Persistant Endurance (Part 7)

[AnotherStander]

Curtis, you are very frustrating! Look, I know you want to save your M. You DESPERATELY want to save it, just like so many of us do or did. The problem is you are so desperate that you are ignoring DR and all of the advice and going with your instincts. Unfortunately when dealing with a WAS and especially with a WW, your instincts are very wrong. Your WW has no respect for you and you think you can regain her respect by begging, pleading, threatening D, hanging onto her horse so she has to come over, placating her, getting angry with her, etc. You can't "nice" her back. You can't "mean" her back. You can't "negotiate" her back. None of it works. It just never does.

You may think you know better because you know your W better than we do, but we know WW's better than you do and right now she's not your W, she's a full-blown WW. If you want any chance at recon then you've got to quit listening to your instincts and start DB'ing. Give her time and space. Quit snooping.

Why do you keep snooping? You already know she's had multiple affairs, how in the world did you find out she's sending nude selfies when she doesn't even live with you? Because you were snooping. Give it up! You're separated, you can't control her. She can have guys over every night and share nudes all day without your consent. It's morally wrong but it's not illegal.

You fight for your M by not fighting. You fight for it by becoming the better option. You become the better option by making yourself strong and independent to the point that you don't need her or any other woman in your life to function and be happy. Go read or reread Steve's thread, and TXHubby's, and Joe's. They all started out being needy and desperate just like you. They didn't recon until AFTER they stopped that behavior and fully detached. Their W's all had to beg them to recon, and they did it grudgingly. That was how detached they were, and how detached you need to be.

[job]

Curtis,

Why are you here? Are you just using the posters as a sounding board or do you really and truly want to save your marriage and have your wife return to the marriage? If you want to try to save your marriage, then you need to open your ears and listen to what the posters have been advising you for many weeks. Open your eyes and look around you. What you've been doing isn't working...so try something different.

Snooping is ramping up your anxiety and obsession in trying to get her back. It's not going to work...the more you push, the more she's going to run in the opposite direction. Being needy and desperate isn't very becoming in your wife's eyes right now. You need to change the way you are dealing w/your life right now. You need to become the man she fell in love with who was a confident, self-assured and independent man. Show her that man again. Acknowledge the fact that she's got to have that time and space to figure things out.

The posters here have been where you are, myself included. The best thing you can do is let her go and have faith and hope that she will see the light....but she's not going to see the light as long as you are there. She needs to see and sense that you have moved forward w/your life. Moving forward doesn't necessarily mean dating, but it means living your life to the fullest each and every day. Making the changes that you need to make to be a better man and one that will shine throughout the day and night. When she senses that you are going on w/your life, that is when she'll begin to question herself and what she is doing and begin to see the new and improved your.

Curtis, time is precious...time doesn't stand still for any of us. It's important to use that time wisely and that means keeping the focus on you and your family and living your life as if she may not return. Continue to have faith and hope for those two things will help you each and every day...but you need to allow the man upstairs to work on your wife and stop taking the wheel back from him as he is still attempting to work on her.

Keep the focus on YOU!

[MrBrside]

I'll be honest and say from my perspective it sounds more like an infatuation.

Sandy nailed it with what she said before your reply - others have echoed my thoughts since your reply.

I'm very concious about coming across too hard - I read something last night ( may have been or on a Facebook group - cant remember ) about a guy who couldnt move on, kept on trying to convince her he was the right guy and then killed himself... Bad times so i don't want to come across at attacking..

But let me ask you this. What is your defenition of self respect ? - Do you feel you have self respect ? I can't recal what i wrote on my sitch about it, but i'm pretty sure one of the things that got me, when i snapped out of the LBS fog was how desperate i had become. I was deperate to save my family and everything we had. I loved my WW, i loved my family, but the cost of that love was a loss my dignity and self respect initially. I look back now and i know i'm not that guy. It wad this site and the DSO site that gave me a different insight.

