Navigating EA and Limbo (#2)

[Newbie20]

OMG. What a load of stinking horse manure. He'll learn.

[may22]

Another question and advice needed.

One thing that has been really bothering me all this time is vacations. We all love to travel and I think he is incapable of planning a family vacation as it feels too much like pretending or whatever. We had a week in August with no coverage for the girls and I had been playing with all these ideas of places to go and he was being weird and not interested... he ended up booking a cabin not far from our house for a few nights (not a real trip I think in his mind) and it was the night we got home from that that he BD'd me about the affair.

Anyway, the girls have a two week break around Christmas and I really don't want to waste the opportunity to do something fun with them. I haven't brought it up (pressure) but if it has come up in conversation I've said I thought we should go somewhere fun. I had been forwarding him cheap ticket email alerts but he never responded so I stopped.

Then he decided to sign our D9's team up for a soccer tournament the weekend between Xmas and New Years-- he had mentioned it to me a couple of times, I said I had wanted to possibly go somewhere during that time frame and then didn't pursue the conversation. He then texted me last week that he was "really compelled to do the tournament and didn't want to let the team down".

I was totally triggered but waited to respond and then said "OK. Do you want to talk about it? Sounds like it is important to you and I'm sure D9 and the team will enjoy it. For me, I feel like I don't have a lot of opportunity to take fun time off with the kids, they are out of school and I have the vacation time, which I won't have if I leave this job (at least not immediately). That is where I'm coming from. But it would be possible to do both-- take the following week off. Maybe we can talk about it tonight." (Oh yeah, have I mentioned that my job is totally coming apart at the seams? When it rains it pours!!)

He responded with some nice texts saying we should prioritize fun for me and the girls and then later in person said he didn't necessarily even need to be at the tournament, the assistant coach could handle-- I was like whatever, or we have the whole next week. Felt like a nice compromise to me, but we hadn't really talked about it again and I've been kind of avoiding it because it does seem like pressure.

Finally over the weekend I started thinking maybe I would just plan a trip for me and the girls and he would be welcome to come, or not... but I want to live my life and feel like sitting around at home for a week because I'm scared about the effect it will have on him is stupid. We were at a party on Sunday with a bunch of other families and he says hey what do you think about (city) on December 28? Oh wait, that is the tournament day... I said well we could go afterwards (though that city wasn't exactly my first choice) and he was like no, I was thinking for me-- his football team has a bowl game. I rolled my eyes and said to the friends around me that OMG, this was so annoying, I've been trying to put together a trip for that week and he never wants to talk about it and now he just wants to go to an f-ing bowl game. Not me at my best (he was right there and everyone laughed at him) but I was super annoyed.

Then today he comes up and wants my advice— he needs to spend $200 in actual tickets to secure his airline status for next year or could pay $450. He was like, "I want to pay, I think it is totally worth it for me (I beg to differ but kept my mouth shut) OR, I was thinking I could just take a cheap flight somewhere between now and Dec 31 to get the miles." I said OK.

Then he goes “or, these two weeks coming up while I have the kids I could take them...” and I was immediately FURIOUS. (Also the first week is CHRISTMAS.) I cut him off and just said NO. He said in a really hostile voice whatever, forget it. He was super annoyed that I wouldn’t even talk about it, and this is something that has been a major issue for us (and was brought up extensively on Sunday— that I don’t let him talk, everything we do is my idea, our entire marriage has been lived by my rules, blah blah blah.)

He huffed off to his office, I took a few deep breaths and did a 180— went to him and apologized for not letting him finish. I guess in an ideal world I would have asked him what he was trying to say first but I told him that I was bothered because I had expressed to him that I was really hoping to do something fun with the kids that week and that I had in fact been thinking about just planning something for me and the girls since he didn’t seem interested.

He apologized and acknowledged the vacation time thing. He asked what I had been thinking, I told him a couple of ideas, he extrapolated on one of them (I could take D7 earlier and he could join with D9 after the tournament). I said sure, maybe. He said he had actually just been thinking he would fly with the girls for a day and then turn around and come back. I said that doesn’t make any sense, why would you pay for their tickets to do that (and have the kids on a plane for 10 hours in two days for no reason) and he said yes, of course, I don’t know what I was thinking. (Just another example of his insane thought processing right now.)

So. What to do next? I had kind of come to the place of either planning a short trip just for me and the girls and inviting him to come if he wanted. Or I’d also resigned myself to NOT going anywhere, that if the pressure of a vacation is too much, maybe it is worthwhile in the long haul to have not taken advantage of this possible vacation time in order to preserve the possibility of our R.

