You have a complicated dynamic going on. You are making 180s by showing you are there to support your H. At the same time, you are on guard about being overly appeasing and making the whole process easy for him (sometimes called "playing family").
I'm going to put a Zen twist on this. Maybe it has nothing to do with whether or not you invite him for Thanksgiving, and everything to do with your own mindset.
Can you be that soft place to land, while also letting go of all expectations for what it will mean? What if he joins you at Thanksgiving, and then continues pushing for D as if nothing happened? How will you handle that emotionally? What if he keeps leaning on you for emotional support month after month, and then pushes the D through anyways?
I don't know if this makes any sense. We all come here asking for advice how to handle situations X, Y, Z. The longer I've been doing DB, the more I think that the actual decisions we make each day don't matter all that much. Sometimes they do, often they do not. It's all about mindset. Because that will shine through, that will drive your decision-making, your tone of voice, the facial expressions you make during a difficult conversation, how you phrase a text message, everything.
All of this said, I have no idea what you should do, and I'm sorry I can't be more helpful. Give him a soft landing? Or let him experience what he will lose with a D? That's the thing. We have zero control over other people, zero control over how they will react. We are all in our own Twilight Zone situations that are so bizarre it is impossible to predict how people will behave. Accept it, embrace it.
Whatever you decide to do, I hope you can find your center and make a decision that you trust to your core.
Hope, my suggestion is discuss it with your family to make sure they're OK with it, then invite him, if he accepts then keep him at arm's length the whole time. Treat him like a friend, not a lover. IE, make him feel warm and welcome like any friend you might bring along, but don't play "couple for the day". Have no expectations! Dress to kill and be charming to everyone, show him what he's missing.
Thanks to both of you! I appreciate any and all thoughts.
U-
I get what you mean for sure. At this point, I’m grappling less with concerns about making it too easy on H, and more with what is the best way to handle these things to help tip the scales toward recon. Thankfully, I’ve come to a point where I’m at peace with my choices in terms of “letting him off easy” or “playing family”. If he still pushes the D through, those will not be the things I struggle with. My concern lies more in knowing that he is at such a crucial point in his decision making process. He told me all of that directly. Whereas before that convo I wasn’t clear on where he stood, so all my decisions around this stuff felt like shots in the dark, now it feels like there’s a target in sight, and there may be more of a chance that my choices point him towards or away from it, even slightly. Of course, I could be completely wrong, but I’m working with what I’ve got.
AS— This is good advice, and I plan to do just that. My family still loves him and are happy to have him. I’m going to make sure to keep the line; I am happy to have him there, but we won’t be pretending to be a couple. My daughter will be really happy to have us all together, and that makes me really happy.
Thanksgiving turned out very nicely, all things considered. My parents came, so with myself, D4 and H it was a small gathering. I hosted at my place, which was nice for me. H was texting the night before and morning of to see what he needed to bring which I appreciated. His messages had a funny vibe to them (I know text is sooooo hard to decipher anyway, but relative to his usual text tone, it was odd). My best friend and her daughter came over in the early morning to visit. She happens to have a long career in mental health. She commented that she thought he sounded depressed. I’ve thought that many times the last few weeks.
When he arrived he brought the groceries, as well as a bouquet of my favorite flowers. He hugged me, albeit a bit awkwardly. I was touched, and thanked him sincerely.
I definitely felt he was a bit flat affect and down seeming. One thing that was good perspective for me was that I took it personally at first, assuming he was being guarded toward me. But when my parents arrived (they have always loved and embraced him and vice versa) he had the same demeanor. I realized it had nothing to do with me at all, and then was able to be more empathetic toward him. He really was trying, but he wasn’t his usual gregarious self.
Anyway we all spent the day talking and cooking and playing with D4, and it was very pleasant. H cleaned up and washed dishes after my parents left, and we put D4 to bed. H was tired and I could tell he felt badly in some way. He kept apologizing for not cleaning enough as he was getting ready to go. For my part, I was feeling pretty sad at that point. Watching him walk out the door and being alone for the evening after a nice thanksgiving hit me hard. I did my best to keep it in, but I am notorious for showing my feelings in my face no matter how hard I try not to. He probably Picked up on that and felt...whatever he felt. I won’t pretend to know. He left and I cried and then watched a movie to cheer up. I’m trying to appreciate it as one more holiday for D4 where we are all together.
How are you? I am glad to see you are getting along okay. This all takes so long, doesn't it. Soooooo looonnnnggg. But there will be an end in sight, that I know. ... I understand that feeling of having good interactions and then watching them walk out the door. And the tears that follow. What you are describing is one of the reasons I could not have family time of friendship with H when we were separated. It hurt too much.
Hugs, Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
I realized it had nothing to do with me at all, and then was able to be more empathetic toward him.
Hope - Glad you were able to enjoy Thanksgiving as best as you could given the circumstances. I really enjoyed the above part of your post, it inspires me to let go of wondering what is going on in my WAS's head.
Hi Blu! It’s nice to hear from you. I’m doing ok, all things considered. It’s interesting for me to realize that this is has been going for so long (sooooooo loooooooonnnnngggggg) that I’m just used to the feelings that come with each aspect. Most of the time now, when H walks out the door, I’m ok. But it’s these special days, holidays etc. that are still rough. Ugh. And now I have my birthday this week to contend with. H texted to offer to stay with D4 if I want to go out. It’s nice but obviously not what I’d want from him. Now I just need to come up with some plans...
