Are your Ws complaints that everything is about you and that you’re a control freak?
Lumis, you are seeking an unusual amount of control over your partner in these filings. "And introduction to the other spouse" - How does this help your D? Suppose you meet this guy for 5 minutes and realize he hasn't showered in days, is rude and obnoxious, and believes college is for losers. You still don't get any say over whether that's your D's stepfather, one of the people influencing her life.
I would feel controlled if my ex-wife had asked for all these terms.
Are your Ws complaints that everything is about you and that you’re a control freak?
Depends on the day. Complaints have ranged from needing to be in control (though this is NOT a common complaint - it is more of a recent one given the turmoil), not communicating well, not understanding her, making a comment about her nose 7 years ago, not being a good enough father for the first year and a half of our daughter's life, being terrible during her pregnancy, accusations of cheating, being fake, being too nice in an effort to win her back, looking at her wrong, being too happy (i.e. acting as-if), and so on. Everything is extremely negative right now, and has been for two months. She never focuses on one issue.
I see where you were going with the question, but these (morality clause, etc.) are things we had discussed prior - I didn't drop these all on her at once and we were in agreement on all that were covered previously. The only thing I dropped on her today was my preference for separation for 1 year before divorce, and the psych eval. The latter was at the suggestion of my friend in child services given her knowledge of things that have taken place when my W and D were alone (sending of my D's photos, getting into sewing kits, etc.). She said these didn't meet the mandatory reporting criteria as risk of abuse was low... but the photos that were sent were close.
Regarding the psych eval - my W has untreated mental health issues. This is clear as day. These may not be a risk to my D at the present time, but I do NOT want to wait until they are before seeking further help. Whether my marriage survives or not, this is a non-negotiable for me. It won't be fun for either of us, but I realize if I request this in the separation, it will be granted even if she objects as it will be in the best interest of our D. I have no expectations for the outcome - I honestly hope we throw away a bit of money and get a diagnosis of 'too healthy' but something tells me it won't have that outcome.
We need space. We both need to GAL. We need legal structure to protect everyone. I don't want a divorce, she does. I believe some time may give her healing, and if she needs to date a bit along the way, so be it. By getting this separation filed, I think we will be able to breathe a bit and find a new 'normal'. Maybe over the next year, she'll decide she doesn't like the new normal and wants to give it a shot again with a little more dedication... or hell, maybe I'll like the new normal. I fully intend to continue working on myself with the help of everyone here, though I pray the drama declines in the near future.
Some things from today - her grandmother is going to pass today or tomorrow (hospice care), and I simply offered to be present if she wanted me around, while setting aside all of our own issues. I told her I didn't expect her to reply with a decision, but just not to be ashamed to ask. She immediately said that perhaps her and my D would come over to my (I guess it's mine, now?) home. I just said to let me know, and 'whatever you need' and left it at that.
Lumis, you're seeking an unusual amount of control over your partner in these filings. "And introduction to the other spouse" - How does this help your D? Suppose you meet this guy for 5 minutes and realize he hasn't showered in days, is rude and obnoxious, and believes college is for losers. You still don't get any say over whether that's your D's stepfather, one of the people influencing her at the other home. I would definitely feel controlled if my ex-wife had asked for all these terms.
I will post the full statement and note that she was in FULL agreement with all of it. She didn't bat an eye - she wanted the exact same things from me and we mutually felt they were in the best interest of our D:
My concern with meeting the other partner and potentially objecting is along the lines of MLC behaviors - seeking someone that encourages bad behaviors (drugs, alcohol, etc.). I think it's totally reasonable to meet someone ONE TIME (minimum) that is potentially around your child on a regular basis.
Quote
Morality Clause:
Neither parent may introduce a new romantic partner to the child for a minimum of 6 months of exclusive dating.
Neither parent may introduce a new romantic partner to the child without prior introduction of the new romantic partner to the other parent.
Neither parent may cohabitate with or bring a new romantic partner into their home with the child present (even if the child is sleeping) for a minimum of 6 months of exclusive dating.
Neither parent may cohabitate with or bring a new romantic partner into their home with the child present (even if the child is sleeping) without prior introduction of the new romantic partner to the other parent.
Any objection by one parent to the other parent’s new romantic partner meeting the child or being present in the same home as the child under the above guidelines shall be settled by using a mutually agreed-upon, neutral third-party (such as a mediator, counselor, or other professional) to resolve any dispute before filing a court action. This shall not apply in the event of an emergency or abusive circumstance.
There will be no concessions made to the above guidelines unless the parents agree in writing.
Social Media Clause:
Neither parent may post images of the child to social media in open forum.
Neither parent may post identifying information (name, address, schedule, date-of-birth, etc.), preferences (favorite foods, activities, etc.), or any other information which may be used maliciously to entice or otherwise endanger the wellbeing of the child, by an unknown or anonymous third party, to social media in open forum.
There will be no concessions made to the above guidelines unless the parents agree in writing (including electronic communication, such as text message or e-mail).
Regarding the psych eval - my W has untreated mental health issues. This is clear as day.
This one sounded reasonable. If both of you are okay, it's quick and easy to sign off on.
