Hi, there. I’m almost exactly 6 months post-BD and maybe a year into what seems like my H’s MLC. Still living as roommates in the home we’ve rented for 7 years, though he’s gone 98% of the time living his “new life.” We were married 10 years in November, have known each other for 16. I started DBing a week and a half after the BD, and I’ve been visiting this board off and on since. It’s been a great source of support, but this is my first time posting. I expect divorce papers to arrive at the beginning of the year, and I’m having trouble lately not being sucked in to my H’s rewriting of our history so that it’s all negative. I’m having trouble maintaining my own sense of reality. I wasn’t sure whether to post this in the Newcomers section or MLC. This is so long; I apologize! It’s so hard to summarize and I know I’m leaving stuff out.
Upfront, one thing I’m wondering: does anyone here have experience with MLCers seeing counselors? Is that a potentially hopeful thing in the long run for their coming through the crisis?
Marriage/BD: This summer I’d been noticing anger and distance in my H even as we were talking about where we’d want to go for a 10th anniversary trip we’d decided to take, so I asked him what was up. His answer was a shock to me but followed the script many of you are familiar with—he’s been unhappy for a long time, cares about me but doesn’t love me, believes that I only want to make changes only now that he’s threatening divorce. He also said he doesn’t know who he is at home anymore. There was the script, but there were also issues, I knew, we needed to work on in our marriage, including intimacy and communication, and we were finally talking about them. He was open to trying marriage counseling at first but said he thought we had a 4% chance of making it. A couple days later, he kissed me and said he was trying. The first therapist I found with an opening wanted us to come in for an in-person consult—right before we walked in to the appointment, H told me he felt it was pointless and didn’t mean what he’d said when he kissed me and said he was trying. He said he was just in a good mood that night. I was crushed. Appt. was a terrible experience—therapist just let us repeat everything we’d already said to each other during/after BD. I think it confirmed for him counseling would be pointless. We had a couple of other phone consults with other Cs that week, one that came recommended from some married friends of his and also recommended by other marriage counselors. We both liked her, but he said his mind was made up, counseling wouldn’t help us. I suggested we both try individual C—I let him stick with that counselor since I doubted he’d follow through otherwise, and I found my own, and started working with a DB-style coach as well.
Read The Divorce Remedy and started DBing that next week. In C I’ve really focused on understanding his POV and taking responsibility for my contributions to the state of our marriage, including lack of sex (and my shame surrounding that) and defensiveness. The first thing my C said was: These things are totally workable and are things that so many couples struggle with—he just needs to be on board!
About H: A few things I think are essential to understanding H and our sitch now. As long as I’ve known him, he’s defined himself as a perpetually happy person—nothing can get him down. It’s a point of pride for him, and everyone around him knows this. I used to think this was such an amazing way to live, always positive, always choosing to be happy no matter what. I absolutely believed him. And then a few years ago his mom had a kind of breakdown where we were worried about her stability for a while, and it came out that she’d struggled with depression and anxiety her whole life and had never told him. He became even more afraid of upsetting her. I started to see that she’d always done what he’s done—put on a happy face, act like nothing is wrong. His role has always been to do anything to make her happy, even if it went against his own feelings. His mom and dad divorced when he was young, and his dad doesn’t have much of a role in his life. They maybe talk a couple of times a year on the phone, and we always spend Christmas with his mom and dad—they’ve remained friends, and everyone has always remarked on how strange it is that they get along. I now wonder if there’s more to the story there. Is he sad that he doesn’t have a relationship with his dad? “Naaah, my dad’s weird. What can you do?” That was his response to anything that might mess with his happy outlook—“Naah, what’re you gonna do? I choose to be happy.”
One other thing is that he’s always said he’s good at not thinking about things until he “has” to—he compartmentalizes like no one I’ve ever known, and he would tell anyone this as well. Example: When we were dating in college, I broke up with him, we stayed friends, and a few months later I told him I’d realized I still loved him. But he’d started dating someone else. When we got back together a year or so later, he wrote me a letter that said he’d been in so much pain when I broke up with him. He convinced himself I would never love him again, then stayed busy and ran away from thinking about us until he couldn’t do that anymore. Post-BD: More and more I’ve begun to understand how the BD was the culmination not only of a marriage crisis but a personal crisis for H: if you’ve always staked your identity on being a genuinely happy, carefree person, and suddenly you realize you do have feelings of sadness and anger and unhappiness like everyone else, how do you cope? Who are you?
