IHC, you got this man! Remember, life is 10% what happens to us, and 90% our attitude and how we react to it! You've been here a long time and you know all of this stuff as well as any of us.
YOU GOT THIS.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
You've got a lot on your plate mate. It's like you read my mind too when you discussed the ebb and flow of your feeling and thoughts. You miss the what was, and what would've been. You just gotta keep DB'ing and keep your strength through the struggle.
How often do you see S2? How are his milestones going?
Man, that wood fired turkey sounds appetizing! Save a little piece of skin and drumstick for me won't you haha!
Cheers, DS
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Wow I haven't been on my own sich in over a month.
I've honestly been avoiding it as I didn't want to come here to complain.
So here is what has happened so far on XW side of the street since then. I'm only stating this to point out inconsistencies in her behaviors. Thanksgiving day. XW dropped S2 off at my apartment. Expected me to say hi to her grandmother in the vehicle which I did. I asked her if she wanted to pop in and say hi. She didn't want to come in for a sec to say hi to my family, and used getting her grandmother home as an excuse...(Ok. N.P.) Her SOP response for anything extra curricular on her time is "I have an appointment." Doesn't volunteer anything. Been that way since April. (Nothing changed there.) Week after Thanksgiving I get the "I have an appointment, I have an appointment bit." She shows up one weeknight to pickup S2 in a brand new SUV. I expected this because my cousin told me she was shopping for new car. but was a little perturbed given how we are both losing income for the last 4 months due to S2 being sick and Im stretching food, and just making rent. I say nothing. I don't event comment on the new car. I invite her in to write her a check for monies I owed her on Auto Ins. She looks over my place, is glad for me. Admits is a little jealous of new place. Admits she also cannot afford new car payment after taking over house and mortgage. (I say nothing.) Write her the check, and she leaves with S2.
She has a bad habit of always asking me to swap dates a lot with S2 to revolve around her needs and social schedule. Always asking me to sacrifice my personal time. Unless it's warranted, information revealed why, and for legitimate reasons. I typically refuse "Sorry I can't. Have plans." We reschedule Santa photos due to S2 being sick early Dec. She attempts to get me to reschedule to her convenience on my weekend off. I refuse. "Sorry I have plans." (Pretty much her default responses since April.) I actually did have plans that night. I've asked her specifically to give me space and she has for the most part. But somewhere in the back of her mind she's still trying to play happy joint family, and invite me to certain things, exclude me from others, and only invites me for the sake of S2. (So I politely refuse most of them unless important milestones. Haloween, Santa, etc. No friend zone for me thanks.)
She asked me twice prior if I would like to have dinner with her after Santa photos. Asks me again the day of pictures. I politely decline. "Thanks but I already ate." We reschedule for mid week. Meet them at the mall. I get there early. She walks in behind me, and I don't realize it. I go looking at stuff in AX to kill time. She calls. I don't answer. I walk out of store. Meetup. Waiting for Santa she tries to make small talk with me about how malls aren't crowded anymore around Christmas time. I reply. "Maybe Amazon has something to do with it?" S2 runs into Victoria Secrets. Starts whining because I picked him up. I say to him "I'm sorry I know. We can try Fredricks of Hollywood next time." Lol..XW says "Oh Jeez" I notice somethings XW will find funny with me, and at other times she is like whatever. Once in a while we'll share a joke or laugh together, but otherwise we don't talk. I've stopped answering all of her calls and take 4-6 hours on non emergency texts when regarding S2.
I've asked my for Christmas belongings, lights, etc. From marital home. She was nice enough to pack them up for me. I notice she keeps trying to give me objects from the relationship like joint themed Christmas sweaters. I politely decline. I get the "No? Ok!" That and once in a while wants to do something joint with S2 every couple of months, otherwise does her own thing with and without him without any information volunteered my way. I reject them too (Except Haloween and pumpkin picking right before I moved out of marital home.) Recently she tried giving me a joint themed Christmas sweater for both of us. Asked me if I wanted it. Said "Nah...Thanks I have a few new ones of my own I ordered."
