Weathering the Storm

[kml]

Funny how everyone sees it a little differently. I was thinking that Coconut might have been feeling a little put out because he was expecting a ROMANTIC weekend and really would like it to be something MORE than FWB.

So which is it, Coconut - you secretly wish the relationship would turn into more, or you're just put out that she didn't put out?

And I agree, if some guy told me he didn't want to be intimate because I was on my period, I'd interpret that to mean no hanky panky. (Also, bear in mind, if she was having cramps/pain she may not have felt very interested in sex.)

[Coconut]

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If I was fooling around with someone and they told me they didn't want to be intimate while I was on my cycle (your phrasing), then I would not initiate anything at any point while I was on it. My reason for that response is that "being intimate" to me means a lot of different things.

poor choice of words on my part, we were somewhat intimate (kissing, rubbing, etc.) Thursday and Friday night, but sex is what I said I didn’t want to do.

What I'm wondering, though, based on the information that you gave is, would it have made a difference if y'all weren't on this trip so you were basically forced (for lack of a better word) to stay together or is it maybe that the trip, itself, was a bigger step than you anticipated and now it is seeming like more than you thought?

I don’t think the trip made a difference, we had a lot of fun together. The only difference having her on the trip is that taking care of the sexual frustration myself would have been a little awkward.

You told her then you didn't want to be intimate and then carried on with your trip, effectively making y'all stuck in the same room for 2 nights (Fri and Sat). I have had FWB relationships before and never have I gone on a weekend get-away with one of them, so I'm wondering if that might be affecting your thinking?

that’s why I opened up with we are more like dating. We are not in a R because of where she is at in life (still married for another 6 months or so, working through her divorce), while we keep some space when we aren’t around each other, we do see each other pretty frequently and always make dates or activities of it when we see each other. It’s not a come over and chill thing.

Why are you questioning continuing to see her? I'm not sure I'm drawing a logical conclusion between lack of sex and stopping seeing her when you are only spending a night together roughly once a week. Sorry I am rambling but so many questions...…………...LOL

I think because until now, I always felt there was a possibility of a LTR once she got her life together. But now I’m not sure that I see that, I guess I want someone who is as generous as I am sexually and not just when there is a tit for tat.

I viewed it as going Dutch cause plane tickets weren’t involved and figure hes paying for the hotel anyway, regardless of whether she goes. She paid for all her own meals.

I paid for everything, I was just saying the only additional costs to me were her meals.

I do not look down on FWB. Personally, I wouldn’t have a relationship like that for the reasons you listed and more. But if it works for others, I never judge. I just personally would want more and i can’t sleep with someone casually. Other people view it more openly and as long as both people go in with no expectations and are honest there is absolutely no harm.

this is my first, and likely my last. While in general it has been nice, the truth is that while I have gone on dates with other woman, the thought of having to break it off with this woman (and likely hurting her) has me concerned about liking someone new. So that’s kind of getting in the way of me giving someone else a real chance, it’s like blow my socks off the first time we meet or it’s not worth it. Which isn’t realistic.

All I was saying is that in a FWB type of relationship, it’s not really about investing or giving. So why would he expect her to give if she wasn’t getting pleasure. It’s not like there is love or a relationship. Just like she can’t expect him to find someone else if he’s not happy with the arrangement. There’s no real investment which is the advantage of an arrangement like that.

while we both have agreed that our relationship has no expectation of exclusiveness, we are closer than FWB, we do spend a lot of quality time together. And I’ve done things with no expectation of reciprocity in the past.

And he argues that he’s paying for the trip but Considering meals weren’t included, I would think that her half of the price of a hotel is probably significantly cheaper then a high quality escort without stds. At least he’s gets kissed. So it was a gamble on his part. And he doesn’t have to gamble on her if there are other women out there for him.

Ouch.. there are other woman out there for me, I went on a date 3 weeks ago and someone at work just gave me her number to call her about 30 minutes ago (it was a matchmaking by a co-worker).. I didn’t argue I was paying for the trip, I was just concerned that I might be using that as an excuse to get mad that I didn’t get any.. which I don’t think that’s the reason for being disappointed, but I recognize that it might be.