Originally Posted by "Lumis"
I will post the full statement and note that she was in FULL agreement with all of it. She didn't bat an eye - she wanted the exact same things from me and we mutually felt they were in the best interest of our D:
Regarding the psych eval - my W has untreated mental health issues. This is clear as day.
This one sounded reasonable. If both of you are okay, it's quick and easy to sign off on.
Originally Posted by "Lumis"
I will post the full statement and note that she was in FULL agreement with all of it. She didn't bat an eye - she wanted the exact same things from me and we mutually felt they were in the best interest of our D:
All cool then. If you're both on the same page 100% it's not a control issue.
Thanks for the clarifications - it's tough to include the emotions behind the decisions we are making. She is a good mother, but mental illness is no joke, be it the addictive behaviors or otherwise. Safeguards that aren't intrusive on our normal lives are the goal and I would be completely open to any she suggested for me (though she hasn't suggested anything).
W asked if she could come over, and then we go to dinner tonight. Feeling a little uneasy overall after being lied to yesterday, but given the situation with her grandmother, I'm going to try and suck it up and just have a decent time.
We went to dinner, and she again brought up the topic of dating (others). She started by saying things like 'regardless of whether we are legally separated or just separated, we are not together'. I asked her once more if she had broken our commitment to not date, and she said she hadn't. I couldn't stand it and I dropped the OM's name; she started crying. She denied many of the things he told me, but she was appalled at the way he spoke of her behind her back (i.e. 'I bet she's a great F', 'I'm not looking to date her', calling her a hypocrite, etc.) and thanked me for calling her out on her dishonesty (I was FLOORED at this...).
I told her that I cared little about the date, and more about the lying; reminding her that honesty in raising our child was going to be a major requirement to work together. I explained that I understood what she meant by needing space, and I felt as if I did as well now. In order to get legal structure in-place, we will be filing for separation this week.
She indicated that she was interested in 'dating' me, but just wanted to make it clear that we were not going to be exclusively dating and that she would likely be seeing others. I told her that she was more than welcome to remind herself how fun the dating world is (not in a sarcastic way), but to be safe. We set some boundaries - electing not to reveal information when/if asked about dating is fine, don't overshare details unless asked, etc. The bottom line was, just don't lie to each other.
We talked about our marriage and how the basic foundation had been eroded though both of our actions in the past - rebuilding anything would require starting from scratch rather than building atop sand (which we both tied into her choice of moving back in for 3 weeks, and pretending everything was fine). It was a weird dinner, but I think we left feeling better than it started. She hugged me and kissed me when we got home, and left without coming inside. She indicated this morning that clearing the air felt good.
We talked a little bit about the possibility of having sex. We both felt comfortable with each other physically, but we made it clear that should we go down this route, we both understand not to read too much into it. Nothing came of this that night.
Today, she came over with our D earlier than the exchange time to hang out as a family. She mentioned filing papers and I had a minor breakdown, excusing myself to the restroom before she noticed. My D followed me to the bathroom door, and then my W followed my D and heard me cry. I asked that she not let our D see me, and that I just needed a moment. She said she didn't understand, and that I was getting 'everything I wanted'. I just said that I was sad and needed a moment. After I regained composure, we didn't end up doing much aside from putting out D down for a nap (D was grumpy!).
W asked if I would like to watch some TV together so we did. In about 2 hours, we cycled around between some physical contact (lying near or beside her), her not wanting contact, her initiating contact (holding my hand), her refusing contact when I reached my hand out later, exchanging foot-rubs, etc. It was all over the board.
When she left, she said 'I don't even know what we are doing, I was ready to file for divorce, and still am, so I don't understand this separation.' I just said 'neither of us knows where we will be in a year' and she said 'yeah, that's very true'. She talked about probably taking a 2-3 day retreat in the near future and just spending the time writing her thoughts in a journal over the time away. We talked about this last night too, and both agreed that it has always been massively beneficial to her in the past. We had a good hug, and she left. The departing mood wasn't as good as the night prior, but it wasn't awful.
Actions speak louder than words - we effectively went on a date last night, she came over early today, she stayed after our D went to sleep, and she reached out to hold my hand today. I'll take any small victories I can get.
In this moment, I am looking forward to having some legal structure in place this week that is NOT a full-blown divorce. I believe this will at least give me some relief for looming concerns (the home, our D's schedule, money, etc.). With those resolved amicably, I think I can work on myself in a more focused manner. The erratic behavior lately has given me great cause for concern about the legal paperwork, which is why we are filing as quickly as possible.
Reflecting now, I'm realizing I probably should have validated a bit when she said 'I don't even know what we are doing, I was ready to file for divorce, and still am, so I don't understand this separation.' Not sure the best way to have done it... but that was definitely a missed opportunity.
I’ve been replying with short replies today such as “good, thanks!” And such and she finally called me out on it saying “what’s with the short replies today, it’s making me anxious”.
I’ve been replying with short replies today such as “good, thanks!” And such and she finally called me out on it saying “what’s with the short replies today, it’s making me anxious”.
What do I say to this when directly confronted?
I'd say nothing mate. Or, if you have to, maybe just "I'm busy".
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
