Divorce because I betrayed her trust - THREAD 2

[AnotherStander]

I've drafted:

"I just thought it would be a nice gesture. It was not deliberate. I can see how you would be affected by it though. I didn't intend to upset you."

Good. I would have left the last part off, when you are validating you don't want to tell someone what your "intent" was or wasn't because by doing so you are telling them they have misinterpreted, and that their feelings and their reaction are wrong. So keep that in mind in the future.

I get this response before leaving for work this morning:

"I get that it was a nice gesture and it would have taken a lot of work. I was just hard to watch. I am sorry I came across as harsh."

This is proof that validating works! I didn't apologise for the gift, but she said sorry for her reaction.

Great!

This is the most frustrating thing. She KNOWS it's a lot to lose, yet she is prepared to chuck it all away, and i believe a big reason for this is her pride. I'm sure she doesn't want to go back on her word because she will have boasted to all her friends "well I've served him the papers now." and they'll have said, "You go girl! You show him!" She will fear looking weak to them. She is a people pleaser.

Could be. There was a WAS that used to post here that said her biggest fear in reconciling was that she had to go back to everyone and explain to them why the man whose name she had been dragging through the mud for the previous year wasn't so bad after all. She said it was almost enough to prevent her from reconciling (she did eventually recon with him). Stubborn pride can be a deal-killer. But at the end of the day there's nothing you can do about it. My attitude is that if she's too "proud" to reconcile then that's not someone you want to be with. If her pride is more important to her than you are then that should tell you something.

I've read elsewhere that I need her to SEE that I'm going along with what she wants. I've not told her I've responded. I understand she'll get an email or letter about it anyway. I won't tell her unless she asks.

Good.

What are everyone's thoughts on the house sale - should I assist when she asks?

Well house sales are very complicated matters and typically it can't be done without both parties participating. The DB'ing rule of thumb is don't take care of things yourself, but don't do anything to obstruct either. So let her do the "heavy lifting" but if she needs something from you then provide it.

[DaB35]

AS Thank you for your reply.

I would have left the last part off, when you are validating you don't want to tell someone what your "intent" was or wasn't because by doing so you are telling them they have misinterpreted, and that their feelings and their reaction are wrong.

Yes I thought that as soon as I posted this response in the thread! Eventually I did leave that last bit off. I simply ended it with:

"I can see how you would be affected by it though. I will keep that in mind." That helped massively.

My attitude is that if she's too "proud" to reconcile then that's not someone you want to be with. If her pride is more important to her than you are then that should tell you something.

That's certainly something to think about. She's said "I'd always choose my family over a partner. Any day."

What I've found unattractive about her recently is the sudden change in mood, simply cutting off the M. I think she's very upset inside about deciding to end things between us, but I'm just frustrated at her refusal to seek IC for herself. She definitely needs to speak to a professional about everything and is just thinking that a couple of long phonecalls with her mum & sister plus some girly nights in at a mate's house will be all she needs.

I'm seeing my IC this evening. She has told me she has contacts near where my W is if she wishes to get IC for herself. Should I give my W those contact details - maybe a few weeks down the line?

[DaB35]

Just found out that I passed my last accountancy exam this afternoon.
I can put a few more letters after my name, and hopefully will get a pay rise in October (hopefully!).

I'm going to do some more exams in 2020 to get further up the ladder. I want to be chartered before I'm 40, so I'm on the right path definitely.

Really good to have some positive news. Definitely a real GAL moment here.

[DejaVu6]

Congratulations Dan!!! Good luck in getting the pay raise! (((HUGS)))

[DaB35]

Haha thanks! I'm hoping it's soon
It's been a real nice bit of news. I am so glad it's done. I'm sad that my W isn't here to celebrate with me though.

I'm going to put it on FB that I've passed as my other friends would like to hear the news.
I don't really use FB much anymore, but at least W will get to hear about it indirectly - I'm not going out of my way at all to tell her.

