H has all the baggage of real life, kids, mortgage, housework, bills.

Think about that. How could you POSSIBLY imagine that the excitement and fun you see with your "friend" can come back into your R with your H? It is like a drug. I mean... I get it! It probably *does* feel like a missing puzzle piece. It just isn't real.

The good side of him walking (if he actually does... saying he wants to and actually doing it are two different things) is now you're out of limbo. Now you can DB like a champ. It is HARD to do it when he's in your house. Now he gets to realize that his fantasy of still being best friends with you is not going to happen, and losing you as his best friend is going to hurt.

Hang in there.


Me (44) H (40)
M:12 T:16
D7 and D9
BD1 ILYB: April 2019
BD2 H told me about EA: August 2019 (started Jan 2019)
BD3 Just kidding!! Been a PA for the past two years!! (Dec 2019)
Re: Dealing with WAH who wants his cake and eat it [Re: may22] #2882212
01/24/20 10:31 PM
01/24/20 10:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 94
O
oceangrl Offline
Member
oceangrl  Offline
Member
O
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by may22


I don't know if this helps or hurts, but my H maintained through all of this-- until he finally revealed the true extent and depth of his A three weeks ago-- that the AP had nothing to do with any of this, that our troubles were between the two of us and totally separate from her. (Just like yours! So funny/sad we have WH twins.) I might just discount him saying that. He might even believe it himself right now because he HAS to in order to do what he's doing, but it is BS and you shouldn't buy it.


Honestly, what is with this idea that the A or AP has nothing to do with any marriage problems? I was floored when I heard this same thing. I felt like I lived on planet crazy and he was the mayor. Of course it would be very convenient for this to be true. Then it can be more our fault and they have to feel "less bad" about it all. Or end things. It sounds like your husband is still in the fantasy nuts stage, and until the A is over and withdrawals are done, that won't change.


the best apology is changed behavior.
***************
me: 45 h: 48
m: 23 T: 26
DD1:19 DD2:16 DS:11
BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016
BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016
BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
Re: Dealing with WAH who wants his cake and eat it [Re: may22] #2882222
01/24/20 11:20 PM
01/24/20 11:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 162
C
cardinal Offline
Member
cardinal  Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 162
Hi, Pommy. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this now. Feeling hopeless and helpless is really hard. may's words helped me put things in perspective again, and I hope they help you too. Let me quote this part again real quick:

Originally Posted by may22
Imagine if you had some hot fun side guy in the city who was stroking your ego, telling you how beautiful you are, your husband doesn't understand or appreciate you, even if you aren't in a PA you are sharing romantic dinners and long talks and whatever... he listens to you, he wants your advice, he is always happy to see you. And then you go home to your H. Your "friend" is texting you, calling you, making you feel beautiful and wanted and special. Your H is someone you know backwards and forwards and no matter what, there just isn't going to be that level of excitement and energy and what-ifs with him. Your H has all the baggage of real life, kids, mortgage, housework, bills.

Think about that. How could you POSSIBLY imagine that the excitement and fun you see with your "friend" can come back into your R with your H? It is like a drug. I mean... I get it! It probably *does* feel like a missing puzzle piece. It just isn't real.


Even if no AP, it seems there's always a friend fulfilling this role. And if not, there's still some elusive thing/person/feeling that the spouse thinking is that missing puzzle piece. In any case, it's fantasy, not real life. I like what Newbie says tooóthis doesn't necessarily mean your story with H is over. Sending hugs!


T: 16 M:10
Page 8 of 11 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, job, Virginia 

Save Your Marriage! Schedule Online

Schedule a phone consultation with a Divorce Busting® Coach! Call: 800-664-2435 or 303-444-7004