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Core #2874996 12/06/19 06:21 PM
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Core, I'ma chime in here, too. I have been exactly where you are at now and you have got to keep yourself from getting carried away by what you saw and what you are feeling and from the guilt you are experiencing for your wife's so-called agony. My wife was in the exact. Same. Place. "I'm dying inside", she said, "I feel so alone and abandoned", "every day I cry on my way in to work."I don't think we were ever happy together".

Now, were either of us, you or I, perfect husband's? Clearly not. But we were also not the completely monstrous and callous failures my wife made me out to be and your wife is currently making you out to be. The truth of the matter is that my and my wife in our situation, and you and your wife in your current situation, walked the path that got you to this point TOGETHER. Marriage is a partnership that requires teamwork and effort by both partiesand you don't reach this point in a relationship without failures and weaknesses on both sides.

Yes, you need to take care of your side of the street, change yourself as a man for the better, etc, and, yes, it is even acceptable to, in a calm, confident, manner, take responsibility and apologize for specific shortcomings and indicate that you know that you need to do better, but you absolutely cannot let your failures lead you to let your wife off the hook for hers. Let yourself go down that path all you're going to do is look beta, and weak, and drive her further and further away. You need to take care of your side of the street right now, and she needs to take care of hers. And given that she is currently in an affair, she has a lot of stuff to take care of. Don't let her off the hook because you feel like you were less than perfect husband. Fix yourself, improve yourself, and leave her to do the same for herself, if she so chooses. And maybe, someday, if you both address your own shortcomings, you will be blessed with the opportunity to reconcile. But rolling over and playing dead because you are taking on full load of guilt for both of you is not going to get you there.

Trust me, I know, I have been there and come out the other side.

Last edited by hoosjim; 12/06/19 06:26 PM.

H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
SteveLW #2874999 12/06/19 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve85
Get ready and get into the bed



Get a good book, make sure you are ready to go to bed BEFORE her. I strongly suggest that you do not sleep "on your side" Pick the middle. Claim you space. You are a CALM, confident alpha male that sleeps wherever he chooses. She can choose to sleep in bed with you.


Listen and validate. Listen like you have to memorize everything she says. Listen like there will be a test on it tomorrow.





"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Core #2875000 12/06/19 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Core
@unchien its crazy not knowing whose feelings I've been experiencing the last few years, mine or hers. Have you gotten through NGS? If so, how long till you saw improvement?

It is a continual process, but I feel I have steadily progressed over the last 8 months. Like most self-improvement, there's a lot of advice out there, and I can tell you what worked and didn't work for me, but ultimately you need to own it and figure out what works for you.

You are in an acute situation. Your fight or flight response is at high alert. But you are not going to die. Your fight/flight response is hindering you. The intensity of your W's emotions creates a giant fog that is hard for you to see through.

You may R, you may D. Accept that either reality may happen, and that it is up to you and you alone to make yourself happy in either scenario. And you CAN do it.

I heard a great quote on a podcast a few months ago: "The universe has a mysterious way of creating situations that force you to address the issues holding you back."

Core #2875014 12/06/19 07:43 PM
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Core, great advice above from LH, Steve, unchien, R2C, Jim and ovr. It's like the who's who of DB vets in here! Read, wait until you regain your composure, and then read it all again.

All the garbage in that "journal" was probably written recently, and falls under the category of "rewriting of history." Instead of turning into an apology machine you should have just listened and validated. "Reading your comments, it sounds like you felt isolated and alone, is that the way I made you feel?" "Yes, blah blah blah" "I am sorry you feel that way, it must be very frustrating." Notice you are not apologizing for anything YOU did, and you are not even agreeing with her. You are listening to her feelings, and validating them. Period. Then you go about your day like nothing happened. Why? BECAUSE NOTHING HAPPENED. All that spew, it is a reflection of how she feels at this moment in time. Her feelings will change in a year, or a month, or a week, or 5 minutes. She loved you, and she changed to not loving you. Guess what, she can change right back again and probably will. My XW and I did not reconcile, but her recent actions consistently express her love for me regardless. She does stuff she would not ever have considered in the months after BD (such as inviting me to her mom's for Thanksgiving for the 2nd year in a row).

You were together 9 years. If you were so horrible, then what kind of an idiot would marry you, much less stay by your side for 9 years. No one, that's who. You've got to understand this- this is all more about a journey that she is going on than it is about you. She doesn't know that yet, but she will learn it eventually. Until then she will blame you and throw shade on you. All you can do is get out of the way.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Core #2875019 12/06/19 08:01 PM
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I would also add to my above comments that, if, somewhere out on the currently unforeseeable horizon, you think you might still want to be married to this woman, you need to find counselors who are "pro marriage", amongst other things. (Goal-oriented is another important attribute). Not all counselor's are. And "Pro marriage" doesn't mean a counselor that is "Everyone MUST stay married because _______________", but, rather, one that is oriented to try to save marriages rather than steer people towards divorce (while of course still recognizing that some marriages are not, in fact, saveable.) MWD devotes some text to this in the DB-ing literature, while also noting that marriage counseling before any and all affairs are ended and, indeed, before both parties (including the WAS) have committed to saving the MR, is premature. IC is of course appropriate at any time, but i would be suspicious of any counselor that, at this point, is pushing you towards divorce.


