Don't get me wrong, I am obviously still in love with her and attached and all of that super fun stuff. BUT, the thought has crossed my mind that I don't know if I / we could ever move past all of the trauma. Furthermore, would I want to try again with someone that could so easily walk away?
I absolutely relate to this
I tell myself that I will keep the door open
BUT
she has to see me as someone of high value she has to be willing to fight for me she has to see being me as more valuable than being alone, or being with somebody else
(stolen from a post in May by a wise vet)
In the meantime, keep walking that path. Living with all this ambiguity and uncertainty is not easy.
Keep up the good work. I think letting those thoughts sit with you is really helpful, even though it isn't pleasant. It starts to move you from thinking what you want is HER into what you want for YOU.
How has the GALing been going? How are your dogs? Are you excited to spend Christmas with your family, surrounded by people that love you?
Hope you're feeling better too!
xo May
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
This is really good. Keep doing this, Kristin - very important.
Originally Posted by KristinG
I had a good friend tell me that "maybe ww and I were just meant to be friends in the end". She told me this several months ago and at the time I was hurt and angry at the statement. It has stuck with me, and lately, I have pondered the same.
I caution everyone the same when it comes to friends, even best friends. They try to empathize with your situation and are trying to make you feel better - which is awesome. But it is impossible for anyone to predict what will happen in the future, and it is not possible for anyone other than you to see from your perspective. Only you know your situation completely.
I have had several esoteric and metaphysical discussions with Unchien about meditation and thoughts during our time here at DB. You may have read a few of them. Basically the idea is that a "thought" is just that - a thought. It doesn't predetermine anything, and it doesn't mean anything. It only starts to mean something if you choose to believe it is true - and it is at that point it becomes a choice, for you to decide to go in the direction the thought leads you, or not.
I'm not the best at explaining it - I'm still learning this very different way of viewing things myself. There's a book called "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. Eye opening read - a great companion read to DB and DR. Check it out if you get the chance - it has helped me tons.
Quote
Don't get me wrong, I am obviously still in love with her and attached and all of that super fun stuff. BUT, the thought has crossed my mind that I don't know if I / we could ever move past all of the trauma. Furthermore, would I want to try again with someone that could so easily walk away? These musings don't hurt as much to think about anymore and I'm planning to spend some time in self reflection letting them marinate.
It is good to think about things critically. I think it's important not to let these thoughts consume you, though.
In the future, if WW ends it with OP, is truly remorseful for what she has done, commits to NC with OP, and commits solely to you and only you, then and only then, those are discussions that can be had - if you choose to have a new R.
In the meantime, focus on you and what you want.
Like Steve85 told me the other day - I'm paraphrasing here - Any house can be rebuilt if there's a strong enough foundation.
Hi KG, I just read through your thread a lightning speed.
So here are my thoughts, queer to queer. You may hate me. I want you to be on the "other side" of this pain and look in the mirror and feel like a bad@$$ lezzie who is loving her life, and did the HARD WORK to get there. Right now I feel like you are picking and choosing the path to your healing.
1) Blu. Everything BluWave said is exactly right. Read and reread what she has written to you multiple times. It is the most helpful advice if you try your hardest to really hear her. Do not skim these posts.
2) About being "the Lighthouse". Here's the thing - a Lighthouse is for a ship looking to come home. Your W has zero intention of coming home. Not even one iota. She says the words but has not made one single authentic step in the last year. She is not coming back in the near future.
I understand your desire to be the lighthouse and you can! But you seem to think that's by making things easy for W to come home. No. Your goal isn't to "pave the way home", it's to not put any more [censored] in the road.
No need to be cruel or mean. But you can and should start ignoring W and going dim (you don't have to be NC, but you do need to stop hanging out and talking and using pet names and saying ILY. Seriously, stop that. And stop talking about your relationship. You don't have one.).
What does it mean to add stuff to the road? Well, for example, going out and hooking up with someone else out of spite would be adding stuff to the road. But you taking a MAJOR step back is not going to stop her if she had any interest in returning. All you need to be is cordial.
3) Ahhh, lezzie culture. You mentioned in a November post about not being her friend during this. I know you're a bit younger than me, and I tend to be more familiar with an older lesbian crowd, so the dynamics are a tad different and changing. BUT.
Lesbians are friends with their exes. It's a joked about dynamic. We all know that in a party of lesbians most have some weird degree of separation with sleeping with one another. And sometimes it's legit, but honestly I think in some ways this is the most BS part of our culture.
For anyone reading not familiar with queer culture: To be fair,, this dynamic was built out of protection. For folks who had lost so much family due to being themselves, a new family of similar people was born. Hence the incredibly popular idea that lesbians are all friends after breaking up.
So it is my advice to NOT PLAY in to this storyline.
4) I'd like to know more about your caretaker dynamic with W. She seems to be fulfilled in part by the fact that she is caretaker for OP. I am not suggesting you weaken yourself to change your dynamic with W. But I have some thoughts and I'd like to hear more about how you two would have interacted when your R was on solid ground.
