It's not surprising at all. You're putting way too much pressure and getting into arguments with her. Don't try to force reality on her. That will happen on its own. You need to tighten up your game. Have you read DB?
I just read your thread. I recommend going back and reading what Sandi2 posted to you.
You have a lot of work to do on yourself. Stay focused on your personal growth. I believe you need to learn to set boundaries. Your boundaries are weak.
I have more I want to say, but I think that is enough for now.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I'm reading and understanding what is being left for me. I'm learning; slowly, but learning.
Today was awful. After last night, I figured it wouldn't be too bad but before counseling, she came over and said that she was done, and was going to make this clear in counseling and would not budge on it. Not the first time this was said... but this was heavy.
I told her that she underestimated how messy this would likely get and she asked what I meant. I said that since she was done, my priority would 100% be on my D, and that I would be petitioning for full custody given my W's actions and decisions over the last year. I made it clear that I still wanted to have 50:50 parenting time. Despite the last bit, this went over as well as expected. In counseling she explained that this was effectively me 'going back to my old ways' and trying to control her. She said this firmed up her decision to end the marriage.
The counselor made some good points about joint custody being beneficial for keeping everyone positive (as much as can be, at least) long-term. I really feel like I messed up big time, today. That said, if one emotionally-fueled statement ended the marriage, I feel as if I would step on a land-mine soon enough in another way, anyhow.
Feeling really down tonight, as much as I could use coaching, any kind words are all I really need at the moment. I'm trying to keep sight on a light at the end of this tunnel but my stomach is in knots and I'm just scared for the uncertainty of the future.
Thank you everyone who has posted, even if it's just to tell me to pull my head out of my butt... I'm trying to maintain a support network but I'm also trying not to be too much of a sad sack to everyone around me.
Lumis... let her go to (possibly) get her back. It is your only option at this point. Basic human nature...you always want what you can’t have or, at least, what you think is difficult for you to get. You also don’t want to be around someone who makes you feel pressured and that is the effect you have on your W right now. Stop having R talks. Just stop. When she is around, be validating and kind but be busy being you...the you your W fell in love with in the first place.
I totally get the fear factor. Been there. Fear is just that...a worry your mind has created. A year later, the fear has subsided and life has begun. Not the life I wanted or planned for but the life that I have. Start living the life that you have for you and for your daughter. Also...if I were you, I would take a break on the MC until you both have the same goal. She is uncertain and MC is just making her more aware of that and feeling more pressure. Let her go. Stop the pressure and stop reminding her that she doesn’t want you right now...because she doesn’t. Not right now. That could change but not if you keep pressuring her and making emotionally charged statements and threats. That is the fear talking, not the rational you who wants the best for your daughter.
I KNOW how hard this is. Everyone posting on here does. We’ve all been there. It will get better if you do the things we are suggesting. (((HUGS)))
DejaVu6 - just the reply I needed to hear; thank you.
I am trying to avoid R talks, but we will be physically face-to-face every 2-3 days for the next 16 years or so, and at the moment, I feel as if I'm being baited into arguments over nothing. This is how the majority of the R talks begin... for instance, before counseling last Friday, she literally said something like 'I'm going to say hurtful things in counseling today'. And then yes, I took the bait out of fear. The correct response would have probably been something like 'well I'm interested in hearing what you have to say with our counselor present'... or something.
I hear you on the MC - we have switched from weekly to every two weeks and the focus is intended to be our communication for the benefit of our child. What the W seems to want changes on a day-to-day lately. The idea of stopping the MC is a little scary as it is certainly helping in some of the problems we have.
The idea of sole custody was made out of fear, but I wouldn't call it irrational fear. I thought long and hard in my alone time about the pros and cons, and while I think the idea does have some merit for the best interest of our D, I think I'd be shutting the door on many potential benefits of joint custody, such as family time together whenever the W is willing. The MC helped quite a bit in pointing out things I wasn't considering here.