[DaB35]

Had a really good IC session this evening. My homework is to list 'incorrect beliefs' I've had about myself, not just in M but in general - and we'll tackle them one by one. I made some notes from listening to NMMNG so that will be a good place to start.

My IC said the positives of passing my exams and recent general GALing are really having a good effect. Haven't had any relapses into addiction at all, and also the 'craving' is much, much weaker. I'm beating it!

Just a shame my W isn't there to see the progress.

Have to respond to her about estate agents and selling the house soon. I am still waiting for one of them to confimr some fees (why can't they just immediately provide me with an accurate list?!).
I want to just send them to her, so she can pick one to use. She's the one who wants to sell. I am not happy that she's making me choose the estate agent when I don't even want the house to be sold at all.

Part of me wants to GAL and be so positive that she sees what she's left behind. Rest assured readers, my main goal is to better ME and MY LIFE first. That's my priority.

[crdcheck]

Hey Dan, question for you but no need to answer here - is this an "addiction" or just "typical" behavior? Does it interfere with your work, other parts of your life? Reason I ask is that I'm a bit worried that you may be trying to go too far, that a Victoria's Secret add may "compromise" you in the future. If you don't want to look at porn, great. But if you are a fully-functioning person who enjoys porn and is changing only because this is what your W would want, well, I fear that there is a risk of relapse in the future - the more you try to stop thinking about something the harder it is (e.g. try for the next 60 seconds to not think about elephants... good luck). And if you get your W back and in three years you look at a pic or rewatch some scene of an R rated movie, is she back out? All I'm saying is, make sure that you are true to yourself.

Re: house sale, I went the route of not obstructing but also not helping. In my sitch, I was the bad guy (cheater) but had spent a year making significant changes so, while I felt compelled to atone for my sins by helping her leave, folks here convinced me that I was doing her work for her. I gravitated toward letting her run things, saying that this was her "project" and I would help when she asked (rather than demanded) and when I felt reasonable (e.g. would not compromise my work) but I would not drive. At the same time, like you, I was GALing and moving my life forward (finding a new place to live, planning vacations, etc.). I'll be honest - I'm 4-6 weeks away from my D being finalized so I can't say that my approach is the one to follow. However, by the time she announced, it was already over, and she'd made the decision long before. She betrayed me in that regard. Which is part of the reason...

I have to wonder what else is your W thinking? Not that you know, not that you can ask, but boy, for a first offense to jump to D? Don't get me wrong, I understand the desire to make things right, but her response seems disproportionate to the offense, especially if you are seeking to right the "wrong".

In short, I don't see there as being any opportunity for you to do right in her eyes. Whether you help her or not she has fired you, pack your stuff, clear your desk, turn your badge in. And now she wants you to work an extra shift or two to get through the busy season. Not sure that's reasonable...

[DaB35]

Thanks for your reply crdcheck.

is this an "addiction" or just "typical" behavior? Does it interfere with your work, other parts of your life?

I never looked at work at all. It was generally when I was alone in the house, but it got to the stage when I'd look in secret even when W was around too. E.g. we would each be sitting on one of our sofas one evening. I'd have my iPad close by; initially I'd be innocently looking at things for the house like flooring etc., and showing her, or emailing or checking FB. Then I'd feel compelling to message one of the women. Just a message, simply to get the anticipation of the buzz of a response from them.

Usually whenever my W left for the gym, I'd always say "what time are you back?" Classic. I'd look then. Sometimes if she was away visiting family for a few days (if I couldn't get time off work), I'd spend hours looking online. I was getting tired of it, so I knew it was a problem. I didn't have the courage at the time to admit it to ANYBODY or seek help myself. I was too proud to get therapy. Now, my IC has pointed out, that so many people know, the shame of it has somewhat dissipated because I'm not keeping it secret anymore. That's a good thing.

