Scout, I heard every single one, almost word for word, except overtly the sex one (but definitely in the room).
The anger will come and go for a long time. Your psyche lets you deal with these things as you can. The character of it changes though.
I love DnJ, but he is still a man (sorry DnJ). Feelings matter and how you feel about things matter. But the two, our thoughts/beliefs and our feelings need to be in an equilibrium, with neither of them running the show. An upset in the scale either way upsets the balance.
Yes, do the brain dump. It helps. Cry and scream in the car and the shower. Process away. You are kicking it.
It's Sunday night. Son is in bed and dishes are done. I'm poring over cookbooks and food magazines planning my Christmas menu. I did my Christmas shopping this morning and thought how wonderful it was to buy gifts for loved ones without Scrooge McGrinch (aka H) harping on about how much it all cost. How freeing and fulfilling it was to come across an item and think "xyz would love that" and pop it in the trolley without a second thought.
I am a spendthrift by nature, and even more so by conditioning, but H became truly obsessed with frugality and the idea of retiring early. He put us on a highly restricted budget when S1 was born. I was on maternity leave (minimum wage) for a year and struggled to get out of the house and take care of myself on my 'allowance' - I'm talking a coffee date, a yoga class, a lunch, even buying clothes that fit post-pregnancy. I believe this contributed to the debilitating post-natal depression/anxiety I experienced.
I was making notes in my phone of the Christmas groceries I need and came across a note I made in November last year. I had forgotten about it, but reading it again now - whoa.
It was around this time that my PND/A was at its worst. H had just signed a $50k car loan that I was vehemently opposed to, and the debt frightened me as I had expressed a need for financial flexibility during my return to work in January. I had started individual counselling, and asked H to go to marriage counselling because I was deathly unhappy. I told him if the things in this note didn't change, that we might be better off raising our son apart.
You know - the honest approach that emotionally mature people take!
I feel [ ] Taken advantage of [ ] Mine/S's wellbeing at home isn't considered [ ] Lonely [ ] My thoughts and feelings aren't taken seriously [ ] I'm not worth your effort or attention [ ] My health and fitness isn't supported [ ] Insecure about my value and worth
Because [ ] You don't pick up after yourself [ ] You don't consider the impact that has on the house and my responsibility for maintaining it [ ] I have to pick up after you so S doesn't get into things he shouldn't [ ] I have to pick up after you before I can get to other chores [ ] You're addicted to technology (as am I) [ ] You make jokes or give a stock response or brush me off whenever I want to talk about my feelings [ ] You don't bother to shower/use deodorant/shave on my account [ ] You fart in front of me and other gross body stuff when I've told you it turns me off [ ] You won't commit to healthy eating or a fitness routine [ ] My contributions to the household aren't noticed or appreciated
That makes me [ ] Resent you for making my daily life harder and more boring [ ] Lash out at you for seemingly small things that actually are a big deal to person stuck at home every day [ ] Not want to do anything extra for you/only take care of S and myself [ ] Have no desire to have sex with you [ ] Cook/eat unhealthier than I'd like because I have to take your preferences into account [ ] Turn to technology more than I'd like so I can feel connection and support from other people [ ] Needy for constant validation and reassurance [ ] Feel guilty about spending money, particularly on myself because I don't contribute to finances equally [ ] Ask you to do things I could do myself so that the scales are balanced
Therefore [ ] Housework may not seem like a big deal to you but it is the only thing that gives me purpose [ ] By sabotaging my ability to succeed at housework, you prevent me from feeling in control
I need [ ] The living space to be peaceful and calm because I spend majority of the time there [ ] You to be more considerate of the impact your laziness has on me and S and do something about it [ ] Recognition for the things I do achieve even if they seem like nothing to you [ ] Encouragement and opportunity to do things for self care including spending money on things I need [ ] You to be sincere when responding to me [ ] To control my anger towards you and explain why I'm frustrated without being mean [ ] To be more open to physical affection and intimacy [ ] To let you and S have time together without interfering, except when you are using technology excessively around him because that's not ok [ ] To help make home and family a happy place so that everyone wants to be here
H read the above note. He didn't say much. I can't actually remember what was said, but there definitely weren't any apologies or promises made. I guess I was so conditioned to expect a non-response that it didn't surprise me. Eventually he did agree to marriage counselling once he realised I was serious, but that was more of the same shallow, evasive responses from H, so it didn't really help. I don't think he was willing or even capable of doing the work required to actually benefit from counselling. Which is why it surprised me to hear that he is in counselling now.
