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I totally understand not wanting to be the one to push D forward. I don't have any sage advice for you, but maybe look into a legal/financial separation? I'm sure the vets will chime in with some great thoughts. One thing I'll mention that I have noticed throughout the last couple of months is that although w is not receptive to your opinions, your ability to listen and have good communication has greatly improved. Maybe the counseling is beneficial? I get being frustrated though.

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U,

There is no unwritten rule that says you canít push D forward if it benefits you. AS did it. Others have too. I actually applaud people who do iron their own terms.

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Originally Posted by LH19
There is no unwritten rule that says you canít push D forward if it benefits you. AS did it. Others have too. I actually applaud people who do iron their own terms.


Yes I agree with LH. None of us comes here wanting D, that's for sure. But the thing is, we are hanging onto who our wives -used- to be, not who they are now. The woman I fell in love with and married was someone I would never have divorced in a million years. But something happened to that woman, she changed into someone else. What I was clinging to was the hope that it was temporary and she would "get well" and we could go back to normal. At some point you'll realize she's probably not ever going to be that person again though. So then the question is this- do you want to be married to the person she is NOW? The answer for me was a definite "no".

So now it's been 9 years since my BD. My old W never has come back. She is more like her old self, but not her old self. I enjoy spending time with her and the kids, but she's not who I loved for so long, and she's not someone I would want to be married to. I love her like you love a relative- an aunt or cousin maybe.

So give that some thought. Are you clinging to a marriage to someone who doesn't exist anymore? And may never exist again? Do you even want to be married to who she is now?


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Hey U -

Probably best to try and simplify everything as much as possible, if possible.

Face your fears (as you once said to me) smile

Do you want to sell the house?
Do you want to continue going to counseling?
Will pushing D forward help you or hurt you?
Do you even want to push D forward?

There are always options, but you have to decide what you want first -

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KG ~ You are right that counseling has improved our communication. Most of what we cover is obvious... only text about logistics, set an agenda before a call, etc. My W tends to slip a lot on some of the simple guidelines, so the sessions help bring her back. I don't find myself learning much though. I listen and validate while my W periodically BD's me (calling me a "violent person" for instance). There is at least one mini-BD per session.

If I have an item to discuss at C, we usually pay it lip service. My W will roll her eyes, or huff and puff as if I'm complaining. So I rarely go into C with an agenda at this point. Her issues receive full attention. I'm not sure if this is the C recognizing that the more attention she receives, the smoother things go between us. I feel like these sessions are not give-and-take... they are mostly me validating, listening.

I don't know why my W wants to keep going. I think she feels safe in C to raise her concerns: for instance, our son's behavioral issues (and her speculation that I was to blame!). Sometimes I think we need to take the training wheels off and learn to navigate this process on our own. Maybe I am enabling my W by continuing to go to C.

LH, AS ~ I would not want to be M'ed to my W as she is right now. She is not the person I thought she was. And I don't think this is a matter of her getting well. I wouldn't want her to be her old self -- she would need to be a new self, someone capable of having difficult conversations (for one) with an open mind and an open heart. Even her old self was not capable. It just turned out as long as I went along with her needs, things were fairly smooth.

But then I think about people like IronWill here. He is incredibly resolute and patient. What prevents me from continuing on?

Am I wearing gray-colored glasses, or am I seeing clearly now?

Something I need to think about...

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Hi U,

A suggestion-- can you let the financial stuff go until after the holidays? I feel like Christmas etc is ALWAYS stressful no matter what with so much stuff to do, and then throw in all the anxiety of being S and the impact of that on the children during this time that is supposed to be so magical and fun... I wonder if that is adding to your frustration and anxiety and pushes you towards wanting some movement.

I also ask if bringing up selling the house is more about how she might react than about the actual $$ (not that it isn't a serious issue)-- since she seems to be OK in the current situation, pushing on the financial front would be a dose of reality for her? Not that reality isn't a bad thing, but I wonder if you're subconsciously wanting her to feel more of the hurt of what is happening. And, with her history of painting you as an unfit dad, I wouldn't want to necessarily add something major to her plate during this already super stressful time since she's liable to respond more poorly than she would otherwise-- and that could potentially impact her attitude towards your time with the kids. (As well as how well she's able to parent them.)

