^^^^^^ wow doodler. That is a pretty powerful story.
I am almost positively sure that my ex had told his OW that I was a an awful Un loving woman who was horrible to him. That when the baby came that was all I was about ( I heard this from someone else) which was absolutely not true because I was the one trying to keep the M alive and he began his A while I was pregnant.) but I am pretty darned sure that he told his W many untrue things about our marriage where she felt as if she was justified in doing what she did. And now she knows all that isn’t true and has to live with that.
If she had at least filed before you met her, then I wouldn’t think as much of it.
You are the reason why she wants the divorce now. If no one else came along, do you think she would have filed? Her ex is her back up plan and now that she found her knight in shining armor, she can let him go.
And probably why she asked you to not abandon her. Because she is letting go of her back up plan.
doodler - Thank you my friend. I had no idea of that part of your back story. It explains your strong feelings on this.
I appreciate you sharing that.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Relationships are not very cut and dried. When is a relationship ship over? When does a relationship start? It doesn’t take a “we” to end a relationship, it takes one.
A relationship is the feelings, the commitment to the other partner. Each person has their own internal relationship to the other. There is also the joint relationship, which is the more public and open commitment and connection that is shown between the two.
DnJ,
What you've eloquently written sounds nice and thoughtful, but the fact is that both of them presumably took the "till death do us part" vow. It's my sincere belief that if the marital vows are going to be broken, then it should be decided by husband and wife without the influence of a third party. Is that how it works in reality? Not really, but I think moral high road is to stay out of other people's marriages until they've dissolved their marriage.
Originally Posted by doodler
I could go on, but you get the picture. My belief is that the morally correct and prudent thing to do is to NOT date married people. It's not worth the guilt that you suffer and the pain that you cause others. It's not right. I think marriage as an institution should be respected. In my opinion that means taking the high road and allowing the spouses work through their problems or get a divorce. In my particular case, I'd have a lot less guilt.
What would've happened way back then, if I told the woman that became my wife that we'd have to wait until after her divorce before I would date her? I suspect she'd have found another knight in shining armor who would help the poor damsel in distress escape from the evil villain that was her husband.
As always, I could be wrong.
Doodler, thank you for your honesty. I don't think you're wrong. I think you're quite right, and statistics back you up on that. 50% of first marriages fail 60% of second marriages fail 70% of third marriages fail
As a species, we don't get better with practice; we seem to substitute one body for another, never stopping to change what we really can control - our selves, our perspectives, our shortcomings.
Look, I don't know the people in question, S and her soon to be exh # whatever, 3, is it?
I'm coming up on 5 years post BD and still not in a committed relationship, nor am I really dating, so take that into account. That's my disclaimer for this morsel I share:
I feel that after all I've been through, I don't want words. They mean nothing. I watch behavior. I don't pay attention to how someone treats me nearly as much as I pay attention to how they treat other people, how they handle various life events, most especially how they handle money and if they have kids, how they handle those relationships and how they handle their relationship with their ex. If she's doing this to her current husband, I would wonder how long it would take her to treat me that way. It's her behavior that's in question. She pursued you, Andrew, knowing she was married to another man. If it was really over and he wasn't her back up plan, why not move forward with the divorce once she realized she was really interested in pursuing something else with you. She could have told you very directly that she was interested, but wanted to be divorced before fully engaging with you.
From her husband's perspective, you are OM #?
Every relationship ends. Every. Single. One. Friendships, familial relations, romances.... In some cases, it's death. In others, it's a different kind of ending. How do you want to be treated at the end of this relationship? How is she likely to treat you based on her track record?
Just think about it.
But, that's just my view and probably one reason why I'm in no rush to be in a serious relationship.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
I also appreciate hearing doodler’s back story and position on this.
Doodler, sir I agree with you. The “till death do us part” vow is alive in me. That belief is so very slow to change; and in complete honesty, I’m not trying all that hard to change it. My own moral code, choices, and way I live my life is evident in my actions. I’ve still not dated and married women were never on the list. However, that is my code. Life, truth, reality, justice, faith, hope, love, etc... are not applied as black or white. Things aren’t as binary as I once saw them to be.
Yes, I do believe that it is better to not date a married woman. There are many reasons. But, that is not where Andrew is right now. I care about Andrew, like we all do, and this is his path. And I’ve smacked Andrew before with the OM 2x4. Besides Andrew is a smart guy, this is nothing he doesn’t realize.
Your perspective from being on both sides is powerful. I heard you, and listened. Thank you.