Coconut, if I’m being totally honest here...... you make it sound like she owes you sex because you paid for her vacation. That sounds a little prostituty.

If I thought she owed me something I would have initiated it and it likely would have happened. What I want is someone who wants to make me happy as much as I want to make them happy sexually.

You kind of make it sound like you only want to be with her if she is having sex with you or giving you some form of pleasure every time.

I would be interested in how you came up with that based on what I said.. but the foundation of our “arrangement” started out as sexual partners, so based on that I guess you could say having sex is expected. But I would have no problem going out with her and then dropping her off at home with no sex involved.. in fact, the whole thing I’m facing is dropping the with benefits part and telling her I just want to be friends..

I bend over backwards not to ever make it look like I expect sex for taking someone, even a FWB, some place. For me the cruise was/is the biggest example - if it happens, great, but just like a first date, because I'm taking someone some place, I'm not expecting "benefits" - it sorta sounds like you are and that's kinda a douche thing to do.

I don’t need to bend over backwards to make it not look like I expect sex with her, she is much more aggressive towards having sex than I am most of the time, frequently implying while we are out how much she is looking forward to getting home, etc..

That's where I'd start - is she on the same page as you? And here's the other thing, the page often turns. Some women use FWB thinking the guy is going to change his mind.

Yes, we are on the same page as far as where we stand, but I think that if the opportunity was there to have a healthy R right now, we would both be on that page.

Can I ask, is this the woman who liked every single picture in the dozen plus photos you posted? If so, I'm wondering if she's not either hoping for more, thinking it was developing to more or something like that.

No, the person who liked most of the pics was an old neighbor I grew up next door to.

So bottom line, for me anyhow, I think you are over the line here towards being a jerk.

Ok, thank you for answering my question straight forward, the reason I posted was because I was being unfair in my expectation.

Perhaps this is what you need to answer for yourself - would you have taken this woman if you knew sex was off the table?

Absolutely, we have a great time together, but I wouldn’t have messed around with her before finding out she was on her cycle and got myself worked up.. I did go into the weekend with an expectation that we would be sexual, but if I knew ahead of time that we wouldn’t I still would have wanted her to come along.

I'm now questioning if I want to keep seeing her. Am I being a jerk for feeling this way?

Yep. Accept that.

fair enough.. as for what i want, i've explained it but basically for someone who is similar to me in the enjoyment of bedroom activities, both giving and receiving.. Which by the way, she is not.. maybe that's my problem, is I've always wished there was more directed to me and this nothing for a whole weekend just caused it to come to a head.

It's gong to require a week long cruise, some jewelry and a new car before you get any more goody.

lol

[Coconut]

Funny how everyone sees it a little differently. I was thinking that Coconut might have been feeling a little put out because he was expecting a ROMANTIC weekend and really would like it to be something MORE than FWB.

So which is it, Coconut - you secretly wish the relationship would turn into more, or you're just put out that she didn't put out?

And I agree, if some guy told me he didn't want to be intimate because I was on my period, I'd interpret that to mean no hanky panky. (Also, bear in mind, if she was having cramps/pain she may not have felt very interested in sex.)

at this point, I remain in our current arrangement because I see a possible future to it. I'm not the type to just have her over for sex and get out, if I was then I guess I could keep the arrangement regardless, but without a possible future to it, i don't want to be in it.

[doodler]

...caused it to come to a head.

Even your metaphors are shouting that you're a cesspool of desire. Self gratification, if done infrequently, will not result in blindness. I have very strong glasses, but my eyes can still be corrected to 20/20 vision.

[Dawn70]

Why are you questioning continuing to see her? I'm not sure I'm drawing a logical conclusion between lack of sex and stopping seeing her when you are only spending a night together roughly once a week. Sorry I am rambling but so many questions...…………...LOL

I think because until now, I always felt there was a possibility of a LTR once she got her life together. But now I’m not sure that I see that, I guess I want someone who is as generous as I am sexually and not just when there is a tit for tat.