Holy cow, that list given to an MLCer is going to be a train wreck! Think of what a teenager would do if his mom gave him that. That's how they see it, they are not interested in working through problems. The only way forward is to let them go.
I know you wrote it last year but you present it here as if it's something that you thought would work, so I wanted to chime in on that. That approach will never work with an MLCer and will make things worse. You didn't cause anything with the letter but it could fuel his MLC fire.
I read on the Daughters of Sarah or somewhere, before I knew what MLC was about, writing down all your expectations of your H and then hiding it and rereading them six months later, repeat, until you had let go of all of them. I periodically find that paper and am astonished at how many expectations I let go. Try that. It helped me let go, slowly but surely. It doesn't mean he won't return to being the man you knew. But he won't if you try to make him!
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Well, although I’m not surprised he didn’t respond to that list, my reasoning is a little different - you made that list because he was already out of the marriage but you didn’t know it, so you were looking for solutions without knowing he was having an affair. Gaslighting will do that to you.
As for his frugality efforts - followed by a $50,000 car loan! Obviously the frugality part wasn’t something he could stick to. Doesn’t mean, though, that a frugal approach FOR YOURSELF wouldn’t be a good idea - check out the Mr Money Mustache blog and message boards for information and inspiration.
Oh dear God, did I make it sound like I had given H this list in the present day? Definitely not! This all took place six months prior to BD, before I knew that anything was wrong with H, before I knew about the affair, before any of this had happened. I am not trying to save this marriage anymore and I have no contact with H beyond kid changeovers.
Speaking of, H just arrived for morning visitation. He parked his car on the driveway, not knowing he was parked behind my car inside the garage. I opened the door when he knocked (telling S "dad's here!) and noticed his car. I leave as soon as he arrives. We had the following exchange:
M: Can you move your car, please? H: I thought you park on the other side of the garage M: I park wherever I want these days. You might want to start parking on the street. H: No. I'm not going to do that. I'll park my car on the driveway and move it every single time if I have to. M: (laughing internally) OK. H: Where's his stroller? Is it in your car or the garage? W: In my car. You'll need to get your own stroller though. H: (stares at me for a moment then shakes his head as if he can't believe the audacity of what I said) M: You can take it today, that's fine. But you'll need to sort your own stuff out for him when you have him. H: (scoffs, presumably at how unbelievably petty and unreasonable I am)
As a sanity check for my own behaviour, I often try to imagine H retelling these exchanges to try and make himself look like the victim. Eg.
"She told me I had to park my car on the street! ON THE STREET! Who does she think she is?" "Apparently I have to buy my own stroller to put my child in when I have him. What a b!tch!"
Your h isn't stupid one bit. He figures that he will use all of the "baby" stuff you have...so he doesn't have to put out any money at his own place. At some point, he's going to have to get baby things for his place and keep them there for when the little one comes over. It's not your responsibility to provide him with the essentials. I would think it would be far easier to have a stroller at each place, instead of folding one up every time the little one goes over there. But, in his mind, he thinks that you should be taking care of all of that for him.
As for where you park in your garage, that is your business. You asked him politely to move his car and if he wants to go through that exercise each and every time he comes, so be it. He's still trying to control what is going on in your space.
He hasn't figure out what the word divorce means when it comes to separate households and each household having what is needed to take care of the little one. He's in for a rude awakening at some point.
You handled the conversation very well today.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks, job, for confirming that I’ve not done anything wrong.
Is H determined to make my life difficult, or is he just a hopeless dolt?
He turned up half an hour late for kid changeover this afternoon. I refuse to chase him up to do the right thing anymore, so I did not call or text. I held my temper when he knocked at the door. I just said "Hi. You were supposed be here at 5. Please get the stroller out of the car." He looked at me literally slack-jawed and said "I thought you were at work..."