How are you feeling? The flu has been awful this year. I hope you are recovered. It can be hard to GAL when you are feeling crummy. I have been thinking maybe I should replace saying GAL with the term "self care," because it feels more encompassing. GAL sort of suggests we need to go out, do an activity and spend money or energy. This BD stuff can be quite taxing and sometimes we don't have much to spend. "Self care" can include GAL, but it can also include other mediums that we might need to heal and ultimately detach. For me that can be a long walk, a bath, cooking a new recipe, starting a new series or book, or simply throwing a ball with my kids.
I find it interesting that she tells you she is uncomfortable around your family and says "when we are back together." It reads to me as if she is keeping you as plan B. Shame on her. That is not very thoughtful of your feelings. Because if she actually planned on being with you, she would be with you now. Perhaps that is just more delusional wayward speak! I recall my H saying some very dumb things like this when he was in his fog too. Like May's WH, my H thought we could be friends and still have family time, and then he could go off to OW. I had to ax that family time right off because I felt like I was being used.
I was writing to May yesterday and thinking about the differences in dealing with a wayward spouse when there are kids involved vs when there are not. I think the stakes are higher and can be more complicated when there are kids. Both parents naturally want to do right by the kids. It also logistically is much harder to drop the rope or go dark. because you have to share custody and discuss things frequently. On the flip side, when there are not kids involved, it is also could be easier for them to move right along without us and not feel the loss as much.
I am glad you and Yail have linked up.
I hope the holidays are treating you well.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
I had a good friend tell me that "maybe ww and I were just meant to be friends in the end". She told me this several months ago and at the time I was hurt and angry at the statement. It has stuck with me, and lately, I have pondered the same. Don't get me wrong, I am obviously still in love with her and attached and all of that super fun stuff. BUT, the thought has crossed my mind that I don't know if I / we could ever move past all of the trauma. Furthermore, would I want to try again with someone that could so easily walk away?
It sounds like the advice you gave me applies almost equally to you, "But DUDEtte! She has been treating you like utter garbage. You're awesome, and bold, and creative! Your heart is longing for a committed, stable, and exciting relationship. She is literally screaming at you that she doesn't want any of those things."
Your situation is more complicated since you've been together 7 years. I award you +3 awesomeness points for trying so hard to right the ship despite her active affair! You're right, piecing/reconciling is not easy. It felt like starting anew--except there was tons of baggage, and I was my new self (validating instead of yelling or walking away, organized home, self compassion), and she was her old self (anger, yelling, hanging up).
In retrospect, I don't think I'll try to reconcile again unless the other party is STRONGLY pushing for it (Gee, what DB suggests!) instead of "Sorta" pushing for it.. or there are kiddos involved. It's funny. Each DB lesson is well-written here, and yet they only "click" when personal experience reinforces them, lol!
Friends, seriously thank you so much for all your responses. I want to get back to each of you.
Originally Posted by IronWill
Basically the idea is that a "thought" is just that - a thought. It doesn't predetermine anything, and it doesn't mean anything. It only starts to mean something if you choose to believe it is true - and it is at that point it becomes a choice, for you to decide to go in the direction the thought leads you, or not.
So well put IW. I watched a YouTube short once about this concept. It was essentially a cartoon showing this dynamic as a bicycle. Your emotions and thoughts are the wheels, always in motion. Choice is the handlebar, directing which direction you travel. This in turn creates new emotions, thoughts, and thus choice. It is up to us to shape our own destination as to where it will lead.
Originally Posted by Yail
I understand your desire to be the lighthouse and you can! But you seem to think that's by making things easy for W to come home. No. Your goal isn't to "pave the way home", it's to not put any more [censored] in the road.
I hadn't thought about it in those exact terms, thanks! To answer some of your questions, I consider myself a lesbian. I am fine with queer as well. You will most likely laugh at this because I jokingly refer to myself as a chapstick lesbian. I am definitely more femme, but I don't do heels and lipstick. I always dress nicely, always wear makeup, and also have a little hipster/rocker vibe going. I think we're around the same age, but yes, I'm a little younger. It is definitely a cultural thing to remain friends post relationship. It doesn't bother me, but it is hard to imagine a future with our mutual queer friends in which we are just meant to be fine with it all. Too much pain ATM.
Originally Posted by Yail
4) I'd like to know more about your caretaker dynamic with W. She seems to be fulfilled in part by the fact that she is caretaker for OP. I am not suggesting you weaken yourself to change your dynamic with W. But I have some thoughts and I'd like to hear more about how you two would have interacted when your R was on solid ground.
This is one area that I need improvement. It is one of my top priorities when I start IC. I have realized a trend in past relationships and current, that I am far too nurturing and caring. I don't think I was this way when our R was on solid ground. WW graduated college and became depressed because of a lack of career opportunities. When I really think about past experiences and my own shortcomings I noticed that whenever faced with R hardship, I kick into fix-it or momma bear mode and try to make my partner happy. This includes walking on egg-shells, way too much pampering and doting, and generally ignoring my own needs and feelings.