If I planned something just for me and the girls and invited him to come if he wanted, I’m pretty sure he would accept, but then the result is basically the same as pressuring him into a family trip. (And truthfully up until now, I have wanted a family trip more for what it represented— an illusion of commitment, one last fun family trip as a family of four, the fantasy that it would show him what he’d be missing if he left, and somehow to be completely honest I also feel like it sticks it to the AP a bit, showing her that we are still a family and he’s choosing to spend his time with us, and maybe that would cause her to back off.)

Now, I’m confused about what to do. If I only worry about myself and what would make me happy, I’d plan a trip. But it might not end up being the best DB-ing strategy. Any advice?

[KristinG]

Plan that trip girl! H is welcome to come, but leave it at that and leave it to him to procure his own ticket/travel to join. You said 3 different times above that if you were worrying about yourself and what you want that you would go - so GO! Obviously, work with H to coordinate schedules with the girls and not infringe on his time with them during break, but start planning none the less. And don't beat yourself up too much for losing it emotionally at the party, we've all been there.

[wooba]

I second what KristinG said. I’m actually in the same boat as you. But my problem is that I’ve so been emotionally drained that I don’t know if I can actually plan a vacation..lol. If I do plan something, I also plan on leaving the invite open as a courtesy to him. Honestly I know I’d enjoy a vaca better without H around.

[Caligirl]

Believe nothing of what they say and only half of what they do

He’s in fantasy land . Saying you are going to live next door to each other - non sense . Keep it short and simple . We can be cordial when needed for the children . You are like me . A talker . Just zip it up a bit . So hard !!!

Has he yet to make any move on moving out ?


I find the pillow thing interesting. It’s like his tester . I’ll put in on the bed . Take it in my office to sleep . I’m cold so I’m coming in the bed . Seems more like he’s baiting you to see how you react . Waiting for a nasty response so he has his reason to leave . Funny he got in bed when he thought you were a bit short with your good morning .

If he brings up moving out say if that is what you feel will make you happy I will not stand in your way . Smile and walk away .

As far as separation . You will protect yourself and the children . I would not give him much more .

For now - pull way back . Get busy and get even happier . Smile a lot and pay little attention to his craziness.

[Caligirl]

I would book the trip without him . Let him know you booked it . If he wants to join he can join .

[may22]

Nothing much to report. Doing *ok* at DBing but not perfect in my behaviors. Struggling on the detachment front again

Was *pretty* good on texts yesterday--did respond relatively quickly to a confirmation text that I was picking up the kids, and added that I was at home btw. He texted back why? and when I didn't respond for a few minutes called (internet wasn't working at work so I came to work from home). He said he just wanted to make sure there wasn't anything wrong (he ALWAYS has an excuse for why he calls me). I probably didn't need to add where I was-- definitely did that to get a reaction. Oh well.

I picked up the kids from school and took them to Christmas shopping and out to dinner. We had a blast, though I had this low-level anxiety in the back of my mind the whole time. I hate that I am unable to be 100% present for them right now-- this is something I really want to work on, getting the joy back of being 100% in the moment with them and letting the anxiety of what is happening to our family go since it is out of my control.

I did keep them out a bit later than necessary, thinking it would be good to bring them home after he was back from a meeting. He called me at 8:10 pm asking if we were on our way home, I said yes... he said OK, he waited until 8 to call but then decided to call to make sure everything was OK. (excuse again.) Turned out he had been home since 7:15, which he told me rather pointedly. He is rarely home by himself without the kids in the evenings, because we're either all together or he's the one with them at practice or whatever. I'm guessing it didn't feel great.

He watched TV and I did online Christmas shopping-- he came and sat close to me to review the purchases and stayed there for a bit. I went to bed early, he came in to get ready for bed, woke me up (and I laid there totally wondering if he was going to get in bed or not) then he went into the office. I tried to go back to sleep for awhile and couldn't. I did then go into his office and say if he's going to sleep there and go to bed after me, to please get his sh*t out of the bedroom and use the bathroom before I go to bed so he doesn't wake me up. he was like... that doesn't seem like a new problem (like why is that an issue all of a sudden)? I said because it wakes me up and I don't know where you are going to sleep, and then it is hard for me to get back to sleep. he said OK. I know I shouldn't have done this. Baby steps.

So now. I did start planning a vacation and looking at tickets, etc. The problem is the place that would make the most sense to go-- where I've been talking about with him on and off for the past few months-- would be weird to go without him for a number of reasons, and given his need to take a trip somewhere it feels a lot like I'm just doing this to secure a family vacation. I looked into alternate locations but nothing really makes sense from a $$ perspective, plus it would exclude him completely because he needs to fly on a particular airline to get his miles. UGH.

