She hugged me and kissed me when she came into the house. The kiss was awkward because I never know if I should expect it or not. We focused on the parenting plan, and I refused the haircut saying I would get it done elsewhere (as politely as possible).
The parenting plan went effectively nowhere. She flipped through 20 some pages like it was a cartoon flip-book and said she didn't understand it well enough - I offered that she take it with her. She acted suspicious when I designated my address as the primary address for our child (she effectively has no home, as she is crashing at her parents' apartment). I said I didn't fully understand the implications and said we would need to look it up. Turns out, in joint custody, it doesn't really mean anything legally (I didn't share this yet as I learned it after she left).
We had a beer together, put our daughter down to bed, and she took off... that was about it. She said she was sad, apologized that this was 'weird'. The goodbye hug was a grandpa-style pat the back deal.
Me: ? W: I slept okay. Me: ? ? W: Yeah, she's great! Me: ? W: For the most part yeah. Me: ? W: Just sad about stuff.
Me: Your sadness is just as valid as your anger and resentment; I'm here to listen with full attention if you want. I understand that you want a divorce. You know that is not what I want, but I will not stand in your way if you choose to follow through with it.
Lumis, it sounds like you were excited for her to say something meaningful so you could listen and validate. Alas, her answers were SHORT and CLOSED-ENDED. This indicates they didn't want to do so, and pressuring with many questions and monologues probably didn't help your case.
Originally Posted by "Lumis"
We had a beer together, put our daughter down to bed, and she took off... that was about it.
I told her that she underestimated how messy this would likely get and she asked what I meant. I said that since she was done, my priority would 100% be on my D, and that I would be petitioning for full custody.. In counseling she explained that this was effectively me 'going back to my old ways' and trying to control her. She said this firmed up her decision to end the marriage.
Wow.. it's been a rough month. It seems ridiculously unfair that separation forces us to try to learn to "let go" at the very moment our lives are spinning wildly out of control.
Originally Posted by "Lumis"
The parenting plan went effectively nowhere. She flipped through 20 some pages like it was a cartoon flip-book and said she didn't understand it well enough
What were your expectations? It seems natural to want time to review such an important document. She may even want to make changes so it reflects a mix of your ideas and hers.
Originally Posted by "Lumis"
(she effectively has no home, as she is crashing at her parents' apartment). Turns out, in joint custody, it doesn't really mean anything legally
The address in mine determines my kids' school district and how far we can move. If the address in yours has no meaning, I'd fill in her parents' address. That should help reduce her doubts.
Lumis, great advice from the others. Just to reinforce their points- keep convos short and business-like. Remember you can't "nice" her back. Find someone else to cut your hair, my XW used to cut mine but after BD I found someone else posthaste. Next time you see her carry the freakin' cat out to the car for her. Don't take no for an answer.
What were your expectations? It seems natural to want time to review such an important document. She may even want to make changes so it reflects a mix of your ideas and hers.
My expectations were to receive some input as we had agreed on many points in advance. I expected that she would need to think about holidays but everything else is pretty cut and dry. Her only other point of concern was verbal (my choice) vs. written agreement to altering the child care schedule temporarily.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
The address in mine determines my kids' school district and how far we can move. If the address in yours has no meaning, I'd fill in her parents' address. That should help reduce her doubts.
I've heard it can be preferential but not req'd in my area for school district, and frankly this isn't a concern for 3-4 years. Her parents are looking for a new place to live so I selected my address given the (relative) permanence.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Next time you see her carry the freakin' cat out to the car for her. Don't take no for an answer.
Oh! I forgot about that! She was getting ready to leave and I told her the cat carrier/litter box/cat food was all ready. She tried to get out of it saying 'can I just get her tomorrow?' and 'is it okay if I just come by tomorrow night and pick her up?' but I extremely politely pushed back saying 'oh it will just be easier to take her tonight, all the stuff is ready to go! See?'.