I need to change for myself - I was relying on it too much as escapism from when I was feeling stressed or berating myself about things (NGS). I believe I will not relapse back to the extent I was using previously. I haven't looked in nearly 4 months. And you know what? I feel better, and don't wonder what I'm missing out on at all.

Re: house sale, I went the route of not obstructing but also not helping. I gravitated toward letting her run things, saying that this was her "project" and I would help when she asked (rather than demanded) and when I felt reasonable (e.g. would not compromise my work) but I would not drive.

Yes I am definitely leaning towards this. I have been very cooperative. I was asked to organise 2 estate agent visits which I did. I gave a 3rd one my W's number so she had to arrange a viewing with them herself. My W is now pushing ME to decide which agent to go with. I'm going to get all the fees and summarise them in a spreadsheet, and then send it to her, basically saying, "you choose, it's your decision to sell."

I have to wonder what else is your W thinking? Not that you know, not that you can ask, but boy, for a first offense to jump to D? Don't get me wrong, I understand the desire to make things right, but her response seems disproportionate to the offense, especially if you are seeking to right the "wrong".

I have no idea what she is thinking. She is being led by family and friends and work colleagues. I know that. She is a people pleaser and doesn't want to go against others' well meaning advice.

It is not the first offense. She caught me 'looking' on my phone twice in 2017. Found some pictures. That was it. I wasn't messaging any women back then. I promised that there was nothing further that she needed to know about. Yes I lied to her. But that's NGS - avoiding your own flaws. I didn't want her to find everything out. Her main drive for D is the length of time I kept it hidden from her (8 years), the fact that I had effectively 'maintained' an online presence on one of the websites (I had a profile that I updated regularly), and of course uploading a pic of SIL in a private chat.

Yes I am seeking to right the wrongs I've made. I am sad that she is just stubbornly pushing through. Doesn't even seem bothered. I am detaching and not reaching out. I am missing her but in all honesty, am not thinking about her 24/7 as I was when this whole thing exploded in May. My IC said that if she runs into issues because of her new choice of living arrangements (living with her brother and his W in their tiny 2 bed house - no way can she run her businesses from there - plus she's had to take on a load of extra teaching work she really doesn't want to do), that is HER problem now, not ours as a couple.

[DaB35]

Additional:

I'm mindful that of course as the house eventually goes up for sale, she and I will need to meet again to sort things out, and also for me to collect all my stuff from the house.

Do I need to point out the following at all, whether it be in a blunt or validating manner:
- Her choice to walk away from M not mine
- Sad that she didn't want to work things out and dismiss IC herself
- I'd have really tried to prove my worth to her if she wanted to reconcile
- Her choice to give up our life together, not mine
- Her choice to financially affect both our lives

I don't want to be passive aggressive (I am of course trying to avoid NGS now) but do I need to say any of the above to her at all?

Or should I simply GAL, completely detach, be a bit aloof, be positive and happy about MY life and where I am, and not look like I'm very sad and upset that my selfishness has caused me to lose my best friend and a wonderful woman, however flawed she may be?


I've always thought John Cusack would be ideal to play me in the imaginary film about my life (High Fidelity is one of my fave films and I love his character in it).

[AnotherStander]

Do I need to point out the following at all, whether it be in a blunt or validating manner:
- Her choice to walk away from M not mine
- Sad that she didn't want to work things out and dismiss IC herself
- I'd have really tried to prove my worth to her if she wanted to reconcile
- Her choice to give up our life together, not mine
- Her choice to financially affect both our lives

Short answer- no. Long answer- no, no, no, no and no She knows all of this already. Telling her will just make you look desperate/ needy and make her inclined to BD you all over again.

Or should I simply GAL, completely detach, be a bit aloof, be positive and happy about MY life and where I am, and not look like I'm very sad and upset that my selfishness has caused me to lose my best friend and a wonderful woman, however flawed she may be?

Yes!