Persistent Endurance (Part 6)

[IHCLACS]

Curtis. What if this place wasn't about divorce busting (Where it didn't potentially provide false hope, but yet pep talks on saving yourself and becoming a better person.) ? What if this place was just a little guy to guy hang out cafe? Tailgate, party or event? What if after talking to your buddies about your W actions, behavior, and screwing around with OM3, what do you think they would say to you? They would probably say something like: "Pack her $hit, off load, sell, or find another location for the horse, or charge rent for it, have some dignity and self respect, and take your ball$ back." You know why they would say that? Because they are emotionally detached from the situation. I know its hard to detach because you spent so many years, intimate moments, and vulnerability with this person. But let me ask you this? If this were a friend, acquaintance, or family member doing this to you. Would you respond the same way? Or would you put up real boundaries with real consequences, and distance yourself from this person to keep you emotionally healthy?

[AnotherStander]

Curtis- great comments from LH, Joe and IH above.

LH said most of what I was going to but just to reinforce a couple of his points:

I would not recommend dialoging with her. I would suggest telling her that while you would be open to that, you don't feel it's appropriate while she's engaging in an affair. She might argue that she's not actually sleeping with him but simply talking to him is STILL an affair.

She says she doesn't feel separated and wants to. Make that wish come true. Quit ALL contact with her. Tell her to get the horse out of there. Don't do her any favors, don't let her come by, end it all. She will never learn to miss you until you can make that happen.

[MrBrside]

I shake my head every time i read your comments Curtis.

I dont know you as a person, and i really dont want to come across as attacking, but you seem to be a door matt.. I dont want to get personal, but i dont know how you look in the mirror and have any self respect.

If people ask me about the biggest thing i would change ( i tried, pleaded, begged etc for approx 2 months prior to minding this site ) it would be not kicking her @$$ out sooner. Out of my whole sitch its the lack of self respect that still eats me up... I put up with it from October until December, then had cake eating for another month.. 2 to 3 months of crap.. Yes i've lost seing my kids daily, yes i am single at 39 and now i have a biggest mortgage.. But the thing that kicks me the most is my own stupid weekness when all this started..

Our sitchs are very similar.. I said that from day one.. we are about 2 months out of line in terms of time scale, but you are now nealry 12 months in and still in total limbo / denial...

Dude, you need to really get a grip and get your life in order... You have one life to live, and at the moment you are living it for somebody else. I really hope you snap out of this mindset and start to live for you and your kids.. Send the horse to the glue factory - ;-)

[AnotherStander]

If people ask me about the biggest thing i would change ( i tried, pleaded, begged etc for approx 2 months prior to minding this site ) it would be not kicking her @SS out sooner. Out of my whole sitch its the lack of self respect that still eats me up... I put up with it from October until December, then had cake eating for another month.. 2 to 3 months of crap.. Yes i've lost seing my kids daily, yes i am single at 39 and now i have a biggest mortgage.. But the thing that kicks me the most is my own stupid weekness when all this started..

A 2x4 named "truth" But in your and my and every other LBS's defense, we get blindsided by BD and we are reeling and almost all of us go through that phase of begging and pleading and generally making fools of ourselves. It's part of the process to recovery I think. It has to happen. But as the saying goes- "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." Let me tell you, I learned my lesson! My GF and I have gone through some rough times and when she says something like "maybe we should break up" I say "I think you're right, that's for the best" and then I go dark. Inevitably a day or two later she's back crying and apologizing. I will never be anyone's doormat again, not for a month or a week or a day or an hour!

So Curtis, hopefully these 2x4's aren't knocking you down. You are hurting and suffering and miserable and in that state is is darned tough to think and see clearly. And it's also tough to read harsh advice, I know it's hard because it was for me too. But that's what's great about this place is that we can help you cut through the fog. So try to read and learn and adapt. You can do this!

[IHCLACS]

Here you go Curtis. Time for some red pills.

[curtis7]

I appreciate the words of encouragement. I have hope, but not expecting a drastic turnaround. Hoping this will be a catalyst for W looking back in my direction and just maybe becoming curious. If not, life goes on, and I’ll keep DBing.