MLC? The last 6 months have been a rollercoaster—some days he’s warm and treats me like a distant friend, some days he offers me food or candy, which we always used to share. Most days he’s cold and shut down and makes me feel like a stranger. He’s become a stranger in a lot of ways to me and our friends—he was always a guy who said he couldn’t wait to get old, looked down on people our age who partied, loved staying at home and cooking and baking, loved our cats like children, loved our chickens and spent months building a coop for them last summer. He’s accused the only mutual friend of ours he’s kept of interrogating him. When she asked him what he imagined his life would be like after divorce, he said he’s not thinking about it. He’s ignored texts from our good friends, a couple who we’ve known for ten years, and who have a toddler he adored. He’s found new friends and stays out until midnight or 3 am, drinking a lot of the time. For months I’ve taken over all the house stuff, all the pet stuff. He maybe cooks something for himself once a month. He spends money like we have it—I think since June he’s bought 8 pair of shoes, lots of new clothes, and pocketknives.
With the help of my db coach, I’d been working on an apology letter for months, a letter that focused on acknowledging his pain and taking responsibility for my failures in our marriage. I gave it to him at the end of October, not expecting it to change anything, but of course hoping it might.
The weekend before Thanksgiving, he left me a letter saying he was planning to file for divorce, that he couldn’t be the kind of happy he wanted to be with me, and that we could talk in person about it if I wanted. The next day I was home, but he’d conveniently been out drinking until the early morning hours and slept until noon, when I had to leave for work. We did talk that night, the first R talk since June, and what surprised me is that he sounded sad. He said on paper we’re perfect, but all his (new) friends say we aren’t fixable. He doesn’t know if he could fall in love with me again. I tried to validate and listen—I respect his view and desire for divorce, I said, even if I don’t agree with it. He said he thinks we should be able to come to an agreement ourselves, even though I brought up mediation. In his view, we’ve been communicating just fine since June, even though he’s barely spoken to me. He said he wished he’d been able to realize he was unhappy so much earlier, maybe then we could’ve done counseling.
I really felt my 180 at work that night; all these months I’d been giving him space, not pressuring him, focusing on myself in C while he distanced himself from me and everything in his “old” life. I was calm, vulnerable, not defensive. Going in to the conversation, I wanted to focus on radiating unconditional love and support and remaining nonjudgmental.
A couple of weeks ago, we were supposed to talk again (I had questions about the legal insurance he’d said he was signing up for), and he walked in with a completely different attitude, super angry, and started yelling right off the bat:
“I don’t have time for this! I’m busy with my NEW life and my NEW friends who appreciate me!” (He’d already told me he’d decided to dump another one of his old friends, because she also didn’t appreciate him.)
I stayed calm. I said, “If you want to try to work out an agreement ourselves, we probably will have to set aside a time to talk. Does another time/day work for you?” He kept yelling.
“I have stuff to do! I don’t have time for this! I’ve always done what you want! I’m not a selfish person, but I’ve spent my whole life putting other people first, and now I have to put me first!”
“I’m sorry you feel that way,” I said. “That’s not cool, to feel like you always have to do what other people want. Just text me whenever you think it’s a good time for you.”
I’m sure his C encouraged him to open up communication with me, but clearly he’s not ready. I wanted to say to him: “You’ve been living this new life with your awesome friends for almost six months now—I haven’t been stopping you or asking you anything about it. And now you’re starting the divorce process. So why do you think you’re still not happy?”
He stormed out and hasn’t brought talking up again. I did talk to him briefly when he happened to be here last weekend. I said I wanted to let him know I’d been thinking about what he said—that I’d seen him always put his mom first, and that I wished I’d realized that he’d been doing that with me too. I said I was sorry for that. I wanted to mirror some of the complaints he’s had. I said I wanted him to be happy, and feel understood, and feel appreciated, and desired.