I was, and I had to leave a two-hour meeting with heads of department early in order to get home by 5pm. This was to accommodate today’s change in visitation that he requested as part of his Christmas schedule. I didn't bother sharing how it affected my day. I just repeated "You were supposed to be here at 5. Please get the stroller out of the car." He did so, then said "bye, S" and left.
It’s possible he got confused with his normal weekday dropoff time of 5:30pm. In which case, an acknowledgment and apology for his mistake would have sufficed. Is that too much to expect? Probably, huh.
My dad flew into town for the holidays last night, so once H left I took S to my mother’s house for dinner. While I was dressing him after his bath, I noticed there were still three of four nappies left in his bag. Meaning he only had one nappy change in the 12 hours he was with H. Not great for his poor little bottom. The change pad was also missing from the bag. Lord, give me strength.
Well done with H being late and the parking in the driveway and the stroller and ...
Yeah, crisis and divorce, H is in for a big slap in the face when reality kicks in.
Originally Posted by scout12
Is H determined to make my life difficult, or is he just a hopeless dolt?
A bit of both probably. But hopeless dolt is a pretty good assumption for when and where he is for most times.
The latest 5:30 instead of 5:00 pickup time shows a bit of it. I don’t see culpable intent with his incorrect time; there’d be a smirk or smugness to him. A person in that mindset want and needs the other to see the power they are exerting, quite passive aggressive. Of course some are just outright aggressive and nasty and cruel.
H’s slack-jawed response sounds genuine. Crisis people have minds and memory like Swiss cheese - full of holes. He may have forgot, well I’m thinking he really did forget. He may have been listening when you told him about the different drop off time, and then poof it’d be gone. It doesn’t take much to overwhelm him in his current state.
I am a bit surprised he is keeping to the “normal” scheduled times so well. Truth be told. There is usually much more frustration with their lack of punctuality.
One quick thing, there was four nappies left in the bag - therefore only one change. Maybe (ok probably). Perhaps H got some of his own. A bit wishful thinking I know, but don’t jump to conclusions to quick. Is it probable that H only changed S once in 12 hours? Is there further evidence, like rash and so on?
This is something you should discuss with H. Politely, of course (and you got that down really good). Ask him how often is he checking and changing son. If H is having any problems or concerns. What brand he bought. Etc. Should be able to start a conversation and find out and gently correct H; the well-being of S being the focus of the conversation will not blame H and therefore get what you want out of it.
You got some strength in you girl!
DnJ
Last edited by job; 12/16/1912:58 PM. Reason: edited a word for DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Why are you giving him a fully stocked diaper bag? Why doesn’t he have his own bag and his own diapers? I’d stop that right now . Hand him a paper bag with any bottles needed and the name and size of the diapers you buy. Tell him he needs to buy his own stuff for S. Or just gift him a cheap gaudy diaper bag.
It honestly never occurred to me to not send a fully stocked bag. Hmm. I thought it was best for S to have access to all his familiar things when he's out with his dad, but you're right, it's not my responsibility anymore. Especially as the bag is regularly returned missing water bottles, snack containers, spare clothes etc. Not sure if H is losing or keeping them.
S did have a rash and marks from the nappy on his legs and bottom yesterday. The nappy was bulging full when I changed him. Poor kiddo. Once again he was not given breakfast at home. He asks for cereal when he wakes up, so I tried giving him the cereal box and getting him to ask H himself when he arrives. I guess H told him no and put it away.
With regards to the tardiness, H has never been respectful of other people's time. It used to embarrass me when we were together. He thought an arrival time was more of a goal and that people could just wait. Whereas I'm more of an 'on time is late' kinda person. Trip planning was always left to me to figure out, and H didn't care much about helping to get us out the door on time, but he would inevitably blame me for our collective lateness.
So I think the continued problem with his punctuality is just more of the same careless behaviour, just magnified through crisis. Despite the fact that the 5pm dropoff time was one that he decided on, and put in writing in email to confirm, I guess he just forgot.