Did you really become stronger in 2019 ? Look at all contributions to your posts... People are telling you the same thing OVER and OVER and OVER again.. The same people who have been through what you have, who want to help, but you ignore their advice.

Can i ask you 3 questions - and think about these answers..

Do you feel the posters on here respect you based on the replys / comments you are making ?

Do you believe you have self respect?

Do you believe WW repsects you ?

RESPECT - This is one of the main things Sandy talks about in her initial posts.

Yet you have made little progress in this area in the whole of 2019 - in my opinion.

Even your replys to all the posts come across as quiet "not my fault / i tried that but its not my fault / that didnt work"

I read your replys shaking my head again - its like you don't listen, are rarelly in the wrong and the victim - Maybe a bit harsh here, but i read your replys and thought "gosh this sounds like my WW - i.e justifies everything with emotion not logic, never her fault etc etc - and i consider her to have narsasisic tendanies...

You really do need to reflect on this and the vet replies - or you will continue to live in limbo for 2020.

[joejoe1]

Curt,

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................................I don't think we are cracking your code.........................................................................................

You are stuck in a loop. How do we get Curtis out of this loop.
Either Curtis is not reading our post and understanding them OR Curtis is not listening and actively applying the advice he has been given.

I have to be really harsh here. This is my soldier side coming out.

YOUR WIFE LEFT YOU BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T LISTEN TO HER, YOU WERE CONTROLLING, OBSESSIVE, AND PASSIVE/AGGRESSIVE.

Your replied to every person's post to explain why you are right, won't wrong, or have fixed whatever issue they called out===========OBSESSIVE

You are still snooping, even if it was three weeks ago, you have been knowing about not snooping for months=CONTROLLING

She's telling you she didn't won't to go to R-ville and she's don't won't the relationship. You are sending her information about being in a M=============NOT LISTENING.

How have you changed. You can try and convince yourself, but that won't fly here. We are here to tell you the truth. You WW is running from you and at this point, I can see why, you are not an attractive person. Actually you are very unattractive.

STOP BEING UNATTRACTIVE CURTIS PLEASE......This is my softer side.

Joejoe

[Tryhard]

Curtis , I feel for you dood . I know you would do anything you could to get things back to how they should be . You are only a year in and you have got a long road ahead . People here are on the other side of where you are and no matter how much we try to help , it won’t make sense .

If you have read DR , then you know the importance of baby steps and setting goals . You need to have them set out . No big ones like being back to before BD . Small ones like 1) she feels comfortable around me

1) a I am happy around her
b) I show my confidence
C) I am a leader , WITHOUT being controlling


If you love her , then you can take the steps that need to happen.

You can do it if you allow yourself .

I am not going to preach to you because I know how hard all of this is .

I know you can do it , become a success story

[IHCLACS]

Curtis,

Why are you here?

Curtis, time is precious...time doesn't stand still for any of us. It's important to use that time wisely and that means keeping the focus on you and your family and living your life as if she may not return. Continue to have faith and hope for those two things will help you each and every day...but you need to allow the man upstairs to work on your wife and stop taking the wheel back from him as he is still attempting to work on her.

Keep the focus on YOU!

^^^^^ BINGO!!! Stop trying to get ahead of God. People have free will they can choose the sinful nature or his nature. They can have patience to allow God to work things out with his will and in his time and not ours this is something I'm learning to develop more patience in. Cuz I want you to think about this you are putting your will and your fixation on your ex-wife over everything else in your life when they have decided suddenly not to choose you. I have had a year of space from my ex-wife since we date and the only thing that I've chosen to make improvements on has been very little because I've been so fixated on her and my situation as I've watched her gradually change somewhat for the better but away from the marriage. the answers you come up with cycling over and over in your head again do matter and but eventually in the long run they don't matter the reason why is because you are squandering time when you could be focusing on your life and changing yourself I'm sure you've made a lot of great changes I've seen it in your post. Some days I make awesome change internally and externally and some days I just sit around feeling sorry for myself and then I get angry at myself and say why did I do that why did I waste my energy and procrastination capacity everyday.