Recently she asked me to watch S2 Sun. Jan 19th into Jan 20th overnight, go into work late and drop S2 off at MIL's. She doesn't state why in her email. (But I know why. GF getting married/bachelorette weekend/hotel reservations etc..) I simply reply back "Sorry I can't" Had suspicion going back to February when XW first started getting involved with bridal party is when rings came off and she starting "taking better care" of her feminine hygiene if you catch my drift. Nails, makeup, perfume, different clothing, weight loss surgeries, etc. Coukd be my paranoia from past but the red flags were there.
We agreed in text to start up mediaion again in Jan monies depending. I initiated that text. I've noticed some things around the martial home that don't mean anything as far as sich changing, that kind of mean nothing, but worth mentioning. In her new office/workout room. (Old MBR) she put up painting I gave to her on our wedding day of two Adiriondack chairs at the beach, and another mural about love that I gave to her on vday a couple of years ago. I also noticed the ornaments on her tree we received are on it gifted from relatives from wedding, and an ornament from 2009 celebrating our marriage from her Mom. (Probably nothing probably just her being practical.)
Im debating on going to her and her Mom's church on Christmas Eve with S2. MIL invited me. My family bailed om me for Christmas Eve after I already decorated, bought the food and everything.. Really disappointed in them. Some reasons are valid, and some are pi$$ poor pride and excuses. But its teaching me not to remain attached to people or outcomes. MIL left me a present at the marital home. I haven't opened it yet. XW invited me over for Christmas morning brunch, but again I politely declined and told her I have plans. Vets. Should I go to church Christmas Eve with them? Any opinions welcomed.
Im sure everyone here is going to tell me to do what I am comfortable with without attachment or expectations. I know everyone here says "If you are confused by their intentions, then its breadcrumbing, if they want to reconcile YOU WILL KNOW!' The reason why I always ask the vets here every time a situation like this comes up is because I want good discernment with this without being all removed and hard hearted. It still bewilderes me as to why XW continues to do these things when I have specifically asked her not to since April and have made my point very clear about such. No marriage. No family activity except special occasions. You want separated? Divorce? We do things separate... I just don't understand why someone doesn't get the message even with my silence and refusal. IMO its selfish of her to want to be friends and play family, and have me around to her benefit at times without having to be married to me. But other people like my cousin, she talks to XW too. She thinks it's her way of using S2 to reconnect with me. My cousin speaks with XW too. Its really hard for me to determine if I am being stubborn at times or am I gauging the current situation correctly based on her actions in the other direction away from the M. I've kind if learned my lesson with that 6 times over. Spending time with both of them together changes nothing. If anything it just reinforces her fantasy that I will always be there. But what if I'm wrong and my cousin is right. I just don't want to be vulnerable and keep opening up wounds over and over again, but I'm sure there is someone out there (Like XW and her family that will never see it from my POV.) Am I being stubborn? I figure it this way, nothing came out of it the last several times, so why bother? This isn't like the movies Fireproof. Im perfectly fine in my space. Somewhat enjoy being apart in these conditions, and honestly wouldn't mind taking D off the table, but there's no way in hell Ill move back into the M home without her attempting to carefully think about how much she's hurt me through all of this, and attempt to earn my trust back after laying it all on me seven times over since last year. If she never wakes up, In fine with D too. I won't pursue anymore I refuse to without a complete rock bottom sincere apology on her part after her opinions had to be heard and her feelings validated, but mine dismissed. I've made friends with silence. Its good and introspective for me.
I really think that by the time the process is over the WS is so detached that they don’t mind being friends with the LBs especially if it benefits the children.
To me a divorce is an action and I have yet to see anyone change there mind in the little time you’ve been on your own. Tread lightly my friend.
Will do. LH19. I intend to. I really need to read your sich over in the Surviving The Big D. Board.
This area with doing joint shared things and these types of invites all through my sich have been extremely confusing to me because of different mindsets... I have swung from one polar opposite to another. Rejecting and politely declining her at one turn, only to accept on choice occasion. Been fairly consistent in maintaining my position on it. But the reason for the confusion on my part is seven fold. Its because our mindsets are completely different when it comes to Ex's. Because of our families and experiences. XW and her family insisted on inviting my brothers XW to our wedding in 2009 so my nieces (who were small and bratty at the time) could be handled by their Mom. No matter how much I insisted to XW and her family that brother's XW and my brother had a lot of extreme animosity towards each other and families as a result of a nasty divorce as well. My STBXW and her family insisted on inviting brothers XW under the premise of "Can't they just get along for the sake of the children?" Although good intentions. But lack of respect for myself, my brother, mine and my family's wishes.