I get your point about wanting someone sexually compatible and agree that is very important. I didn't get the sense that this has been an issue before the trip, just based on what you wrote, but maybe it has. Not sure and it doesn't really matter if I get it or not, but I think the thing I do get is importance of sexual compatibility.

You kind of make it sound like you only want to be with her if she is having sex with you or giving you some form of pleasure every time.

I would be interested in how you came up with that based on what I said.. but the foundation of our “arrangement” started out as sexual partners, so based on that I guess you could say having sex is expected. But I would have no problem going out with her and then dropping her off at home with no sex involved.. in fact, the whole thing I’m facing is dropping the with benefits part and telling her I just want to be friends..

I don't want to put words in Ginger's mouth or yours for that matter, but I came up with the very same thing. You said y'all are FWB (which clearly indicates a relationship that is more about sex than anything else), but then you also say it is more like dating because y'all always spend time together and it isn't just a "Netflix and chill" kind of meet-up. You knew Thursday night she wasn't DTF and then were sexually frustrated because of it, so that does kind of sound like you invited her because sex was kind of a sure thing, so to speak.

I bend over backwards not to ever make it look like I expect sex for taking someone, even a FWB, some place. For me the cruise was/is the biggest example - if it happens, great, but just like a first date, because I'm taking someone some place, I'm not expecting "benefits" - it sorta sounds like you are and that's kinda a douche thing to do.

I don’t need to bend over backwards to make it not look like I expect sex with her, she is much more aggressive towards having sex than I am most of the time, frequently implying while we are out how much she is looking forward to getting home, etc..

I guess this is where I am confused, because to read what you wrote, I interpreted the whole thing as y'all see each other very rarely, but when you do, you do some date-like activity. She sleeps over probably once per 3 week period out of the month (your words in original post, maybe slightly paraphrased). You also said in there somewhere that she rarely initiates, but now you say she is aggressive towards sex. I can see where her moods might wax and wane and sometimes she might be the aggressor and sometimes she might not be, but in general, it sounded in the original post like you are usually the one who instigates. You even said here you went into the weekend with the expectation of sex. Now you followed that up with the thought that if you had known sex was off the table, you still would've wanted her to go.

To me, that last part is probably most telling. As a total arm-chair quarterback and an expert on absolutely nothing when it comes to relationships, it seems, at least from my outside perspective looking in, as though you were seeing this as a FWB that might just have the potential to move up the ladder based on the good times y'all have had, but the whole lack of sex might have slapped a little reality in there. Nothing bad in any of that and I actually applaud you for really looking at it seriously and asking hey, am I being a jerk or am I seeing this wrong because certainly not everyone is that introspective. I think it is actually quite supportive of your "nice guy" attitude that you are not automatically putting it all on her, but really examining what you are thinking and feeling too.

Regardless of the outcome, I think you are taking the right approach in really considering all of this.

[Coconut]

Dawn,

I can see why there is confusion, i guess im trying to not get to detailed and the generic statements aren't adding up. I'll say this, she has always been very willing to do anything I initiate, but there is very little that she has ever initiated.

In the case of Oral, i've only asked a few times, because with a woman you do that and still have intercourse, but it takes me a little while to reload or it may just end the night.. to me that feels selfish. I don't want to have to ask every time, she knows i'm a fan and I guess I am dissapointed that she didn't make a move, like I said, i'm pretty sure if I would have initiated it she would have, but that's not what I wanted.. I wanted her to show me that she wanted to do it.

as far as going even if i knew sex was off the table, that is without question true. But when you know sex is off the table, you don't build up the desire, i had been looking forward to spending some quality sexual time with her, it wasn't until after foreplay had started and I ASKED that she told me she was on her cycle. There was a lot of build up before I found out sex was off the table.

[JujuB]

I too got the impression that you were annoyed because she didn’t want to satisfy you when she herself couldn’t be satisfied. But I felt like the annoyance came more from the fact that you spent money and felt like she owed you. Obviously some form of sex is expected on a weekend away.