At a minimum, I should gain some insight on her feelings which she’s closed off and I’ve been out of touch with for so long. She may feel more comfortable once we both learn how to communicate effectively over the weekend.

I think it is a small victory in her merely attending, I can feel a sense of achievement in that feat. I hope she brings a cooperative spirit.

I wish everyone a happy weekend! Mine will be hard work, but I wouldn’t trade this opportunity. Leaving no stone unturned. Focusing on what I can do. Showing her AMOAFWL.

Geez, I've been bombarded by 2x4's. I don't blame any of you. I would give the same advice to someone else.

Re-quoting my last post before attending Retrouvaille and I would say that all-in-all it was a success. My goals were met. W is curious and looking back in my direction. I gained a load of insight on her feelings. She brought a very cooperative spirit, participated and gave genuine effort.

No, it was not a drastic 180 on her part, but we left the weekend in a more positive place than when we arrived. I was disappointed that we left early, likely because I had an expectation that we would commit to the entire program which included the 6 weekly follow-up sessions. The expectation wasn't good, and she picked up on that when we left. However, I still have hope.

[curtis7]

C,

I'm sorry Retrouvaille didn't work out but you knew it was a long shot as best so I'm guessing you weren't to surprised.

I am going tho keep this brief and give you to pieces of advice:

1. Don't dialogue with her while she is still talking to OM. That is your boundary. As far as helping her with her self image, you didn't break her and you can't fix her. Leave her to work on herself.

2. Give her the separation she is requesting. That means live like you are divorced. She takes and houses the horse, you discuss nothing but the children and you move on with your life. The only thing that will turn this around long term is time and space.

Don't listen to any of her words because it's all WW bs. Look only at her actions. Her continuing contact with OM is an action. Her continuing to life on her own action. You will not build attraction until she respects you and no woman will respect a man who is willing to share her with another man.

LH, it may be premature to claim that Retrouvaille didn't work out. Nevertheless, I think you're advice is perfect. Enforcing a boundary that shows I will not share my W, letting her fix her own problems, and giving her what she wants (separation). It shows that I'm respecting myself and her requests. I cannot argue with you at all. Still, I question if it's the right thing to do at this moment. Everyone here seems to agree that it is.

Yet, I'm still trying to evaluate this objectively. She has not been with OM3 since the end of August (if that is true)...I think it is as OM3 is 2 hours away and we've had a lot of kid activities in the past month. She is likely still in contact with him though. She has scheduled dialogue sessions with me several days this week, even when she doesn't have the kids. She is curious and looking back in my direction.

We have given you so much advice and you have chose to go against that advice in every single situation. Advice is an option you can choose to take it or leave it. But every time I read a post from you, it reaks of you kicking hope down the road to try to get your WW back, (she don't won't to come back at the moment). Allow her to be free of you trying to fix things.

Get out of her way, and move forward with you life. Everything you have done and I mean everything has been about you trying to control your WW and ya'll situation. I told you that months ago, that you need to stop trying control your situation and your WW with these obvious (trying to fix things) tactics.

Your WW has told she feels more for OM and wants space and time from you to feel what it's like to be separated. It's obvious she don't want to hurt you at the same time keep you as a plan B by leaving those tiny bread crumbs and you eat them right up.

I don't know what else or advice to give you. It's so frustrating reading your post. I don't get frustrated easily. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Joejoe, you are right. Your advice is filled with logic. I am dealing with an illogical human being right now and I'm being illogical as well by even considering not to follow the sound advice everyone is giving me. I have not made a decision on this yet.

They would probably say something like: "Pack her $hit, off load, sell, or find another location for the horse, or charge rent for it, have some dignity and self respect, and take your ball$ back."

IH, they would and have. If I had a friend going through this, knowing what I know now, I would give say something like that too.

I shake my head every time i read your comments Curtis.

I dont know you as a person, and i really dont want to come across as attacking, but you seem to be a door matt.. I dont want to get personal, but i dont know how you look in the mirror and have any self respect.