Thanks unchien, I’m glad I could be of help or inspiration of any kind. I’m following your situation closely
Shortly after my last post it was my birthday. I wasn’t feeling motivated to make plans, a few friends proposed a few ideas but all I really wanted was to be with D4. It fell on what is usually H’s time with her though, so I was prepared for it to go either way. H ended up texting me Happy birthday and asking again if I wanted him to keep D4 late so I could go out. I told him honestly that I wasn’t sure and that all I was really in the mood for was to be with D4. He suggested that he could bring her over and that he’d bring takeout and make birthday cake with D4. We had wine and laughed and had a really nice evening all together. It felt a lot like old times and H hugged me several times.
Things carried on as normal, I noticed that H has softened in a lot of ways, and also that he is still careful with words and keeping a line between us. I also noticed that lately when he referred to his plans he tells me where he is going and with whom, whereas before it wes always vague and he shared no info.
D4 and I got a Christmas tree and decorated the house on our own for the first time. I had a proud moment when D4 doubter my ability to carry the tree up the stairs myself—“FYI mama, I think we’re gonna need daddy to help us” (she’s a cheeky one). I told her I’m pretty strong and that I believed in myself, and she was really impressed when I succeeded. It was a good moment. I waited as long as possible to bring up Christmas arrangements with H, as I wanted to let him be the one to bring it up (knowing that was highly unlikely). Last week I finally brought it up and asked him what his plans were. He had none. I asked him what his thoughts were about arrangements with D4. He fumbled around a bit And asked what my plans were. I told him and he asked a free follow up questions and then paused. I asked him if he’d like to join us and he said yes. I was struck by how automatically he just wanted to join in with my family plans. I was happy about it, but also cycled through some resentment around it.
Christmas Eve fell on H’s night with D4. He was planning to pick her up from my house after work, and I asked if he would mind bringing her back early, as we have some Christmas Eve traditions I wanted to do with her. I was pleasantly surprised when he he said of course, no problem. That morning he texted to ask what time I wanted her home, and if I wanted to have dinner with her. I said of course I’d love that, but made it clear I didn’t expect it. He proposed that he chip in some money for groceries if I wanted to cook a special Christmas Eve dinner (one of my traditions, as I love to cook). So we ended up having a nice festive Christmas Eve dinner, after which H cleaned up and we put D4 to bed. He was back first thing Christmas morning as planned. D4 was so excited and so sweet and cute and I soaked it up. H made breakfast and we all headed to my parents house and then out to a very nice dinner. Afterward when we were putting D4 to bed, she said “I love you guys so much and I just can’t choose who I want to put me to bed!” I assured her she doesn’t have to choose and she pulled us both in for a big group hug and gave us both lots of kisses. H had his arms around both of us, and I noticed there was no awkward arm hovering or patting. Just a real embrace. He saw me tearing up afterward and commented how sweet D4 is. He thanked me for a nice day and gave me a hug before he left.
Things feel so much like they are moving forward and softening and moving in a positive direction in so many ways. And, at the same time, it feels like they are standing still in the biggest ways. The way he refers to his house so casually stings every single time. There is no talk of anything actually changing between us. Are these slow changes for the better? I don’t know. It sure feels that way. But I remain confused, and I was very sad again when he left last night. We had such a nice day as a family and I know he felt it too. I just don’t know what it means for him.
Next there is NYE. I have zero expectations around it, and I know it’s at least unlikely to be as awful as it was last year. It feels like there’s a lot on the line and that the stakes are high, and that there isn’t much I can do but continue to wait and see...?
I am so glad you still update :-) ... Are these slow changes for the better? ... I'm thinking that is the million dollar question for you. I wish I had the answer. I don't know. I'm thinking maybe he doesn't know either.... I think we all would hope that in time that leads to you both growing closer again and then Ring. I just don't see it happen that way here much.
It's hard for me to remove my own bias and understand what he's doing because it's different from my own sitch. I axed off the family time with my H because I knew he was running off to OW and felt it was cake eating. I also felt as long as I was solidly plan B, then he wouldn't turn things around. In my sitch, I knew H had to lose me to want me again. I tend to think they all need to feel some loss, and negative consequences of their actions, in order to want the M back. They value it after they learn to miss it. I think it's a weirdly human, but common, phenomena that happens in a heartbreak. We, the LBS feel it because we have a broken heart, but their experience is different and they don't want what they know thy can have. Again, that's my own bias and I could be wrong. Perhaps if there is no OW (or things already failed with her) it's okay to keep things on more friendly terms?
It sounds like D4 enjoys the family time. Do you think you could enjoy it without any expectations? For example, hypothetically speaking, if you knew the family time would not lead to Ring, would you still engage in it? Or, if you knew he was still with OW (and planning his future with her), would you still engage in it? .... I'm not suggesting you do or don't, that would be your choice. I am suggesting tho that if the family time is raising your expectations, then I worry you are creating more potential for hurt.
A couple questions. How do you think he would react if you started dating someone else and lost interest in him? Or, what do you think he would do if you did a 180 and detached?
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