Coming back to my point is for the last year I've been going round and round in my head with anxiety fluctuating between anger sadness realization epiphanies indifference, gain, happiness small contentments, resentments, powerplace pridefulness stubbornness sometimes the willingness to let go. It's all part of the growth process and you have to forgive yourself for it and be patient with yourself your life, your spouse and your soon-to-be ex-spouse. Curtis if you really love them for who they were who they are and who they want to be on their own free will and still not have it affect you? More importantly can you not be controlling of her. She feels controlled by you a lot of them do even mine I think? Mine once said to me months ago she said she finally feels like she has a voice. Or something to that effect. I said Lee realized anxiety in the dysfunction that I brought irritability anger the lack of communication and understanding. At this point it's got me really questioning in my head on whether we were really compatible? I've kind of Rewritten history myself since I've been alone. I know there were good times there I know what there was love there and I know that there was commonalities here but I also know that there were severe disconnects that developed to either because of her lack of communication with me or because of my lack of effort the process to understand. Sometimes we miss the forest for the trees in hindsight is 20/20. How hard is it for you to let her go? How is this attachment to her serving you? I bet it's someone of a hindrance on your well-being here and there not always but most of the time. More importantly how much of the stuff do you think that you're doing that everyone here is telling you that you're doing are you willing because you want to be a better person. We all have sides to us we have loving caring giving compassionate understanding attentiveness to us but we also have anxiety irritability anger unforgiveness resentment bitterness pridefulness lustfulness gluttony greed laziness. Curtis most of them are doing what they're doing because they feel controlled and as a result of it rebellious. Heres something unimaginable your ex wife is sleeping with three different guys right? you know it's sinful you know it stands against the marriage and you know that it's not of God ordained ways. Morally Incorrect and you know it. Do you still think you can be happy for her and those circumstances if she's happy? Do you still think you can love her even though you know she's making the wrong decisions? Do you think you can let her go to let her learn for herself? House silent do you think you can be to let her learn for herself? I've learned that God is silent in our lives and he lets us stay stuck in sin we choose it until we learn not to anymore.

Here is my self-admitted hypocrisy. I smoke cigarettes forgetful and patience I sometimes have an angry side I'm lost will and sometimes attached. I don't move or change fast enough because I let my emotions rule me instead of just doing what needs to be done consistent basis. the choice is more important than the outcome because without making those right choices we forever remain stuck. The positive or negative feelings we result from those choices are just that results. let her choices change you let the lack of her change you let your circumstances in your suffering change you use it as a catalyst to become more self-aware and move upward in action Mind and Spirit. Even then they are still in the dark. We have to leave them there it's their choice is there free will. Make your peace with where they are in life and who they are and let them go and forgive them for it. I have to get to work I'll add more later

[IHCLACS]

Curt,

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................................I don't think we are cracking your code.........................................................................................

You are stuck in a loop. How do we get Curtis out of this loop.
Either Curtis is not reading our post and understanding them OR Curtis is not listening and actively applying the advice he has been given.

I have to be really harsh here. This is my soldier side coming out.

YOUR WIFE LEFT YOU BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T LISTEN TO HER, YOU WERE CONTROLLING, OBSESSIVE, AND PASSIVE/AGGRESSIVE.

Your replied to every person's post to explain why you are right, won't wrong, or have fixed whatever issue they called out===========OBSESSIVE

You are still snooping, even if it was three weeks ago, you have been knowing about not snooping for months=CONTROLLING

She's telling you she didn't won't to go to R-ville and she's don't won't the relationship. You are sending her information about being in a M=============NOT LISTENING.

How have you changed. You can try and convince yourself, but that won't fly here. We are here to tell you the truth. You WW is running from you and at this point, I can see why, you are not an attractive person. Actually you are very unattractive.