Honestly, I love cats and have one I'm still caring for (blind, deaf, and has renal failure), but her 20 year old kitty was just too much work due to some unfortunate litter box habits (i.e. the box is for #1, the floor is for #2). When my W was pregnant with our D, she got out of all cat-related responsibilities using the 'can't change cat litter when I'm pregnant' excuse for EVERYTHING, including feeding. Once our D was born, nothing changed; I have been the cat's primary caretaker since.
I felt pretty good about yesterday but hit a MASSIVE snag this morning.
I'll note at the beginning - I am not seeking out her life updates online; she has blocked me on Find My Friends as well as her calendar (which is really inconvenient for exchanging our D, but whatever). The extent of what have seen are her Instagram where she too the words 'proud wife' out of her profile, and her Facebook where she still lists me as her husband. Don't forget this - I am being completely honest when I say I am NOT seeking out life updates about her; I know how bad they hurt, how little good they do, and how anxious this would make me. I'll come back to this in a moment.
So yesterday, the only messages were as follows:
1. Me asking her to transfer money into our shared account to not overdraw on the counseling check. 2. Her asking how my D and I were doing - I waited 20 min. then replied 'All good thanks' 3. Her asking how my day way - I waited 40 min. then replied 'Good thanks!' and she said 'That's good' 4. Sent a few photos of our D as we tend to do as a courtesy to each other; she said 'Thank you for sending photos of our D' and I said 'You're welcome'. She replied 'I really appreciate it' and I sent a thumbs-up. 5. Her asking at 11 pm if I was awake, then telling me that she just saw a massive car/pedestrian accident and gave some details. I replied 'That's crazy'. I wasn't trying to be cold, but I honestly was stumped with how to respond without becoming a shoulder to cry on.
Then, browsing an anonymous message board (think Reddit or the old Craigslist local threads), I stumbled across a post with her name, which is spelled in a really unique way. I didn't seek this out. At all...
...but I did pull the loose thread attached to the sweater.
The post essentially said '[W's name] - enjoyed talking to you, and I hope you find what you're looking for after your divorce is finalized. Don't text me.'
I replied posing as an anonymous party curious if it was indeed about her... and it was. Her and I agreed to not pursue romantic interests until the divorce/separation was filed or finalized, but this guy had been on a date with her. He noted that she initially implied they would have sex after the date as long as there was protection, but that she did not follow through with anything sexual. He knew that she was still married and had a D. He knew my D's age. He knew my W's job (though she had lied about details). He knew her age. Just listing all of this to confirm that yes, this really happened.
This morning, my W came over to pick up our D. She mentioned she didn't sleep and had a bad night due to the car accident she witnessed. I tested the waters by saying I didn't sleep and had a bad dream. She asked what it was about, and I stated that I dreamed that despite our agreement to not pursue romantic interests, that she had been dating and talking to people romantically/sexually. She took my hand and told me I could trust her, that she had thought about it, but had not done anything of the sort. She reconfirmed this at least three times over the short window of feeding our D breakfast.
She indicated that she wished we had our MC this week rather than next week, as she was having a really tough time. She also showed some anger that I didn't give her any acknowledgement about the car accident. I replied that if she wanted support, she would need to ask as the last thing she told me was that she didn't want my support. She was doing a total dance between wanting to hug me and not let herself be physically close.
So needless to say, my morning is pretty lousy. I suspected she was dating already given her urgency to file papers (as if shortening the window of time would undo the lying that already took place), but she is clearly back to her cycle of cultivating lust.
As a reminder from page 1, her addictive cycle when cheating in the past was as follows:
1. Cultivate lust with men by telling them everything they want to hear, showing them anything they want to see, etc. 2. Continue to feel power over men until the point where things inevitably become physical. 3. Either follow-through with sexual interactions and dissociate during the act(s), or back out at the last minute and ghost the person entirely.
Now... is this cheating? No, probably not at this point. We are separated, and she has fired me as her husband. This behavior however SERIOUSLY worries me w/ regard to her self-control in the care of our D. I am at a loss as to what to do right now.
