So I thought I was doing pretty well today - there was a lot of back and forth via text, and I'm trying to apply what I'm learning. Some of this will be summarized but if there's room for improvement, I'd love to know:
W: After I drop our D off tonight, I need to go into work, then come back and cut your hair?
Me: That is fine, sure. I'll have your cat ready with her carrier, food, and litter box. She will need dry food soon.
(Note - W has neglected to care for her animal since she left it with me; she has had the cat since she was 11 years old so this baffles me. I have asked multiple times in counseling and out for her to take it, and she has been putting it off, but agreed to after 8 weeks of counseling. This is why I did not ask this time, but rather asserted that she will be taking the cat tonight.)
W: Okay. [thumbs-up sign]
Me: How did you sleep?
W: I slept okay.
Me: Just okay? Our D sleep okay?
W: Yeah, she's great!
Me: That's good, you doing alright?
W: For the most part yeah.
Me: What's going on?
W: Just sad about stuff.
Me: Your sadness is just as valid as your anger and resentment; I'm here to listen with full attention if you want. I understand that you want a divorce. You know that is not what I want, but I will not stand in your way if you choose to follow through with it.
W: I think it will just take time to figure out what our new friendship/relationship is like.
(I started slipping here)
Me: That's what I was saying when I was asking you to come home. I didn't want, and don't want our old marriage, but I didn't expect everything to be wonderful immediately. You have been figuring that out for 2 months already and there is no rush to figure it out. There is no shame in feeling how you feel, whether it be doubting your decision or doubling down on it.
(tried to recover)
Me: Your feelings are valid. Feeling positive one day and negative another are equally valid. I am listening to every thought and feeling you share with me and I hear all of it.
W: Thank you for being open to listening. I don't really know what to say right now.
Me: I have always listened. I haven't necessarily understood what you were asking of me in the past, but I was always listening. I understand you want a divorce; this is not the path I would want to take to get through this. However, I will not stand in your way if you choose to follow through with a divorce.
(slipping again here)
Me: Remember that no option is off the table. We are mature adults and allowed to change our minds, for better or for worse. The only three people these decisions matter to are each of our and our D. Not counselors, parents, friends, or others.
W: That's all true.
Me: We are pretty good at reading each other but we are not mind readers and we've been missing the mark for a while. Your communication to me was not effectively received and it was both and neither of our fault equally. I am just as frustrated with this as you are- I never wanted you to have to walk out the door for me to understand you, but we are where we are.
(trying again to recover)
Me: I hope your day improves- I know you don't want my support; just know that I am always willing to be available, drop everything, and give you my full attention. You've been there in my lowest times and I'm always here for you as long as you'll allow it.
W: It's not that I don't want your support I just don't even know what I need from you right now.
(side note - she literally said "I don't want your support" less than a week ago... 'believe nothing you hear' is very real)
Me: That makes sense that you wouldn't know what you need from me. In your shoes I imagine I would be thinking 'how could the person making me angry and resentful also be the same person I would want support from?'. That's my limited view from the other side of this, but it makes sense that you feel that way.
Me: I will always be patient for you. I get where we are- we missed the mark big time. Whatever path you take to address that- I will accept it.
(mixed bag on this next bit... said too much but cleaned it up at the end)
Me: A friend recently reminded me that at one point, we loved each other enough to get married and bring a child into the world. We made those choices. Those are not impulsive decisions but real, mature, adult love. For me, knowing that trumps all challenges because I know what we are capable of. My feelings and my path - not standing in the way of yours, just being open about my feelings.
W: That's fine. I like knowing what you're thinking. How's work?
(some random talk here and then...)
W: I think we should file for legal separation. That probably makes the most sense for now.
Me: If that's what you want, I will not stand in your way.
W: Yes. I would like to do that as soon as we can. Maybe tonight we can look over the paperwork.
Me: We can go over it, yes.
W: Thank you. That would be good.
(some random talk about technical details that I understood about the process)
(more random talk including us agreeing that we did not want to hire attorneys and wanted to try to be amicable)
Me: Not looking forward to this and this is not the path I would have chosen, but if this is what you want after we go over it all, I won't fight you. I don't expect us to file this evening, I think we should both reflect on it a few days after filling it out. That is my feeling and I respect if your's differs. I have no personal reason to rush anything because all I'm devoting time to right now is myself and our D (she understands I have moral issues with dating before legally being divorced or separated).
W: Well that's what I'm doing, too. I don't expect to file today but want to be on the same page about the details.
Me: FWIW, I'm willing to work amicably as long as we need to without involving the court. This is not being 'in limbo' for me, and while it isn't fun, I have no pressing needs that our marriage is preventing me from doing. I will be a good father and good person to you regardless.
W: You know me. It feels like a weird grey area and I don't like that. I'm just feeling like I already know what I want to happen so I don't want to wait and give you false hope.
Me: It isn't giving me false hope. Your feelings and dedication to this are valid and real to me. It's not the path I would take, but I'm not standing in your way.
W: Okay. I know this is all really weird and I'm sorry for that.
(poured out a lot in the next bit, but I don't necessarily think it was bad...)