I completely agree that she is getting fulfillment from being caretaker for OP. She has even told me that it feels good for her to feel needed. It [censored]. It's all I have wanted from her since our dynamic shifted. Prior to graduation, she was an amazing caretaker and stay at home student. I worked, she cooked, cleaned, and went to school. I miss our teamwork and mutual effort. I would love to hear your thoughts.
Blu,
I'm finding more ways for "self care" everyday. Last night, I got greasy takeout, put fresh sheets on the bed, and watched a movie. I also spent way too much on a cordless vacuum I have been wanting for a few months. Adulting for the win! I am feeling much better and thanks for asking - the flu [censored]. I have been reading and re-reading your advice on both mine and May's page. I will be ruminating on letting go and moving forward with my life. I have some ideas and will be posting soon for advice on wording and prep work.
CW,
Glad you're still standing strong! Thanks for a few laughs on a Monday morning!
KG
LBW 32 - me WW 31 T 7 M 4 No Kids 4 dogs
Separated 1y Navigating the mine field and GAL with or without
I hope everyone had a great Christmas. I spent mine with ww and her family. It was enjoyable, but also bittersweet knowing that this could be the last one. It felt a bit as though we were only together out of obligation and not any real sense of want. Lately, I am longing for intimacy. It is getting harder spending time with her and feeling like more of a friendship. She is more attentive to her phone than a nuke detonating right in her living room. I felt very alone despite spending 24 hours together. Just to fill you all in, I am preparing myself to leave her in January. It has become quite clear that it is unhealthy for me to continue in this toxic environment. I keep telling myself that we will never have a healthy relationship unless she really does some soul searching and growing. And that growth cannot and will not happen with me firmly planted as plan B. It is going to be the hardest thing I will ever do, and I have really been waiting until I know that I can and will stand by my request for space (with support from friends and everyone here). It only makes me feel weak and broken when I go dim or dark only to recant my position in a few days at her pursuit. This time, I need to continue the journey of healing for myself. I need to evaluate whether I want a future R with her.
KG
LBW 32 - me WW 31 T 7 M 4 No Kids 4 dogs
Separated 1y Navigating the mine field and GAL with or without
I feel you in so many ways and I'm preparing myself for H to move out in some degree in January too. I'm here for you.
Someone-- maybe CW?-- posted recently about the silver lining being that we get to have the experience of falling in love again, and maybe that is something that can help keep you going. There are a lot of positive things on the other side of this valley, and we just have to get through and some distance from the daily hurt to get clarity on what we really need for ourselves.
We're about to start a whole new decade. Let's do it right.
May
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
KG, I think this is a good decision. And even when making it, I get the sense part of you thinks she'll follow you shortly after. I say this because a small part of me felt the same way, despite my words to the contrary.
The good thing about this process is you don't have to let go all at once. You can do it in stages. When it gets to be difficult just remind yourself that no one can read the future. You don't have to let go of hope for the future if you don't want to, but you do have to let go of the now. And by "now" start by thinking of that as a 2 year time period. Anything less than that is not enough. You will be making choices for KG and ONLY KG for 2 years, with zero input from WW. Want to quit your job and start a new one? Great! You don't have to check in with WW. Want to go on a solo vacation and spend a bit over budget? YAY!
This mentality is something that helped me tremendously. I still don't know what future, if any, my XW and I may have. Perhaps we reconnect in 10 years. Perhaps in 5 she is meant to become my friend. But not now. Right now I'm only 1 year after she said she wanted to get a D, and that's still a very short period of time. So for now the answer is still "no". It's too fresh, it's too raw, and she is not what is good for me now. Of course, I don't have her banging down the door either looking for any contact, which makes it easier.
There's something to be said for discovering how to get your groove back. It can be thrilling to rediscover yourself, and to see growth. Focus on this. This is why I joke about bathroom dance parties and redoing your make-up.
What will you be saying to WW exactly? You said "a request for space". I feel like you've done that before, and I'm thinking it's up for interpretation and debate. "Space" is vague.
I think you need to tell her exactly what you're looking for, and that may include the words "separation" and/or "divorce". Those are difficult words. I think you need to consider some legal options for protection as well.
What happens if you ask for a separation and WW gets mad (it happens), and vindictive? Every single one of us has been blindsided by something we did not expect from our previously loving spouses. It is best to be realistic and protect yourself. Perhaps a separation order where it states you are not liable for any financial decisions she makes. What if she goes and buys a new car and now you have new debt attached to your name/credit? I urge you to think carefully and not make decisions out of fear, panic, or undue trust.
You need to request back your key to the apartment, and if you share custody of the pups you need an agreed upon schedule in writing with zero surprises allowed.
We just want to identify how she can sneak back into your life and interrupt it, because she is going to try. Cutting off those options now is key to your healing.
I'm sorry Christmas was strange. Do you have fun NYE plans?