H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Core,

7. Look for trial memberships, groupons, etc for gym/GAL. It's out there. I assume you meant $14K over budget and not under.

You need to start resistance training, even if it's calisthenics at home. You need to be eating well. How is this coming along? Are you sleeping a whole night?


Great post, thank you. You're correct, we're 14k im the hole on budget this year. As far as sleeping, thats the killer. Even when stuff wasnt going on, W wouldnt get the kids to sleep early no matter how often I asked. Basically the kids go to bed between 10pm-11pm and Im up 530-6 on work days. Zero free time for me, while she sleeps in. Exercising is going well. Done alot of calisthenics to the point where I really do need more resistance. D4 will help me with added resistance. It's quite cute.

Originally Posted by hoosjim
My wife was in the exact. Same. Place. "I'm dying inside", she said, "I feel so alone and abandoned", "every day I cry on my way in to work."I don't think we were ever happy together".

But rolling over and playing dead because you are taking on full load of guilt for both of you is not going to get you there. Trust me, I know, I have been there and come out the other side.


Wow, I was told almost all those same exact things! So I am thinking those sayings, rewriting the past, it what they do to justify their actions, shift blame and alleviate their own guilt. Wise words in your post, nothing good comes from me takimg on all the guilt. I agree on the promarriage counselor comment. I have a good one picked out who has been referred by our church, should W ever go.


Originally Posted by AnotherStander

you should have just listened and validated. "Reading your comments, it sounds like you felt isolated and alone, is that the way I made you feel?" "Yes, blah blah blah" "I am sorry you feel that way, it must be very frustrating." Notice you are not apologizing for anything YOU did, and you are not even agreeing with her. You are listening to her feelings, and validating them. Period. Then you go about your day like nothing happened. Why? BECAUSE NOTHING HAPPENED. All that spew, it is a reflection of how she feels at this moment in time. Her feelings will change in a year, or a month, or a week, or 5 minutes. She loved you, and she changed to not loving you. Guess what, she can change right back again and probably will. My XW and I did not reconcile, but her recent actions consistently express her love for me regardless. She does stuff she would not ever have considered in the months after BD (such as inviting me to her mom's for Thanksgiving for the 2nd year in a row).


AS, You're right in that I should've done nothing but validate. I swear its like learning to speak a new language. What you said about feelings changing again struck home, it was killing me thinking she could just permanently erase or rewrite our times together and if she were to always blame me, I question what she would tell the kids when they are older.


H37, W37
D4, S2
ILYBNILWY 9/19
BD 9/19
EA discovered 10/19
Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
Core #2875114 12/07/19 12:56 PM
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Back to sleeping arrangements. I'd love to follow R2Cs advice and just hop in to bed before W. The roadblock is D4 and S1 whom need a full bedtime routine, soothing etc. I'd have to neglect them and leave all duties on W to get them to bed.
If I'm getting S1 to sleep, W is taking D4 in to the actual MBR bed. If I hop in and an argument occurs, D4 is right there.

Add to this, W called me extreme for having D4 sleep in D4s room with W instead of MBR. She says I know they'd be uncomfortable but I did it anyway. Then she said I was extreme for asking how they slept the next day. W advised this supposed extremeness is why she wants to D. I had some emotion to my voice as I was sad that D4 didnt want me to get her to sleep that night but thats about it.

I'm being watched and judged like a hawk. So this all being said, I still should take MBR back? Seem I would push us to D quicker as she's now mentioned its a hot point. What are some additional ways I can get respect back?

After thinking through what to do with the current situation of living with S while shes most likely talking to OM, I determined my hands are tied. I can't boot her out, nor can I boot myself out. Coexisting with this seems like the only option and each day of limbo feels shameful. The journal I came across is still in plain sight like it meant for me to read. I think one of the entries is her now questioning her R with OM though only one person knows what she means.

If we can't have R talks per DB rules, I just stay in limbo here?


H37, W37
D4, S2
ILYBNILWY 9/19
BD 9/19
EA discovered 10/19
Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
Core #2875119 12/07/19 02:19 PM
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I also found a picture of W and OM mixed in our xmas decorations, hidden right under our wedding pictures. Feels so cold, hurtful and I may be overthinking it but it seems purposeful, like maybe she wants me to confront the issue again or see if I get jealous/stand up. As what helped get us to this point...I cant read her mind. Its weird as she hasn't initiated one R chat since BD.