I haven't shared too much about what she opened up about during Retrouvaille, but I see that she recognizes the destruction that she's caused. I see why it appears I'm being a doormat. I haven't done much in the 11 months since BD to command respect.

But as the saying goes- "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

I was fooled in late July after her friend's H died and she seemed to have an awakening for a week. That was short-lived and her WW returned. Now, I may be getting fooled again until the Retrouvaille hangover wears off. It's another up cycle on the roller coaster, she is running hot. The cold will probably return again. I don't have a plan if that happens,

You are hurting and suffering and miserable and in that state is is darned tough to think and see clearly.

I'm actually not doing too bad at all. Actually, even though my MR is a disaster, I'm feeling quite upbeat about life.

I would like to know from the vets. When a WW starts to question her choices and the A fog lifts ever so slightly, is that not the time to be there for support rather than alienating her? Showing her that I'm the better option?

[ovrrnbw]

I would like to know from the vets. When a WW starts to question her choices and the A fog lifts ever so slightly, is that not the time to be there for support rather than alienating her? Showing her that I'm the better option?

She's asking for separation and until she is kicking the door down to change that you need to listen to her and give her what she wants, but stopping all the BS with her frequent visits and talks.

[MrBrside]

Re-quoting my last post before attending Retrouvaille and I would say that all-in-all it was a success. My goals were met. W is curious and looking back in my direction. I gained a load of insight on her feelings. She brought a very cooperative spirit, participated and gave genuine effort.

No, it was not a drastic 180 on her part, but we left the weekend in a more positive place than when we arrived. I was disappointed that we left early, likely because I had an expectation that we would commit to the entire program which included the 6 weekly follow-up sessions. The expectation wasn't good, and she picked up on that when we left. However, I still have hope.

Sorry but from an outsider looking in, this looks like you are in total la la land... Just what you have written shows where your head is at.. and its not a good place?

However, I still have hope.

Hope for what ? You have tried to justify why RV was a success, but the reality is that you are no better off than your were when you went. You say you have a better understanding of WW.. Sandy says it time and time again, and there are 100 people on here would you agree - Believe nothing they say!!... She played you and fed you a few crumbs, yet is still engaged to OM3... And you still have hope ????

I would like to know from the vets. When a WW starts to question her choices and the A fog lifts ever so slightly, is that not the time to be there for support rather than alienating her? Showing her that I'm the better option?

Icing on the cake ( she can carry on cake eating) comment to show how you are still the same person you were the day you joined this board..Harsh but true..

Disrespected, used, mentally abused even... and you are still bothered about looking like the BETTER option'... Why on earth would you want to be a better option for somebody like this. Would you ever trust her again - dont be a fool.. Sorry to say but she is damaged goods. And with damaged good, you dont use them, you get rid.

Be a BETTER YOU and get yourself into a BETTER place. A place with no horse, a place without her, a place where your children, own health and mental wellbeing are key - a place where you focus on BETTERING yourself... And in 12 months time, once you are in that place, consider a relationship with a BETTER person - NOT your WW.. She is not a good relationship candidate. At the moment you are still in love with your WW.. Once them goggles lift ( hence why i said a min 12 months before starting to look at other people ) you will see that your WW wasnt all that. There are 1000s of ladies out there.. Ladies that are not damaged like your WW. Ladies who are good relationship material. She is damaged and damaging you.. Move onwards and upwards.. Become BETTER for you are YOUR future.. Not Better for some WW who just uses and abuses.

[LH19]

C,

Boy you sure are a different cat. Let's throw OM3 out of the equation. You are still not listening to what she is saying! She is asking for a true separation. Does that sound like someone who wants to work on the marriage?

I agree that she may be questioning her choice with OM3 due to his availability and distance. However that doesn't mean she's coming back to you. She has stated that she is not attracted to you and I know this is going to sound harsh but I can see why. You have no backbone and allow her to treat you badly. That is not attractive!!!!!

I have no doubt that you are a great father and a super nice guy but until you learn to love and respect yourself you will struggle to keep a relationship with a woman who has options.

If you want to forever cement yourself in the friend zone then go ahead and support her. I still think you're going to kick yourself one day for not trying DB.