The bachelor party and team building thing at my work went well, but I did have bouts of major depression that hit me like a hammer a few times through both. This morning I was able to get some fishing in (at the bachelor party rental home which was on a river) and it was pretty relaxing. I hadn't really fished before aside from when I was really really young, and it definitely helped my mood. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I needed to leave the party a day early to pick-up my D. This was my choice as the W would have been willing to provide care - I'm trying to use all the time I can with my D since I've noticed travel, sleep, and nap time all take up massive chunks of the time blocks we each have.
In counseling Friday, we agreed to not date or pursue romantic relationships until the legal split (whatever it ended up being) was finalized. This was something I requested on purely moral grounds; obviously she will do whatever she wants, but she seemed to indicate that it was the last thing on her radar and not a problem.
I saw her briefly today when I picked up my D. She seemed to be in a better mood than she was in counseling yesterday. I tried to stick to technical details such as when we could sit down and review the court documents, how she wanted to approach healthcare, etc. We considered a legal separation so she could stay on the healthcare plan and just pay me the difference each month; this would be a short-term solution until the next enrollment period. She then brought up the topic of dating and indicated she might not want to wait until things are finalized. I essentially told her that I couldn't stop her nor would I try, but that I absolutely had some ground rules that would form a morality clause in our paperwork. We agreed on these points (which I expected) - basically, no one is allowed to have a new partner stay over when our D is in the same home and our D cannot meet new partners until a minimum of 6 months of exclusive dating. Any concessions would need to be agreed upon in writing.
In short, I'm trying to work through this as amicably as possible with her. Today ended much better than it started. It is getting better day-by-day even just implementing parts of what is being suggested, but the biggest challenge comes in the form of getting knocked back to the ground again over and over by new waves of things getting worse. I'm emotionally drained this evening, but I bet I'll get a good night's sleep.
I'm curious, when you say 'we've all been there' - is my situation really no more ridiculous than anyone else on here? I'm down in the weeds feeling like her leaving me via e-mail saying she wants to end the marriage, followed by weeks of coming home, telling me it is forever, wanting another baby, and then going back to wanting to end the marriage all in the course of 2 months time is just insanity. The sex I get - people get horny and it was a booty call for both of us... but the extreme mental flip-flopping and talking about having another kid just blows my mind.
It seems as if every time I read through it, more of the boxes are checked. We're up to a solid 25 of 30 which is disheartening given what I understand about MLC... but I'm starting to feel myself let go. Just an observation - not dwelling on this, but I am trying to keep myself sharp due to my D being under her care. Some of the MLC stuff is downright scary.
I am trying to formulate a game plan here, because I feel as if I'm tackling too many fronts at once (the biggest time sink is obviously not being able to detach effectively yet).
My cycle is currently this:
I have a few days where nothing got worse, and I start to settle into a comfortable zone, start to get a little bored, and really start to try and make plans with friends, etc.
Sometimes I follow-through on plans, but I oftentimes feel a deep low after the activity offers a distraction. I get thoughts like 'I can't wait to tell my W about th.... oh yeah, I forgot'. This in and of itself is a short-term low, but what really gets me is when she texts something like 'I miss you guys' while I have our D. This makes me feel good, and then inevitably a few days later, she drops another bomb such as last Friday's 'I've made up my mind 100% on ending the R'.
Her behavior over the next few days usually feels extremely fake, like she is acting. She makes it a point to ignore texts about very important things (money, bills, child care) and when I call her out on it saying something like 'I realize where we are at, but we are still parents and need to discuss this', she oftentimes replies with 'yes, you're right' and then loosens up a little, for lack of better words.
Side note - her saying things like 'that's a good point' or 'you're right' have ALWAYS coincided with a moment of clarity for her when I simply restate our reality over the last two months. For example:
I offered that after she got off work, she might come over and cut my hair and just hang out and watch some TV or something. The haircut thing was pushed off from the other day and frankly, my hair is not easy to cut... she doesn't want anyone else to cut it and I don't blame her. Aside from her work, I've hated 90% of haircuts I've gotten in my life.
W: 'I can probably come over and cut your hair. I'm a little confused why you want to spend quality time though besides family time'
Me: 'Why are you confused?'