Andrew, I apologize if I am out of line or stirred things up too much.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Andrew, I apologize if I am out of line or stirred things up too much.
Nope - we're all good. Commentary with context is a very powerful argument.
I still have trust issues and this has all given me much food for thought. And as bttrfly wisely points out it's not the words that people say, it's how they treat others.
The human condition is a complex one. Not easily distilled down into aphorisms. Including the one I just made How people are motivated to act in the ways that they do, whether those actions are deliberate or not, is opaque to most. A 51 year old woman who has had struggles beyond what most have had to deal with regardless of how she ended up in those struggles is something beyond my experience.
It comes down to faith and trust. And as I mentioned, I have work to do in those areas.
There is much that I don't know. And by extension, less that has been shared here by me. Thank you all for your friendship and concern.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
S25 got a job!!!!! - Insert Dad and son happy dance emoticon here.
It's at the local ice cream factory. Warehouse work. A good solid family owned company that has transitioned to the next generation. They are very active in the local community and are nice people from what I gather. He's keen on it and was positive after the interview. He liked the people and the job sounded decent to him. He really likes the fact that there's a good benefits package including a very generous pension plan. It's Monday-Friday afternoon shift with occasional weekends during peak season.
I've talked to him for years about the difficulty that companies like mine have getting young people who are willing to look at warehouse work as a career so I think he went in with that attitude rather than looking at it as a temporary stop-gap.
One thing that I like - beyond the amazing bit that he's got a full time job is that with his schedule there won't be any conflicting traffic in the kitchen, bathroom or driveway. It's an about 45 minute commute in good weather. Certainly nothing much from my point of view, but he will undoubtedly plan on moving. It is close enough though that him coming to Supper regularly won't be an issue. Given that there is a rather large workforce in this town for the factory there is undoubtedly rental accommodation there although vacancy rates are really low in this whole region especially for modestly priced rentals. I expect him to stay here for at least a couple of months to build up a nest-egg and until he passes his probation period. It's something we've talked about before and it makes a lot of sense. There is no rush. It's not as if I have any plans to sub-let his bedroom after-all
I'm confident that he'll do well there. While the last couple of years with him here have been difficult as I've whined and complained about a lot on this forum, I'm glad that he's now in a place to make his own way in the world.
Getting back to the cookbook theme, the last of the Christmas left-overs are now gone. I mixed the leftover potatoes, turnip and some eggs and made a variation of potato pancakes. They turned out rather nice. From a country that invented poutine, this shouldn't surprise anyone.
Time to finish my tea, make the bed, shower and throw another load of laundry in. Then off for errands. I'm meeting up with S at some point to do joint errands but it's uncertain where or when. The parent of one of her childhood friends recently passed and I believe we are going to the visitation in her home town tomorrow. We may end up popping in for me to meet her Dad as well. Don't know.
Hasta Luego
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Congratulations to your son on getting a job. It's going to take him a while to settle in and see what he is paid. Don't be too hasty in thinking that he's moving out any time soon. It may be a while because you generally have to have a first month's rent as well as the current month's rent.
Enjoy your day.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Congrats to S25! I’m sure that is a great feeling for him and a big step to him finally enjoying full independence with the loving support of his dad. I agree with job, though, that you shouldn’t start redoing his room just yet, as I would bet he won’t be looking to move until summer, at the earliest. Going back to some previous posts, that may coincide with S and crew moving in. Lol
I didn’t comment on any of that because I’ve been a bit preoccupied this week with getting married. I think you got some good advice and I’m sure you’ll make wise decisions. It sounds like lots of things are really going your way at the moment. Good for you! Enjoy your time with S.
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
That is excellent news about S25. Happy dance indeed!
Full time employment and a steady pay check is a game changer for people. It’s wonderful when our kids can stand on their own and make their way in the world. The transition from now to then will take a bit of time, and like you said there is no rush.
The 45 minute commute is no big deal; from a fellow commuter. However, to the uninitiated, its a big deal. All my kids didn’t like their commutes and was one of the reasons for them moving out. Hey, they need reasons, and that particular one kept me out of the limelight.
I finished all my Christmas leftovers for last night’s supper. it was mostly turkey, not sure how good a pancake that would have made. Lol.
Enjoy the day.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
How people are motivated to act in the ways that they do, whether those actions are deliberate or not, is opaque to most. A 51 year old woman who has had struggles beyond what most have had to deal with regardless of how she ended up in those struggles is something beyond my experience.
