Curtis. Isn't it amazing how they refuse to take accountability or responsibility for the consequences and outcomes due to their decisions and actions? She has had to distance herself from family and friends of moral standards that are judging her and slut shaming her for her actions. She even says herself, despite her clearly knowing that you know that there are 3 other men, she attempts to falsely and arrogantly justify her actions, and falsely socially lift herself up on a social pedestal thus contradicting herself by saying "There are not other men, don't make me out to be a f'in whore." OM3 is giving her parenting advice, is treating her poorly, and she is even rebelling to some degree against him. (Most likely for him giving her unsolicited advise on parenting, which feels like another form of control to her.) But is still considering him an option, even though she contradicts herself that it won't work because he is two hours away. Based off her divorced BFF H and BFF's experience and validation of seeing herself, her feelings, and circumstances in her BFF, she is comparing him to you as being controlling because you set clear, good and healthy boundaries as well as responsibility since she fired you as her H as far as the Horse and the property is concerned.
Her opinion of your changes is again re-writing of marital history, and after so many years of "her knowing you, your behaviors, and habits" she is convinced that your attempts to change, or lack of change is only to manipulate them back into a relationship or M. They are convinced because of their experiences over long periods of time and past events. Right, wrong, good, bad, or indifferent. The irony of this is that they themselves do not realize that they have changed too. They took their vows based on their feelings on their wedding day, and not on actual principles or values.
They have bought the narrative from validation from outside sources and influences, such as family members, books, divorced BFF, IC, D attorney, etc. They seek people similar to how they ae currently feeling. Validation I've noticed, although I am poor at it, I've realized something about it. It coincides with confidence. Confidence of the WAW to leave the M based on their own self worth, and their worth of the opinion of their social peers, (which is underlyingly and probably more important to them then then the opinion of themselves.) They have this confidence to leave because they are unhappy, and don't want to feel or be controlled, submissive, or be obedient to their husband, hence the term "Wayward" They have no respect for you because of your behaviors, but also if you look carefully to their actions and not their words, they have no respect or worth for themselves. (The same goes for us too.) I can confidently state this as a solid opinion because everyone seems to be looking for their happiness and purpose outside of themselves, rather than within. Yes we all want freedom, experiences, novelty, purpose, and goal achievements. But unless we do the work and they as well on ourselves we will all keep repeating the same patterns in our future relationships.
They seek reassurance from sources that boost their confidence that they are making the right decisions, without really examining the sources, their morals, principles, or values. Validation without the solid principles or morals can lead someone astray in the long term. Validation is a two way street I've noticed that needs to be handled delicately. You want to in a sense acknowledge their feelings without coming across as disingenuous, but not actually cement their feelings as fact, with you assuming the accountability and responsibility of their feelings for why they think you did XY and Z wrong from past experiences. By all means take accountability to correct those things as your 180's but do not let your WW make you take the entire blame for the M failure. (Most likely they're going to take as little accountability as possible and hold you responsible for the failure because it's all about them right now, playing victim status to the M while at the same time justifying their irresponsible behavior.)
They're going to repeat these mistakes over and over again looking for confidence in another person in a relationship, slowly undermine the other person's confidence in the R, and the other person, and then start taking them apart once the honeymoon phase ends, never being satisfied and then they are going to go to the next person, and the next person and so on.
The next time you have a discussion with WW about anything other than logistics or kids, D procedure, or just anything casual in passing, Especially if its about OM1, OM2 or OM3 SHUT IT DOWN, HANGUP OR WALK AWAY. You are not her therapist, and it is well past the point of no return have you listening to her other than for a business transaction, because that's all she used to treating you as is a business transaction between the division of all your stuff, the divorce papers, and the kids. I think you're doing a hell of a job though putting things into action as far as making changes, a lot better than I am. You are doing a good job. Just make sure to keep your self-respect intact.
Curtis, you're on page 11 so time for a new thread!
Originally Posted by curtis7
Early last week, WW was contacted by OM2 (25 year old pickup artist AP) asking how she was doing. She replied she was thinking of contacting him the night before to see how he was doing but chickened out. They also discussed OM3 and she replied how he snapped a couple times on her, but she would keep going back to him as she said the problem is he is very...persuasive.
Then she texted OM2: "To be honest I was in a bad place for awhile. My pure selfishness hit me hard. Ugly and shameful. I'm so sorry. I really appreciate you telling me you're okay."
How do you know so much detail about their convos? You already know she's engaging in affairs. So don't snoop, because it'll just drive you crazy and you won't learn anything you don't already know.
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I really don't know what to make of this exchange with OM2. She clearly is still thinking of him and OM3. I just don't see her going full NC on her own. I've given her the benefit of the doubt so often since BD and I'm really over it.
First what you need to make of it is she is having an affair. She's cheating on you. She's done with you. So you need to react accordingly. You seem to be hanging onto this idea that she's still one foot in the M, well she's not. She's a full-blown wayward with both feet out the door. Maybe she'll come back some day but not anytime soon. Second, benefit of the doubt? Why would you give your cheating W the benefit of the doubt? She's cheating! I'm sorry if my driving that point home hurts, but it seems like you're in denial over how serious this is.
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She needs to do the hard work. Even tonight I'm spinning a bit on whether to extend an olive branch and tell her that I will listen to her explanation about OM3.
She's not going to do any hard work, medium work or even easy work for a long time. Let go of the idea that she's coming around soon, she's not. As for an explanation on OM3, why bother. An affair is an affair is an affair. There is no "explanation" that can reason it away.
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That lasted for about 10 minutes, before I concluded that it will probably be more lies.
Yes, lying and secrecy (withholding of information is another form of lying) go hand-in-hand with affairs.
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Who knows, I'm not a mind reader, does anyone think I should give her the benefit of the doubt and allow her to explain? If it is less than full disclosure or contains lies, then I end the call/talk immediately? Or do I let this marinate longer and let her come back to me if she ever wants to explain herself?
None of that. YOU work on YOU. Detach. GAL. Leave her alone. You've got to build some distance between the two of you before she might start to miss you. And I don't mean 48 hours of NC! We're talking months of little to no contact.
Start a new thread and link both threads together.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16 PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18 PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19 R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20 W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
