Persistant Endurance (Part 7)

[curtis7]

My mother wanted to celebrate Thanksgiving at my place and invited W. I felt that was fine and accepted as it might be the last family dinner I share with her. W asked if she could invite divorced BFF and her kids. I thought about it for a couple days and informed her that would be okay. Even though BFF is not a supporter of our MR (she’s actually a cancer), she is important to my WW right now. I realized that I only asked my W to have NC with the OM and be honest with me in my email that stated my needs to build a new MR. I had thought about specifying something about continued interaction with BFF, but decided that people can live with cancer.

The night before Thanksgiving I discovered that my WW was again sending nude selfies to the OM. I decided it was time for her to make a choice. My thoughts were it’s over, it’s clear she can’t stop or doesn’t want to end her A’s. I wanted to take action and end this myself. I deserve respect in this relationship. I get nothing. She doesn’t initiate, she doesn’t give me anything but pain and suffering. Take, take, take. So selfish and only has love for herself.

When she arrived with the kids I asked her to join me outside by the pool to talk about something. Here are some key

H: “I sent you the email a few weeks ago. Have you made a decision? Are you ready to rebuild our life together?”
W: “I don’t know. You have these expectations of me. We went on one date and you’re pressuring me.”
H: “I don’t want to be separated anymore. I know you were with both OM2 and OM3 in October and tried again November.”
W: “OM2’s a boy and I haven’t seen him in months, he contacted me about his daughter a few weeks ago. There’s nothing to end with OM2, he doesn’t contact me, there’s nothing there.”
H: “I know you tried to arrange a meeting with him that week.”
W: “Do you want me to leave and forget about this dinner?”
H: “Up to you. You can do whatever you want.”
W: “Where are you getting all of this from? I want to know.”
H: “It doesn’t matter how I know, it matters that I know and you are still not being honest about it. You also went to see OM3 a few weeks ago.”
W: “No, I haven’t seen OM3 in months. It’s over with him. I told him this won’t work out. I deleted everything. I’m not ready to show you and open everything up to you, I’ll be right back under your thumb.”
H: “I also know you had a PA with co-worker OM1.”
W: “Why do you think that, did you talk with him? He’s a narcissist. I never did anything with him. Over the past 4 months, I’ve had to push him away, I’m almost ready to go to HR. How do you know all these things? Where have you been looking?”
H: “W, the lies and trickle truth are more painful. I don’t understand why you can’t be honest with me. If it’s to protect me or because you think it’s okay to never disclose everything. I would like us to be completely honest with each other so that there are no more secrets and we can rebuild trust.”

[I then thought to myself, what am I doing? Where is this going? I’ve disclosed all of the secrets I know about her and yet she refuses to own up to the truth. The lies are never ending, what am I fighting for? I just looked at her eyes which appeared very glassy, maybe the way the sunlight was shining on them. I asked myself who is the person? My W has been taken over by an alien monster. She looked unrecognizable to me.]

H: “This isn’t going to work out. I just want us to be honest with each other, I can’t live with the lies anymore. I wanted to tell you everything I know so that there is nothing between us.”
W: “Ok, how about the time when you weren’t there for me, or the other time, blah, blah, blah, or all the other crap I had to put up with for 18 years. People don’t know about that.”
H: “I’m sorry for all those things. If I had to do it over again, I would have done things differently. I feel we can build a better marriage together. I thought about what I needed in that email and could have asked for a lot more, but in the end all I need is for you to commit to NC with your affair partners and be honest with me.”
W: “They are not affairs, we are separated. You haven’t let me be separated this whole time. Are you going to keep looking for stuff if we divorce?”
H: “I don’t need to look. I had hoped that you ended your affairs. Once I knew that wasn’t the case, I decided that I’m done. Go ahead and don’t call them affairs, but most women move out so they can sleep with OM without interference from their H. I don’t want this separation anymore. I wanted my W and family back. Can you appreciate that? Is that wrong to want my W and family? I feel that you have an addiction and can’t see through the affair fog. It keeps drawing you back. Once you’ve gone NC, I’ve read that it takes 3-4 weeks for the strongest feelings to subside during withdrawal and almost all feelings are gone in 6 months. Every time contact is re-established the clock resets. Do you want to end contact? Have you tried to stop and suffered relapses? Do you need help, I have no problem stepping in and protecting our family.”
W: “This is about you keeping up your image with me.”
H: “I make no apologies for trying to save and protect my family. I want you, it’s everything about you, not just the sex like it is for your OM. I want our marriage to last, but if you’ve decided that they can make you happier than I can, it’s time for me to step aside. It comes down to a choice. If you won’t choose to end your affairs, then I can no longer remain married to you. So, what do you want?”
W: “I don’t know. I should be here and you should be over there at that other house.”
H: “I didn’t step out on our MR and decide to be with other people.”
W: “You’re holding all the cards at this place because you know everything I want is here.”
H: “Yes, because this is the life we built together. Of course, what we want is here. Do you think you’ve given our MR a try? Do you want to give our MR a try? Is our MR worth it, is our family worth it?”
W: “I don’t know. I want to see that counselor again. Can I have her name and use your employer plan?”
H: “Go right ahead, but she’s not pro marriage.”
W: “It’s not for marriage counseling, it’s for me.”
H: “This is the biggest decision you’ll have to make for the rest of your life. It is bigger than the two of us. I’ve weighed that out and chosen you. I’m afraid that you are about to make the 2 biggest mistakes of your life. The first when you decide to end our marriage and the second 6 months later when the affair ends and the fantasy wears off.”
W: “I know it’s my choice, but you are going to control me all over again just like you are now by trying to force a decision.”