H37, W37
D4, S2
ILYBNILWY 9/19
BD 9/19
EA discovered 10/19
Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
Core #2875138 12/07/19 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Core
I also found a picture of W and OM mixed in our xmas decorations, hidden right under our wedding pictures. Feels so cold, hurtful and I may be overthinking it but it seems purposeful, like maybe she wants me to confront the issue again or see if I get jealous/stand up. As what helped get us to this point...I cant read her mind. Its weird as she hasn't initiated one R chat since BD.

Core ~

I will let the other vets comment on handling OM situations.

Two comments:

1. Your W is building a rocket ship to exit the Earth's atmosphere (i.e., your MR). She wants to absolutely guarantee she has enough fuel to make it. ANYTHING you say or do will be twisted, distorted, reframed, etc. to generate fuel. There's a lot of other planets and stars out there and all she knows is she wants off Earth. It's all noise. This is why you detach -- ignore her reactions, because almost anything you do or say that does not demonstrate detachment will be extra fuel.

You live together and have kids. There are constantly situations which she can use to create fuel. You can't control it. That is hard.

You can't control whether she launches the rocket.

There are things you can control: You.

- Don't make a decision based on how you think she will react.
- Don't make a decision because you are frustrated or angry or think she isn't being fair.
- DO make decisions that you feel confident about regardless of all the noise and fog surrounding you.

2. Think of all the "accidental" journal and picture findings and barbed comments as bait. Your W is baiting you. The more you react, the more you are taking the bait. You take the bait, you have a negative interaction... she just increased her fuel supply.

Of course there are situations that arise that you do need to address. I would bet more often than not the right approach is not to take the bait. The picture of W and OM is bait. Don't bite.

Core #2875161 12/07/19 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Core
Back to sleeping arrangements. I'd love to follow R2Cs advice and just hop in to bed before W. The roadblock is D4 and S1 whom need a full bedtime routine, soothing etc. I'd have to neglect them and leave all duties on W to get them to bed.
If I'm getting S1 to sleep, W is taking D4 in to the actual MBR bed. If I hop in and an argument occurs, D4 is right there.

Add to this, W called me extreme for having D4 sleep in D4s room with W instead of MBR. She says I know they'd be uncomfortable but I did it anyway. Then she said I was extreme for asking how they slept the next day. W advised this supposed extremeness is why she wants to D. I had some emotion to my voice as I was sad that D4 didnt want me to get her to sleep that night but thats about it.

I'm being watched and judged like a hawk. So this all being said, I still should take MBR back? Seem I would push us to D quicker as she's now mentioned its a hot point. What are some additional ways I can get respect back?

After thinking through what to do with the current situation of living with S while shes most likely talking to OM, I determined my hands are tied. I can't boot her out, nor can I boot myself out. Coexisting with this seems like the only option and each day of limbo feels shameful. The journal I came across is still in plain sight like it meant for me to read. I think one of the entries is her now questioning her R with OM though only one person knows what she means.

If we can't have R talks per DB rules, I just stay in limbo here?


Dude and dudettes, I'm being killed here. Do you have any more advice on the above or the following? Here's whats murdering me today. My parents went through a similar situation albeit when I was older. I couldnt forgive my parent who strayed. My W knows about this and said she'd never do the same. I've suffered massive loss in my family, basically just had two close relative left by the age 23. My best friend died in our teens. I just started therapy for ptsd and anxiety for these issues when W dropped the bomb.

I am trapped! I cant kick out my kids mom and babysitter, yet I cannot abandon the kids either. All I wanted in life was this family. To feel some peace. So I cant kick her out and I have to stay. I dont believe she is filing yet for D nor is she looking for a job. We have only two family members total who live here. Neither will watch the kids more than a couple hours at a time. As she as stay at home now, I would need her to get a job before there is any chance at getting out of limbo and its one year waiting for daycare/preschool. I feel forced to sit here and become my Ws friend for the kids. All knowing she is going to abandon the marriage at anytime. Whenever her agenda is complete. I've got no power here and none I can take back at least I feel that way. Im struggling mentally knowing I lost my W, my dreams and most of what made me happy. What made me get up in the morning. My son walked for the first time and I was more sad than happy, knowing I'll miss many of these moments. W is acting like we are chums. I don't want to be friends in any outcome. What in the world can I do besides the DB rules, 180s? I cant get much of a life with such young kids D4, S1. I'm sure OM is still in the picture and here my W and I are, sitting over dinner every night only talking to the kids. Maybe saying good night. This is a living h3ll or at least purgatory.

Last edited by job; 12/07/19 11:46 PM. Reason: edited language

H37, W37
D4, S2
ILYBNILWY 9/19
BD 9/19
EA discovered 10/19
Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
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