Hey Steve, I think you are getting alot of good insight on here... Sandi's in particular, given her own WW experience with online gaming and EAs.
None of us here know you IRL or have seen your sitch up close in person, but some of the things others have posted on here resonate with me:
In particular, i think you should keep in your mind the possibility that she is, as someone else posted, merely "in a time out". My own WW went through a couple such periods where she would give up a burner phone or not go out with her gf's or otherwise "behave herself" for a spell... and, yes, she would even throw some contrite-sounding sound-bites out there, but she was always yearning to get back to her WW lifestyle as soon as she could. It was only when she was convinced that she HAD lost me (not just that she might) that things really started to turn for her. Not sure your W has yet ever gotten to that point-- you have been DB-ing like mad, and doing a great job of it but... and this is crucial... you have to remember that you can't "nice her back" or even, IMHO, "attract" her back by being AMOAFWL. She has to get to the spot on her own where she wants to come all the way back and put her waywardness behind her. Only the almighty knows for sure if she is currently at that point, but i think, as Sandi cautions, that there is reason to be wary in this case.
Also, if she IS at that point, i think it is going to be crucial for her to be in IC, and with a counselor that a) she is comfortable with and b) understands the addictive nature of EMAs and the dangers of relapsing. A couple folks above mentioned the importance of addressing trauma or other important dynamics and events of childhood, and they are absolutely right. In our initial early forays into MC and IC, my w (and even I, to a lesser extent) scoffed at the idea that talking about one's own childhood would have any utility in addressing problems in a MR. The funny thing is, once we got to the point... and particularly once SHE got to the point... where we were both bought in 100% to the counselling and trying to repair the MR, talking about her childhood traumas, issues, and hangups was one of the most important components to our reconciliation. The point of all this is, i guess, to say you should be very mindful of how you go about choosing your counselors. I was extremely blessed to have one just kind of "pop up" through a long-lost friend that i hadn't seen in probably 25 years... amazing coincidence... and she turned out to be just what we needed. At any rate, don't just pick someone at random, try to find out something about them, and don't just necessarily pick the most experienced or highly rated (ours was fairly young had just struck out on her own with her own practice-- Christian marriage counselor and sex therapist... didn't think there even was such a thing, lol). It goes without saying that any counselor you choose should be pro-marriage. If possible and both are amenable, it probably would help if your counselor is Christian, but i wouldn't get married to that idea, necessarily.. My own W, as it sounds as if yours does, has a bit of a conflicted relationship with her own faith, and she resisted at first the idea of faith-based counselling (which resulted in a couple of visits early on to someone we just picked at random with high ratings which turned out to be a disaster-- both because the counselor was just not a good fit with us and our situation, but also because my W just wasnt ready for counselling at that point-- which is something you yourself should evaluate and consider as a possibility in your sitch.)
At any rate, hang in there! Keep DB-ing! Im pulling for ya and sending some prayers your way.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
My W really is all in on faith. But like the rest of us she is fallible. Which is why we need faith in the first place.
Our MC was phenomenal. She did a great job and I attribute my marriage not ending a lot to her work. She did a especially good job getting me to see how selfish and self-centered I was for the majority of my life. We'll probably go with someone new not that we live so far from her practice, so your advice will come in handy.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Ok everyone. I have something I have to confess. Something I've never admitted in this forum before, but based on my current circumstances I feel it is extremely necessary to come clean.
I've had my own EAs.
Wow this is harder to post than I thought it would be.
I'm so sorry to disappoint you all.
I've had 4 total. First two were 17 and 18 years ago. Those I admitted to my wife after her EA in 2005.
The last two were 8 and 6 years ago.
So I'm in no position to judge anyone.....
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Further to my previous and your reply about your W's childhood trauma - wow, that is huge, and I really empathise.
IMHO, this may be the key issue. IMHO, with this type of serious unresolved childhood trauma and abandonment (particularly your MIL sweeping things away, which is huge) without addressing it, doing anything else may be like trying to fix a smoky engine by constantly replacing the muffler.
Can I suggest you look into EMDR therapy for your wife? Spare no expense in getting the best if you do. You are golden in having a W who is open to IC.
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Further to mine and Hoosjim's posts Steve, I remember listening to a podcast by an American Family therapist called 'Dr Deb'. I cant remember further identifying details other than she very much underscored the importance of getting a registered and trained 'Family Therapist', and she was very specific with that term, and to interview the Family Therapist to establish credentials, experience etc. I remember listenign to her and being amazed by what she was saying.
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Confessions aside. This is not about judging anyone. It's about assessing the situation and advising accordingly based on DB principles.
It's about advising how to proceed regarding the current turn of events.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
Appreciate the honesty and being candid Steve. EAs are a slippery beast to define and I am guessing when you say that you had EAs, you were engaged in some fantasy or sharing things that you wouldn't with your W. I've come to have a more sober look at EAs and I am not quite sold on them in the same way that I was before as I see there is a lot of nuance to it - but that's for another time.
Looks like you've worked through your EAs, but you still have a pattern just like your W. Have you done the self-reflective work on why this pattern exists? what are you doing differently now to meet your own needs by yourself to not have an EA? I believe this is an interesting piece of information because I think you need to address this pattern with her in counseling.
I've had 4 total. First two were 17 and 18 years ago. Those I admitted to my wife after her EA in 2005.
The last two were 8 and 6 years ago.
So I'm in no position to judge anyone.....
You are human and everyone makes mistakes. If anything, it helps you empathize with your W and forgive her. This is huge because there can be no R without forgiveness first.
However, be careful not to confuse judging and being able to forgive with just accepting disrespectful behavior on her part. Your mistakes more than 6 years ago should not be justification for her actions today.