I think that if this was a relationship, you would have a right to question whether she is meeting your needs. Like what a loving partner she would be if she made sure you felt good when she couldn’t. And she could look at how you treated her. Like if she wasn’t feeling good, were you ok with that?

My point was more that - this isn’t a relationship. It’s a FWB. So it’s viewed different. Both partners are going in knowing they don’t have to give. It’s supposed to be mutually beneficial. But the trip doesn’t pay for sex. Or else it’s monetary exchange. I guess the sex act pays for the sex act in this case. And no one got anything. But on a different occasion (no menstruating) it could still resume as a no strings exchange. But expectations beyond that can’t be brought to the table.

I think in a relationship with love and passion, she would want to do that for you and you wouldn’t think twice about spending money on her because it would make her happy

[Ginger1]

Everything Dawn said. The way it was was written, you were mad you were denied sex because it was expected after you paid for the trip. And in one breath you said she doesn’t feel comfortable initiating and in the next you said she can be aggressive and this isn’t an ongoing issue. You kind of

And as far as her getting you “all geared up” , maybe she likes the foreplay and doesn’t need the sex part.

I think there Are bigger things going on here. As a FWB situation, no one owes anyone anything. No strings attached and that’s the glory of it. You have sex when you want, you don’t when you don’t, you aren’t obligated to anything because you aren’t a couple.

I think you want to be a couple and you are is muddy waters. So you want things as if you are a couple, but intimacy comes with wanting to please your partner. But you aren’t partners.
FWB can be very muddy waters to navigate and make someone gunshy in that area. And often for women, the desire to go after sex comes with intimacy. And you aren’t a couple. So she is pretty much letting you guide the way and I think k you both might be a little afraid of stepping over boundaries that aren’t ver clear

[DonH]

Dang I'm confused - even after reading everything. That sort of tells me then that there is something else going on here. I applaud you for asking, I think you got a lot of reaction and you took it all very well. Bravo on all of that! Others already pointed out the contradictions and you sort of explained some of them but I guess I'm still confused. As others said, you say she doesn't initiate but then also say she is very open and tells you she can't wait to get home - implying get home to have sex with you. Well, you can't have that both ways - other than to say sometimes she's horny and sometimes not so much - but that's totally normal human actions for most people.

It doesn't sound like she lead you on - or is that it? I mean it almost starts to come down to you are mad at God that she had her period when you wanted to have sex with her! LOL. I mean, it's not her fault. You kissed her and such and then were turned on and couldn't have sex - by YOUR OWN CHOICE. I'm with you BTW but it is still a choice as JuJu points out other guys make a different choice. So what are you upset about or who?

I think the bottom line here is you two need to communicate better. That's often the cause of misunderstandings of people at all R levels - it happens with friends, with family, with FWB with spouses, with co-workers. Just talk with her about it - that sounds like what you need to do. Just what would have made this situation better for you C-Nut? What is it she didn't do that you wish she would have? Or what should she have done differently? And if it's just you wish it wasn't that time of the month, well, man, I don't know how to solve that.

But perhaps it more comes down to this is more then FWB for you and possibly for her - just as others have suggested might be the case. If she's still married, I'm not sure that's a good idea - wait I actually am sure, it's not a good idea - not yet anyhow. But either way, I think you need to try to figure out what it is you really want. And I get it, you think you know what you want until you're in a situation and then you find it's not what you thought you wanted. Either way just talk with her about it - no matter what "it" is. If something is bother you, tell her. You might also want to talk with her about feeling bad about dating someone else and then having to "dump" her. Again, these are just the common landmines of FWB. It really does take the right two people with the right two mindsets.

[DonH]

It really doesn't take the right two people with the right two mindsets.

OMG I so so so so so so so so so so so wish someone would/could turn on the edit function on this old outdated message board software setup LOL

I of course meant to say "It really DOES take the right two people with the right two mindsets." (to pull off a successful FWB that lasts over time)