He said “Thanks, but I don’t want that with you.” He repeated the thing about how he’s not sure if he could fall in love with me again.
I asked him why he doesn’t think he could try.
He said he’s hurt that I only made changes in myself once he threatened to leave, and he worries things would just go back to how they were. He said all this time he was pretending to be someone he wasn’t to please me, and I wouldn’t like the new him.
I can tell he’s still angry and blames me for not recognizing how unhappy he was; at the same time, he says he wishes *he* could’ve recognized how unhappy he was.
He’s been distant in the few minutes each day I do see him. He’s asked me a couple of polite questions, but mostly keeps his headphones on when he is here.
Knowing his personality, knowing how he kept himself busy and shut down thinking about our relationship when we dated, I’ve always told myself he’d have to follow through with the D before he could ever start to face what it actually means for his life. Or before he’d ever be able to see that I’m not the source of all his unhappiness. As he says, if he doesn’t want to think about things, he doesn’t. With these new friends, the partying, the drinking, I can’t help but feel he’s been running away from feeling anything that’s more complex than D = freedom, happiness. Some days I want to ask him to leave and start his new life. Some days I miss him. Some days I let him get to me, as much as I try to detach.
I am posting Cadet's Welcome posting for you to read. If you think that this is MLC, you may want to request that your thread be moved to the MLC Forum. However, it is ultimately your choice where you want to post.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Your H or W is giving you a GIFT. THE GIFT OF TIME. USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D33,S32
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
To answer your question about MLCers and counselors. Generally the MLCer may opt to see a counselor/therapist to appease the spouse. They go, they listen and then pick and choose the words that apply to how they feel and generally only go for a couple of sessions and then state that they aren't going any longer as they have chosen to only hear words that would help them justify why they feel the way they do and convince them that it is okay to separate/divorce.
My advice is not to push him on the counselor/therapist. In fact, step back and no more discussions about the relationship. The more you push, the more he's going to run. It is best to give him plenty of space and time. While he's figuring himself out, focus on you and your finances at the moment.
This is his journey to make. We, unfortunately, have not been invited on this particular journey as it is a journey of the past that must come full circle to the present. He was emotionally stunted at an early age and now needs to revisit that time in order to realize that it was not his fault that authority figures treated him the way that they did. You didn't break him, therefore, you can't fix him. He is the only one, w/the aid of the man upstairs, can fix himself.
Your journey has begun. It is a time for you to look within, if there are changes that you need to make for yourself, then do so. Don't make changes just to win him back. Those changes must become permanent. It is a time for you to rediscover you! It is a time to do the things that you have put on the back burner. It is a time to pull that list out of the things that you have not done or wish to do and go out there and do them. When your h sees that you are making great strides in living your life and are becoming a more confident and happier person, that is when he will notice and attempt to see if you will revert back to the person he thinks that you were. Don't take the bait...stay the course!
Dig deeper for patience, listen to what he has to say and do not offer up advice unless he asks for it. Keep the focus on you and allow the man upstairs to work on your h.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks, Job. He’s been going to his IC for these last 6 months as well, but I don’t know for sure how often. Our mutual friend says he doesn’t tell her anything about the sessions, but his general attitude is he doesn’t know why he’s going, though she says he hasn’t said that in a while now. During our last talk, he did mention that the IC is helping him recognize his patterns and push back against him when he says if you can’t change something, there’s no reason to let it affect your feelings or make you unhappy.
I do think early on he’s told her the version of our R that will allow him to justify his decision, but I suspect he might have shown her the apology letter I wrote him, which would’ve given her at least a small picture of the work I’m doing on myself.
It’s become clearer and clearer to me that he has a long way to go on his own and learning how to deal with a range of emotions in a more healthy way. I’m really hoping he continues to stick with his IC, because he’s going to need help with that. My own IC did say if he’s numbing with alcohol, which it appears he is, C progress can be really slow.