It became a comtention point between us then and our wedding where I was considering calling the wedding off because I was getting pulled in both directions by both families to do the right thing. But I knew that my father being the instigator that he was, and Ex SIL being the crazy person that she was, fireworks and drama would have definitely happened and I wasn't about to deal with that kind of stress, embarrassment, drama, or situation at my wedding. I still had to stay om my toes with my Father with anxiety that day with him instigating remarks to my oldest brother's wife who is the Sister of my other brothers ex.
So I guess it doesn't surprise me now that I think about it that my STBXW operates from this mindset. That everyone can still get along, attend family functions, introduce new people in dating in the future, and everyone should just be ok with it. "For the kids sake." My STBXW has a bad habit of befriending my brothers Ex's and spending PT with them.. Not that any of us have a problem with it, but it just goes to show how little consideration, respect and POV is given to the other side's wishes and good reasons for giving them. I understand it and where they are coming from. But STBXW always held resentment towards me for not having ExSIL invited to wedding, and as me holding power over her in that sich. She resented me in a sense because she had to "babysit" my unruly nieces the flower girls on "her wedding day." Because their Mom wasn't invited. But She made sure to invite EXSIL. To wedding after party. Which I didn't have a problem with and compromised on. She could have just as easily removed my nieces from the wedding however and that would have been fine by me. Since STBXW invited them as flower girls in the first place. Ironicly I am going to nieces house Christmas day without S2 to attend a party. She has a S1 right behind my S2. My Ex SIL and Brother will be there. My EXSIL is dying of Cancer. My brother and her sonewhat made amends for the sake of the grandkids for the first time in 20 years. So that is a miracle unto itself.
But anyway its not my principles or mindset and doesn't fit into my reality given how I came up in my family. An ex is an ex for a reason. You don't have to hate them. Forgive them yes. Understand they are human and they hurt too. Be polite friendly and cordial. Work together as co parents for the kids.
But the other reasons why this area is so confusing to me is several. Everyone here advocates NC, time and space and LRT for one, and I totally understand why. It diffuses, it heals, it develops self autonomy, removes co dependency, and gives room to think about self reflection and previous actions. I've had a bit of time this past month and year to reflect on all the unhealthy things we both brought to the M. Another reason why these situations confuse me so much is I have been specific, vocal and candid, and fairly consistent in my boundaries and rules with this. But I keep getting invited as if "I will see it they're way one day for the benefit of S2." Another reason why it is confusing is my cousin who talks to STBXW has hope for us, and puts it in my head a lot that maybe STBXW is trying to reach out to me in a sense, and I am rejecting her, even still being aware of the actions taken against me the whole step of the way over the last year. Cousin also reminds me that STBXW is going through a lot with MIL getting over Cancer for the second time this last year, and FIL having progressive dementia. My STBXW reasons for leaving the M are seven fold. Mild MLC. Purpose in life, fear of dying, authenticity, childhood trauma, self worth issues, value, wanting to experience a new life with desires purpose in self, hobbies, travels, and relationships. I understand that and it is in a way selfish of me to hold on, so I let go. I can,be compassionate at times in that sense, and realize I have to allow a person to be who they are and want to be. Who an I how to tell a person how to live, how to feel, what to believe, and what is right for them? We both have a lot of work to do on ourselves and she is 10 steps ahead of me. If I had an ideal choice in my situation. I would continue to live apart. Us work on ourselves, settle the property stuff and sale, but take divorce off the table. (I know its only a piece of paper and contract.)