Me: The problems we have are not going to be resolved in 8 weeks; not together, separated, or divorced. I have always been in it for the long haul because I see this as a marathon, not a sprint. I hear and understand your concerns about feeling like this is a grey area and I am sorry you feel that way.
Changes in legal status will not affect the fact that you are still my friend, teammate in raising our child, and someone I care for. The grey area is 8 years of your life talking; not our legal ties.
I imagine you are trying to make changes that will make you happy. If I were in your shoes, I don't think that moving out would have made me happy, getting a parenting plan in place wouldn't have made me happy, and getting a divorce wouldn't make me happy. Time is what it took for me in the past. Nothing else healed better than time and forgiveness.
This is weird and sad, yes. It's not the path I would have chosen to take.
W: I still want to communicate and work on forgiveness so we can maintain a good relationship. We will be connected forever. However I don't have any interest in staying married. I know you don't agree with my or think it's best to split up. But it is. I'm sure of that.
(taking a deep breath here... things felt like there were wishy-washy until this last message...)
Me: I know; what you're feeling is real and valid. It isn't the path I would want to take but I'm not going to stand in your way. This will not change.
With respect, I think I probably would have ended this conversation after she gave you the thumbs up emoji regarding the cat right at the beginning. My observation is that you led this somewhere it didn't need to go after that point. Irrespective, if she had led this line of talk, I think the balance of what she said could have been met by you with just a lot of 'm-hmm, go on' and pensive facial and hand gestures.
I of course stand to be corrected by the vets if I'm wrong here.
In my sitch, after BD 7 months ago, I think I told my XW about 3 times something along the lines of "I accept your decision, and wish it weren't so', and I think that was probably 2 times too many.
There's sticky validation and Sandi's rules threads which I recommend you read.
Good luck mate
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Way too much talking Lumis. Right at the very beginning of the conversation you started with the questions...if she wanted to open up and talk to you she would have. The conversation should have ended after she said: "okay (thumbs up sign)".
When you are telling her your thoughts on things it's adding pressure for her to make a decision. If she had to make a decision right now it wouldn't include you in her future (at this moment) so you need to stop putting that on her.
Detach, GAL and don't let her cut your hair. When she comes in you say: "Don't worry about my hair, there is a new barber I'd like to try but thanks for offering".
I'm no DB Pro either but I'm learning alot from reading other peoples situations. I also try to talk about things too much and its NEVER helped no matter what I say. Actions speak louder than words. She knows you don't want this but she probably feels like she's drowning and she'll do anything to breathe. So give her space and let her breathe. Focus on yourself and make some positive changes that may intrigue her. If not, down the road they'll intrigue someone else.
You can do this.
H 37 W 31 S 2
T: 7 M: 4
BD 12/18 Separated 2/19 Living back together 04/06/2019 W Moved out again 07/15/2019
H: "Don't worry about my hair, there is a new barber I'd like to try but thanks for offering. Stay later at work if you need." then get in car and go someplace. Do not linger. Drive to park or a dinner.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
If you have time, go get your hair cut before D is dropped off.
I'd actually make this a priority, get it cut to a different style, style it, get dressed up, but look slightly dishevelled, so when she arrives with D it looks like he's just got back from some exciting outing. Maybe even be busy on the phone when she arrives, and wave her off politely with hand gestures. If I were the W, I'd probably be expecting a continuation of this conversation upon arrival with D.
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Wow, I was shooting for a C, maybe C- and failed miserably.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Most LBS talk way to much. Less words are always better. Give her time and space.
Got it.
She got to the house like 15 minutes early (scheduled only 30 minutes after I'm done at work) so no time to get the hair cut earlier. She walked in and gave me a hug and kiss, then went back into work immediately. She will be coming back in 2 hours or so. The hair cut is just part of it - she wants to go over paperwork this evening. I'm going to try to limit tonight's talk to the parenting plan as I have it printed and filled. Honestly, that's all I'll be able to handle in one sitting.
Should I decline the haircut in person or text in advance saying I'll get it cut elsewhere? This is definitely something that she will find unusual or shocking. Another style isn't an option unless I grow it out for a few years... my hair style is either right or wrong. The other issue - declining the haircut will piss her off. Pissed off W before trying to agree on parenting plans seems iffy at best.
The other issue - declining the haircut will piss her off. Pissed off W before trying to agree on parenting plans seems iffy at best.
Ok, I think you should just focus solely on the parenting plan and spend as much time on that, then when she raises the haircut say dont worry, we've gone over time with the important stuff and I'm too tired etc etc. Don't telegraph that ahead of time - just focus on the important stuff, go over time, then decline the haircut, but only if she raises it.
Tomorrow, find a barber and get it cut - call ahead and see if they are good with fine hair. I'm assuming her getting 'p'd off' is just her nature? I think she'll need to start recognising the shock value in that you now have some independence, including the right to get your hair cut elsewhere.
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Ok, I think you should just focus solely on the parenting plan and spend as much time on that, then when she raises the haircut say dont worry, we've gone over time with the important stuff and I'm too tired etc etc. Don't telegraph that ahead of time - just focus on the important stuff, go over time, then decline the haircut, but only if she raises it.
Tomorrow, find a barber and get it cut - call ahead and see if they are good with fine hair.
This ^^^
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