And for me and my detachment-- I feel one step forward, two steps back. Still desperately holding onto hope that he'll choose his family over the AP. It really isn't even about me... I just can't imagine how he could possibly choose to hurt the children like this if he decides to go. That feels unforgivable to me. Yet he feels like I only want to make it work for the children and only want to make it work with him because of them-- he just happens to be the man standing in front of me.

I just posted on U's thread about waiting until after Christmas to deal with this, and I'm going to try to do the same (excepting whatever the decisions might be about the potential vacation). I just want to be able to not have this on my mind all the time. How I get there is not totally clear to me right now. I ping pong between deep breathing and reminding myself I can't control him, I don't need him to be happy-- then a few minutes later panic and anger and praying that AP will find love with someone else and leave H alone or that H will somehow realize that he doesn't want to be this person. GALing is also hard right now because we have so many family commitments together.

[may22]

Question-- I've been toying with the idea today of asking him to just put this all on hold until after the holidays-- can he commit to NC through the holidays and we just focus on giving our kids a great Christmas?

Or should I just s*ck it up and not say anything unless he starts an R talk? The main reason I want the above is to manage my own anxiety, but asking him for it just demonstrates my own anxiety to him... at the same time, taking the pressure off could help. The last time we did this (agreed to just concentrate on being friends) things got a lot better, but he was unable to stick to NC with AP (and didn't tell me since he wants to pretend she isn't really the issue).

Also, I think the week with my whole family was honestly really damaging and he withdrew a lot. He said one thing that week taught him is that he wouldn't be missed. I feel like the more distance we can get from that the better before digging back into all of this. I know his IC is pressuring him to make a decision and he feels like his mental health is suffering in this limbo.

[wooba]

Question-- I've been toying with the idea today of asking him to just put this all on hold until after the holidays-- can he commit to NC through the holidays and we just focus on giving our kids a great Christmas?

I would say no. What happens when he fails to meet the commitment? In asking you'd be relying on him to follow through with something that he already shows problems with. I wouldn't give him that power.

The main reason I want the above is to manage my own anxiety, but asking him for it just demonstrates my own anxiety to him... at the same time, taking the pressure off could help. The last time we did this (agreed to just concentrate on being friends) things got a lot better, but he was unable to stick to NC with AP (and didn't tell me since he wants to pretend she isn't really the issue).

You answered yourself. He was unable to stick to NC - what makes you think it'd be different this time? If he agrees it'd only make your feel better temporarily, relieving you of your anxiety temporarily - at the cost of giving him power to fail you again.

The holiday season is tough. Christmas is around the corner, but for me it feels like if I rely on what he's doing/feeling/planning then things are in flux EVERYDAY. I bought the children's presents & wrapped them myself. All without expecting him/waiting for him to be involved (we used to at least wrap the presents together). At this point I realized it's pointless to even think that "H will do what's best for the kids" - because his actions already proved that it's not true. I'm counting on what I have control over, and H is definitely not part of the equation.

[may22]

The holiday season is tough. Christmas is around the corner, but for me it feels like if I rely on what he's doing/feeling/planning then things are in flux EVERYDAY. I bought the children's presents & wrapped them myself. All without expecting him/waiting for him to be involved (we used to at least wrap the presents together). At this point I realized it's pointless to even think that "H will do what's best for the kids" - because his actions already proved that it's not true. I'm counting on what I have control over, and H is definitely not part of the equation.

Woosa, you're good. I'm really impressed. It seems like you've really dropped all your expectations with your H. I am definitely doing better with that than I was, but I'm still not there.

I almost feel it would be easier if he just made up his mind and actually left-- then at least I could have clearer rules to follow. It was only recently when I began to actually believe he might really do it that I have started down the detachment path.

Also, I hate this this limbo stage where he hasn't decided to actually leave, even though it is clear that is the direction he wants to go, but he hasn't actually said or done it yet. He could also move down to the basement (we have a studio down there for guests) instead of just sleeping in the office which would be a pretty easy step for him to do at any given time, but he hasn't taken that yet either. It has definitely been mentioned over this whole time frame as something he's thinking about, but he can't seem to pull the trigger. Anyway. All that to say this is a sh**ty situation to be in. I guess in the long term it is better than him actually walking out and I should be grateful for the gift of time, but it is soooo hard to manage myself through it.

What if I dropped the NC request and just said can we put a hold on R talks or decisions until after the holidays? He can stay in the office, I won't wonder every night if this is the night he is going to come back-- but I also won't be worried every night we sit down on the couch after the kids are down that he's going to the next BD and can just focus on the kids. I so desperately want to be able to be present for them right now and my mind just keeps spinning.