[Again I sensed all she wants is to continue the cake eating and string me along.]

H: “This isn’t going to work out. I’ve given you more time and more and more and more. Each time you haven’t chosen me. It’s time to move forward. Let’s talk about the settlement. How much custody of the kids do you want?”
W: “What makes you think I want any less than half?”
H: “I don’t know what you want, that’s why I asked. What do you want for the house?”
W: “I think we should keep it together until you decide to sell someday in the future.”
H: “That doesn’t work for me, we need to divide things up.”
W: “Well then I’ll need support for my horse for boarding.”
H: “That will be your responsibility to resolve. How about the other assets?”
W: “I want everything I had before we were married and all gifts that were given to me during MR.”
H: “Please give me a list and I’ll have my lawyer start drawing it up. I really can’t understand how your unwilling to give our MR any chance and give up what we have together. Do you really think it’s going to last with them, why won’t you at least give us a chance?”
W: “I’m not physically attracted to you.”
H: “I understand that and it could take a long time for that to return, but it starts with a commitment. It will never return as long as you are with them. That I know for a fact.”
W: “I can’t come back and leave again. I can’t do that to the kids.”
H: “Why can’t you come back and try? That’s what the kids want. At least they’ll have their parents together longer even if things don’t work out.”
W: “I just know that your claws are going to come out if we continue down the path of divorce.”
H: “Why go in that direction? I wish you would have seen on the day you gave me the letter that I was forever changed and we wouldn’t have had to go through this past year of pain. It is what it is and I’m willing to put the past behind us and build something better, the right way this time.”
W: “blah, blah, blah excuses and lies.”
H: “Are you ok with an uncontested divorce?”
W: “Depends on how we divide things up, blah, blah, blah.”

W went in to help prepare dinner. Divorced BFF came over with her girls. We ate, probably the last family dinner I ever have with her. Cleaned up dishes and leftovers. Then we all watched a movie by the pool. W was overly nice after dinner and brought me drinks and snacks during the movie.

W then said she wanted to go to volleyball the next day. W and BFF left to stay at her place. I emailed W the counselor info, some links on affair resources, and my login info to listen to audiobooks on affairs that are saved to my account. I texted her and asked if she meant what she wrote at Retrouvaille. She replied yes. I asked if she still felt the same way about her responses and she said she would have to read again to be certain.

That takes us through Thanksgiving.

[curtis7]

On Black Friday, I invited W and the kids over to grill out. They came and W did some freelance work on the computer. I gave D5 a ride on the horse, then I rode myself. W came out and gave me some tips on riding. I grilled hamburgers for all of us. W showed me some Xmas gifts for the kids on her phone. I got the kids ready for volleyball, W changed her mind and wanted to go take a bath instead. She said she might come later, but she never showed up.

The next day S8 asked if we were all going to be together for Xmas. I replied I don’t think so. He laid on the patio furniture and cried. I comforted him and said if there was anything I could do to make things better I would. I reassured him that God has a plan for us and we need to keep faith that things will work out in the end. W came over in the evening to feed the horses. I showed her a Xmas tree I wanted to buy and asked to borrow her SUV to go pick it up. She agreed and stayed at our house to watch the kids. I returned after 10pm, the kids were already asleep. W had done some cleaning in the kitchen. She helped me setup the tree. Then, we sat in the living room and enjoyed a bottle of wine. We exchanged small talk, no R discussion. One interesting comment she made when talking about her GF that became a widow over the summer. The GF was in an A and her deceased H knew about it. The AP is pursuing the GF again, but she is hesitant as she knows her H would have been okay with her being with anyone else after he died. My W told her she should be with whoever makes her happy because her H isn’t coming back. W said that probably isn’t what I want to hear. I did not respond. I enjoyed spending time with my W that evening until she finally left at 1am.