Anyway, just wondering if you can figure out how to put this all to the side until after the holidays. A few weeks won't really matter in the long term and it takes some of the pressure off. Freaking your W out and/or filing at Christmas just doesn't seem like a good idea in the long term. I'm thinking about this myself-- focusing 100% on giving my kids the best Christmas and holiday I possibly can. They're only this age once.

(Funny how advice is so much easier to give to other people than to implement oneself!) wink You're doing great.


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Originally Posted by IronWill


Face your fears (as you once said to me) smile

Do you want to sell the house?
Do you want to continue going to counseling?
Will pushing D forward help you or hurt you?
Do you even want to push D forward?

There are always options, but you have to decide what you want first -


Do you want to sell the house?

I want a fair financial situation. I am indifferent about the house. I talk about selling the house b/c I think my W will not be able to afford the mortgage once we have a fair financial situation.

Do you want to continue going to counseling?

Hmmm... No. I want to go to mediation. However I worry my W may regress if we stop counseling.

Will pushing D forward help you or hurt you?

It will help me be on more stable footing financially. And I will feel more secure having a legal parenting plan in place.

It will hurt me in the sense my W will feel I wanted it. It will feel final. It's not ultimately what I want, although I feel I need to face reality here.

Do you even want to push D forward?

I still wish we could work on the MR. But given my current circumstances, waiting in limbo is not healthy for me or my kids. I guess that's my point here... I'd like to change the circumstances so that I could wait. As it stands, we are living this pseudo-D'd lifestyle which is not really a D because I am financially supporting the whole thing (and having less parenting time with my kids than I want).

~~~

What I really want to do is communicate to my W that:

- I don't want a D. I want to work on the MR.
- She has shown zero willingness to work on the MR throughout our 6 month separation, going to C, etc.
- In the meantime, I need to protect myself financially and as a parent. I see no option other than D (or legal S, although I consider that equivalent).

I know DB would suggest I pare that down. And ultimately I don't think it matters if I communicate any of the above. It's just how I feel.

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Originally Posted by may22
Hi U,

A suggestion-- can you let the financial stuff go until after the holidays? I feel like Christmas etc is ALWAYS stressful no matter what with so much stuff to do, and then throw in all the anxiety of being S and the impact of that on the children during this time that is supposed to be so magical and fun... I wonder if that is adding to your frustration and anxiety and pushes you towards wanting some movement.

I also ask if bringing up selling the house is more about how she might react than about the actual $$ (not that it isn't a serious issue)-- since she seems to be OK in the current situation, pushing on the financial front would be a dose of reality for her? Not that reality isn't a bad thing, but I wonder if you're subconsciously wanting her to feel more of the hurt of what is happening. And, with her history of painting you as an unfit dad, I wouldn't want to necessarily add something major to her plate during this already super stressful time since she's liable to respond more poorly than she would otherwise-- and that could potentially impact her attitude towards your time with the kids. (As well as how well she's able to parent them.)

Anyway, just wondering if you can figure out how to put this all to the side until after the holidays. A few weeks won't really matter in the long term and it takes some of the pressure off. Freaking your W out and/or filing at Christmas just doesn't seem like a good idea in the long term. I'm thinking about this myself-- focusing 100% on giving my kids the best Christmas and holiday I possibly can. They're only this age once.

(Funny how advice is so much easier to give to other people than to implement oneself!) wink You're doing great.

Hi may ~

I TOTALLY give other people better advice than I follow myself wink I think we all are guilty of that.

I'm okay pushing out the financial stuff until after Christmas. Technically we agreed to move forward over 2 months ago, so what's another few weeks.

I also worry about how she will react to the financial issues. But I've tried not to let fear control me, as part of my DB self-improvement plan.

I hope she CAN keep the house. I just don't see how she will be able to do it while satisfying her goal of working 1 day per week. My empathy for her situation should not override my own needs for a fair financial situation.

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Do you think it is possible that she was partially pushing the custody issue in order to get enough $$ in child support to keep the house/lifestyle? I would worry that it might flare up again once she sees the full picture. Not sure what the situation is like in your state though.


Me (46) H (42)
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