When I get spiritual, biblical or talk to cousin, it gives me hope. But STBXW's actions prove me otherwise. So I distance myself. Its difficult for me to trust myself in this area with discernment because the vets know one thing from experience, I get validated in that from what I experience as a result of such by STBXW's actions. Cousin thinks Im making a mistake in distancing my self NC but won't tell me why. (Maybe she knows more to the circumstance because she talks to STBXW?) I clearly know one event can't turn everything around and that it takes time, years, and patience and we are going to mediation next month, and nothing is legally binding unless we officially divorce. Again either way Reconciled or Divorce. I will be fine, it might even be a blessing. I get to start life over anew and reinvent myself and my habits and transform. I can be good willed. I just don't want to be hard nosed and prideful about NC because what if cousin is right? I don't see how though. I haven't seen any words or actions moving back torwards R with explicit intent, just ambiguities and ambivalence. I don't want to "read the tea leaves" by the Christmas stuff and murals on the walls in the marital home as a sign of anything. I guess STBXW is just being her nice inviting self. Funny how they do that when you are acused of being emotionally and verbally abusive, that you are scary, and they don't trust you and aren't romantically attracted to you anymore. I can remain unattached. I just could use some reassurance that silence, distance and space is the right thing to do given what I've seen lately. (Im only two months physically, but one year verbally and emotionally separated so it must be.)
I’m gonna give it to you straight. Move on. Your cousin is just trying to make you feel better. I was told by my friends wife that on the girls vacation this year all four girls said to my ex that her and I were going to get back together. She didn’t refute it. All it did was get me stuck. Bare minimum two years to turn around. Don’t make the mistake I did and move on. If the decision ever comes that you will have a choice to make.
I think with the piece of paper - the D. It's easier to have a real talk with her about how you won't be doing things as a family because you aren't a family. Your family is now you and your S.
You say that she doesn't get the message. Maybe you aren't communicating the message as much as you think.
Personally, I'd stop with "I have plans," I'd just say "we talked about this." I think you need to stop saying that the only reason you aren't doing things as a family is because other things get in the way.
The D also gives the freedom to have a frank talk with the XW. I think people come here and they get the avoid R talks message beaten into their brains and they see every talk that's not small talk as an R talk.
LH19 Bare minimum of two years if not at all.. Yeah I figured that if that. Move on. Absolutely. No point in slamming my d!ck in the door for a 6th or 7th time. Thanks for the reassurance and appealing to my logical side ;-) Its much better to live life on my own terms, not having to appeal to or pine for anyone. Much more mentally relieving to cross "that bridge when I get to it if I ever get to it." People make choices and take actions in life. Some have positive consequences, some negative. I can live with that. I always flew by the seat of my pants in life anyway for the most part. But now I have some serious planning of what my life will look like this next year and the next 30.
I think with the piece of paper - the D. It's easier to have a real talk with her about how you won't be doing things as a family because you aren't a family. Your family is now you and your S.
You say that she doesn't get the message. Maybe you aren't communicating the message as much as you think.
Personally, I'd stop with "I have plans," I'd just say "we talked about this." I think you need to stop saying that the only reason you aren't doing things as a family is because other things get in the way.
The D also gives the freedom to have a frank talk with the XW. I think people come here and they get the avoid R talks message beaten into their brains and they see every talk that's not small talk as an R talk.
Mario. I've verbally and literally set my boundaries with this several times over since March. Here is a message excerpt from Oct to XW. She still takes it as "giving me my space" but still insists inviting me to family events after I've made my self clear on the mattof aer.
XW: Still not sure... would you consider coming up with him tomorrow for the day if he stays home tonight. IH: Sorry. I don't play family unless I actually belong to one. XW: You can take him tonight, or leave him with me for the weekend. Please let me know so I can make /cancel plans.
Another occasion XW:We dont have to swap, you can still have friday. We will both see him tomorrow for santa pics. Id just ask that you video call tonight so jack can see you. IH: I don't feel that's necessary. Unless he is looking for me I will see him tomorrow and Weds. XW:Ok, i just thought you might wanna say hi XW: We will see you tomorrow. IH: I need space. Not from him. Do you understand? XW: Yes.
Funny I deleted all text messages of XW from year prior back in Sept. Im reading over the texts in exchange beteeen us over stuff. S2 health. schedules and timetables and inconveniences and what not as far as respecting boundaries in time and space and schedules. Even though all my points are completely valid in my text messages I realize how much of a Maniac I sound like always trying to make my point. Guess that's why I went silent.