A couple days later, W brought the kids over to watch a movie on Disney Plus. S8 asked W if they were going to stay at my house for Xmas. W replied that is up to dad. S8 then asked her if she was going to stay with us and said that she could sleep in the guest bedroom. She said we’ll see. I kept quiet, was thinking I don’t want her staying at our house unless she’s in the master bedroom with me.

Kids came back the next day and S8 told me that on Thanksgiving morning he asked W why she doesn’t come back. She said that she is trying, she knows it’s the right thing to do for me, S8 and D5, but if she comes back she knows she will be miserable. So that is why she is thinking about just staying at the other house. Hard to hear this once again but not surprising with the WW mindset. How does she know she’ll be miserable? I didn’t let it bother me. Believe nothing they say. If she wasn’t in active affairs, maybe she would feel differently about our future. Impeccable timing on my part to confront her on a decision to end her affairs shortly after she had this discussion with the kids.

The next day my W made an appointment for IC (scheduled for today). Maybe she will get the helps she needs. Here’s what may shock many of you based on my pursuit in these most recent updates. That same day I contacted my L to proceed with making arrangements to protect me and my kids. I’m moving forward on parallel paths. If she wants to R, that can be discussed. If WW is her choice, then so be it.

Last weekend, W came to volleyball with us again on Friday and watched two more Disney Plus movies with D5 and I on Saturday. On Sunday, I met her and the kids at a birthday party for a mutual friend.

I really don’t know where she stands with her APs. My current stance is assume the A’s are continuing until she proves to me otherwise.

That’s my sitch through the end of November and to date. Whew, that was a lot to share. GAL is going well, I keep busy. Mentally I’m in a much better place. Detachment is better. Her words and actions don’t have nearly the effect they had on me even a couple months ago.

[may22]

Hi Curtis,

Wow, thank you for sharing. She sounds like she's still a mess. It is just so frustrating to see someone you love totally and completely screw up their own life and then take others along for the ride. My kids are a little older than yours but in the same range... must be so hard to hear them doing things like inviting your W to sleep over at the house.

One question for you-- what is the audiobook you mentioned you gave to her?

[AnotherStander]

Curtis, her perception is that the marriage is over, and her perception is her reality. So why are you trying to argue and negotiate the terms of the marriage with her when she's already made it crystal clear to you that it's over? If you get fired from your job do you go back to your ex-boss the next day to discuss a pay raise and fewer working hours?

[LH19]

C,

The fact she said you haven’t let her be separated the whole times speaks volumes Curtis. You’re trying to control her.

[ovrrnbw]

Wow,

Still serving cake to your own detriment, still having R talks, trying tactics and pressure, and talking about moving on instead of moving on.

Your W is telling you everything you need to know and you're clinging hardcore. She has no respect for you.

Are you in IC?

[Jac12]

Curtis,

I saw a lot of pressure there on your part. I know what it's like to feel like you need to say a lot of things and get things out but I'm not sure it's ever helped in my situation and it doens't seem like the conversation helped in yours either.

If you are ready to move on then just move on. Contact your L and do what you need to do. You don't need to tell her. Actions over words.

One thing I seem to see a lot: If you pressure the WW or WAS to make a decision she's often going to make the one you don't want. And as the vets say, she is going on her FEELINGS at the MOMENT...they are subject to change but they wont' change if you don't give space and focus on yourself.

[curtis7]

One question for you-- what is the audiobook you mentioned you gave to her?

Hi May, we’re not supposed to post book references. There are actually 3 on affairs that I asked her to read. The authors are Glass, Spring, and Harley. Highly recommended and should be easy for you to find.

[joejoe1]

Curt,

Well, I see you are in the same spot doing the same things. Insanity!

Joejoe

[scout12]

Everyone else has said what I am thinking already but my main question is: why are you still snooping her messages? She is obviously upset and agitated and knows you are snooping somehow but hasn't cottoned onto your method. This is an invasion of privacy and a control tactic. Change the passwords, remove access to her accounts or devices, whatever it takes to do the right thing because you obviously can't control yourself. You know this is wrong and it's only hurting you and hurting your chances of genuine reconciliation. Please just stop.