We made the agreement to not hire lawyers unless the other does first... but I'm feeling as if I may need one for the following reasons:
1. She takes anger out on me and has to the point of physically hitting me during our relationship. Without me around, I'm worried my D may fill this void. 2. She throws self-preservation to the wind when pursuing these addictive tendencies. In the past, she engaged in unprotected sex, sex with multiple men in one day, and allowing herself to be physically battered by these men. I am worried less that this will take place with my D present than I am that one day, my D may suddenly have no mother. 3. She overshares information about our D with these EA interests. She has sent photos of our D to people she met online, including photos of our D in the bathtub.
I'm scared this morning... I'm not even thinking about having her back but just focused on the best interests of my D. Perhaps emotions are blowing this out of proportion... but I don't know.
I thought the OM was done talking and he just kept going...
Things didn't get sexual, but they planned it next time they met so they would be able 'to have more time'. She stopped replying to his texts, but continued to send barely clothed photos of herself to him. They initially started talking because she vented about hooking up with someone prior who got feelings for her, then ghosted her. This one is obviously hearsay but still having a rough morning.
She is completely out of control of her own actions. Yes, she is an adult and can make these decisions, but this is like the first year of our marriage all over again in terms of her behavior.
My options, as I see it, are as follows:
1. Take charge and file for divorce myself to get some structure in place. 2. Consult with another attorney; hire if I feel custody may become nasty based on the initial consultation. 3. Talk to her father and show the example of her current cultivating lust behavior; in the past, he was all-in for staging an intervention to her addiction - note that this is probably the least likely choice I will make. 4. Call her out on lying? Simply dropping this guy's name would stop her dead in her tracks right now... but to what end? Addicts need to hit their own rock-bottom and I don't see this helping anything. 5. Wait a day and hang out with my DB support.
I'm scared for my D's sake here. If my W is a lost-cause, I do not want to waste a moment supporting my D's safety in whatever way possible.
Lumis, sorry you're going through this. She's a lying cheater like so many other waywards whose husbands end up here. Please wrap your mind around that. She lies, and she cheats. That's not someone you can trust, right? So don't. AS for your options:
1. Not yet. 2. Definitely. 3. No, absolutely not. 4. If you confront her then expect her to go deeper undercover with her activities, and to lie to your face about it. 5. Waiting is always a good idea if you're unsure how to proceed. It's also a good idea after a new "discovery".
I would also offer:
6. Go completely dark except for required contact about D. No pictures, no chummy texts, stick strictly to required business. GAL GAL GAL. Quit snooping, you know she lies and cheats so there's nothing more to learn from it.
1. Not yet. 2. Definitely. 3. No, absolutely not. 4. If you confront her then expect her to go deeper undercover with her activities, and to lie to your face about it. 5. Waiting is always a good idea if you're unsure how to proceed. It's also a good idea after a new "discovery". 6. Go completely dark except for required contact about D. No pictures, no chummy texts, stick strictly to required business. GAL GAL GAL. Quit snooping, you know she lies and cheats so there's nothing more to learn from it.
1. Filled the paperwork at least. I feel as if it's worth printing and providing it to her. She will not lift a finger with this unless I shove it into her lap. 2. I consulted with one prior. I could consult again, but frankly I know I'll hit a point where they'll either want me to hire them or hit the road. 3. Noted. 4. I don't know what my motivation would be here, other than to let her know that I know she is lying. I am really struggling here - I see signs of the addiction and I am having a hard time not seeing her as a suffering spouse. 5. I haven't taken action aside from filling out paperwork. 6. It's all business today, and I'm not digging. I'm at the bottom of the hole.
I am holding back... but all I want to do right now is text her saying:
"Please just ignore me and our relationship for a moment and listen; I am intimately familiar with how you act when you are struggling with your own personal demons, and really think that you are going through something that isn't healthy and is causing you to make choices that you will seriously regret later, as you have in the past. If this is correct, then you are not making yourself or your D proud, and you need to make the choice to get help. I am not telling you that I am the help you need, but I am always here for you."
I don't want to pursue full custody after agreeing to joint, however the current situation changes things in my mind. She makes BAD decisions when she is dealing with the sex/love addiction, and I am scared for our D.