He's got a lot of childhood issues to deal with right now. He was emotionally stunted as a child/teenager and he was always pleasing others and keeping his little mouth shut to voice "what about me? I need to be happy too" He was seen, but not heard.
Depression is the main ingredient of MLC. Depression is about the past and anxiety is about the present and future. It's going to take him some time to work through his issues. The IC may be able to help him, but there may come a time when he will shut down w/the IC too.
He's going to cut all of those "old" friends out of his life because they are reminders of his former life and they know him so well. He's going to get an entire new group of friends who really do not know his past. He try many different things along the way. Things that he has said that he would never do pre-crisis. Right now, he is the mirror ijmage of the good man, I.e., the exact opposite of the man you and love.
His journey is one that you weren't invited on and he needs to spread his wings and figure things out for himself. You didn't break him, therefore, you can't fix him. However, your journey is also beginning. It's a journey of self exploration, i.e., learning about yourself, thinking about what you want to do w/your life while he is orbiting the earth. It is a time to dig out that list of things that you've always wanted to do and didn't have the time. It's a time to create new memories and truly learn to love yourself. If you need to make changes, now is the time to do so. The changes are for you and not to win him back. They need to become a permanent part of your life.
Dig deeper for patience and learn as much as you can about depression and MLC.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
However, your journey is also beginning. It's a journey of self exploration, i.e., learning about yourself, thinking about what you want to do w/your life while he is orbiting the earth.
One thing I've discovered in this crappy time is that I'm a lot more secure in my sense of self than he is and better able to find happiness within myself. I want that for him too. My main fears are financial--I now have to find a new job that can support me, because even with alimony my current job won't cut it, and I have to have faith that will happen. In the meantime, I am taking comfort in the fact that I CAN find fulfillment own my own, even if I do miss sharing so many aspects of daily life with him. I've rediscovered a lot of confidence in myself that I'd forgotten I had. I'm also learning about how to be vulnerable, and that both of these--strength and vulnerability--can exist at once.
I'm still thinking about what PLC said in her thread: "I am stronger than he realizes."
This morning I'm thinking about something I realized after I tried summarizing my sitch for my first post on Saturday: I've been thinking of my last conversation with H pretty negatively--seeing it as confirmation that he's not in a place to notice the changes I've made yet. But in saying he's hurt that I only started to change once he threatened to leave and that he's afraid if he did give the R a chance, things would go back to the way they were, I see that in one compartment of his brain, he does see that I've changed.
I think I also continue to exist in yet another compartment of his brain: a few months ago, I started leaving him short notes on the kitchen table once or twice a week since he was almost always gone when I got home from one job and before I headed to another--they were mostly businesslike--one of our cats needs meds twice a day, and I'd let him know whether or not I'd had a chance to do that, or whether or not they'd been fed. But I also tried to throw in jokes the way I'd normally do, and sometimes I would let him know I'd made cookies or whatever, and that he was welcome to take some. (Sometimes he would and sometimes he wouldn't.) Once I expressed sympathy after he'd told me, casually, that a dear family friend of his had died suddenly.
Does he throw these little notes away after he reads them, in the trash can that sits a few feet away? No. He takes them back to his room, and he's saved every one of them.
Yep, MLCers do that, i.e., they save notes, gifts, cards and wrapping paper in some cases. Very, very typical behavior for someone in crisis. They will look at those things over and over again when they are alone and/or can't sleep at night.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
This is so strange to me! Is it just another thing that you can’t begin to make sense of, another sign of their confusion and fog? This is also making remember that in the letter he wrote me before we started dating for good again after the college break-up, he said he used to look at my picture every night in his room by himself, before he made himself believe there was no chance I would love him again and he decided to stop thinking about us and keep himself busy.
Something he did tear up into little pieces and throw away: an ad that came addressed to him in the mail for an anniversary necklace, “engraved” with a love poem from him to me. I found this kind of funny—i.e. apparently it’s getting to him, or he would’ve just thrown it away with the rest of the mail and not taken the time to tear it up first!
Have you visited the MLC Forum yet? Much of what is going on has been experienced by many of us who have/had MLCers in our lives.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