STOP BEING UNATTRACTIVE CURTIS PLEASE......This is my softer side.

Joejoe

JoeJoe is right in every aspect. Now you can GIVE THE APPEARANCES OF LETTING GO by going NC. In attempt to manipulate your W back. Try to reconcile, and be back to square 1 internally because you didn't actually make the changes. (They can smell this.) OR...YOU CAN ACTUALLY LET GO, HAVE IT BENEFIT YOU IN THE FORM OF CHANGE and be at peace with yourself. Alone and single. From my experience. People typically don't make changes, or don't have enough progression of those changes unless they are alone and single. This is what some refer to as. "Finding themselves." We have to be whole to be a healthy partner. I've noticed the only time most of us are typically whole is when we are single. Why? Because we have no one else to focus on but ourselves, all the good the bad and the ugly. There is no way we can change for anyone else unless its for ourselves, it doesn't last and it doesn't stick because of the shifting focus. Who you were didn't work, who they were or who they became didn't work. Or at best it worked with limitation.

[ovrrnbw]

When are we getting an update C? Whatcha been doin?

[curtis7]

Curtis,

Why are you here? Are you just using the posters as a sounding board or do you really and truly want to save your marriage and have your wife return to the marriage? If you want to try to save your marriage, then you need to open your ears and listen to what the posters have been advising you for many weeks. Open your eyes and look around you. What you've been doing isn't working...so try something different.

I drafted the following response to this question back in December but felt it was unnecessary to post:

Job, good question. I initially came here to save my MR. Then a few months later when my W fell hard into WW, I lost hope. I kept posting to potentially provide insight to others on what doesn’t work. Lately, there were a few positive signs where my W showed some interest in actually being around me or at least the family. W joined me at a few Xmas parties. We went and had a pretty good time. Took a few couples pictures in the photobooth that was setup. W got close and pressed her cheek against mine in one of them. We were among the last to leave the party.

I felt that things were trending in a better direction than they ever had since BD. Thought I had a realistic shot at R and becoming one of the rare success stories. If that does happen, it will show that the LBS should keep searching for what works and trust their gut. What worked for others certainly doesn’t work for all. Who knows, perhaps I did a poor job of explaining things. If it doesn’t work out, that’s okay, I will survive and I’m confident that I will meet someone in the future that will love and appreciate me for who I’ve become and not cheat on me.

There are so many posters here that love to criticize the LBS. I feel most have good intentions and are trying to recommend what has worked for others in the past and what prevents the LBS from getting hurt again. However, I think many like to pile on without understanding the details of the sitch. For instance, I laid out a synopsis of what happened over the course of 7 weeks during which 2 R talks transpired. The replies of several posters made it seem like these R talks were pressure applied by me almost back to back. Also, 3 weeks of no snooping is significant from where I was at previously. Many posters imply that I am still snooping. I have no intention of snooping again, but several people here don’t choose to accept that.

Don’t get me wrong, I think 2x4’s are needed on occasion. However, when the LBS receives 10 replies that are all basically saying the same thing it becomes excessive. I appreciate a few of the posters that can empathize with how difficult all of this is and actually offer words of encouragement.

A good portion of my sitch plays out like a soap opera and I thought some would get enjoyment of keeping up with the latest developments no matter how painful it might be for me. I used this forum to vent on occasion and release some of the pain and frustration. I can do that just as easily in my own private journal.

I have decided to refrain from posting on my sitch until a major development occurs. There is plenty of advice in my 7 threads thus far that I can read again to reinforce where I have gone astray and what the vets recommend. I plan to return and provide an update either when D is imminent or when my W has decided to R and I can move to the Piecing forum. So long for now.

[curtis7]

The previous post was not intended to offend anyone. I value the majority of the input I’ve received here. It was just an indication of where I was at the time. This thread is about to reach its limit so I will start a new one for my next update.