W: 'Because we are not together anymore?'
Me: 'I recognize where we are at, but you are still my friend, my teammate in raising our child, and someone I care for. This isn't a high school breakup, we haven't been together in over a month but there are still days we've spent time together because we both felt like it.'
W: 'That's a good point. You're right'
Me: 'So it was an offer, that's it. I wanted to watch TV with my friend, so I offered.'
W: 'And you need a haircut lol'
Me: 'Yes I do, and you're the only one I trust [cutting my hair]. If you're not feeling it, just say so - I can handle it.'
She didn't come over last night, and I didn't expect her to. That said, she did text at 9 PM saying she was leaving work and asked what our D and I were up to. I said we were getting dinner, sent a picture of our D, and left it at that. She texted again at 11 PM asking if I was awake and then said 'maybe I can come cut your hair tomorrow?'. I said that it sounded good to me, and she said she forgot her supplies at the salon last night. I simply replied that it wasn't a big deal, and that was it for texting last night.
Emotionally, I know that I've backed off from her a LOT. After the BD, I was at an 11/10 for hounding her with R talk, and I'm at like maybe a 2/10 now. She DOES tend to bait/trap me when R talk does start, but I'm learning to see that better before it becomes a race to the bottom. I'm having a difficult time discerning between detaching in a healthy way and completely ignoring her. Good example - if she says she misses me, I say 'I miss you too'. I feel as if that's acceptable given she initiated... but I'm not sure.
When we exchange our child, I give her a big hug, because I want to act 'as-if' without pushing the limits (sometimes I kiss her on the cheek and I'm working on knocking that off!), and still be cordial. I explained to her that I would still be cordial to her in front of our D, and if she couldn't reciprocate, that I just ask she be civil.
This morning specifically, she came over, I gave her a hug, and we sat with our D while she ate breakfast. I made it a point to leave fairly quickly saying I should head to work, and she seemed just a teeny-tiny bit surprised. Gave my D a kiss, said I loved her, gave my W a hug, and took off.
This thread has helped me a little over the weekend; specifically, Hurt213's post:
Today I've been trying to stay away from the W in terms of texting, etc. and I really don't know how to reply when she texts things like "you doing okay today?"
Little advice? It's like every time I back off she tries to initiate contact. She just sent a picture of her and our D as I was typing this out...
My suggestion is wait several hours to reply, then something like "All good thanks", or just that thumbs up emoji.
Your haircut incident brought memories - my XW used to cut mine in the way she liked. I didn't mind the style, but preferred my old style - happy wife, happy life, right?
Anyway, I go to a barber regularly now. You should too. Get the cut you want, and get a shampoo as well - it'll make you feel better. My hair is unruly too. A good barber will work with you to get the style you want.
Don't get your XW to cut your hair anymore. Do not ask her to do any of these things, nor hug, kiss etc unless it is initiated by her. As R2C told me, seduce her back.
If you haven't already, I'd read Robx's posts from years ago. I found them remarkable.
I see you like fishing - what gear have you got and what do you chase?
Good luck mate!
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
My suggestion is wait several hours to reply, then something like "All good thanks", or just that thumbs up emoji.
Appreciate this!
Originally Posted by DS9
Your haircut incident brought memories - my XW used to cut mine in the way she liked. I didn't mind the style, but preferred my old style - happy wife, happy life, right?
Anyway, I go to a barber regularly now. You should too. Get the cut you want, and get a shampoo as well - it'll make you feel better. My hair is unruly too. A good barber will work with you to get the style you want.
My hair is extremely fine... like every barber/stylist I've had in my life has had trouble with it - it isn't that she's cutting it the way she likes it... it's the fact that she's had 8 years of practice.
Originally Posted by DS9
Don't get your XW to cut your hair anymore. Do not ask her to do any of these things, nor hug, kiss etc unless it is initiated by her. As R2C told me, seduce her back.
I'll let her cut it this time, then find someone new. I do know that this will piss her off... not looking forward to it, but I understand what you're telling me.
I'll challenge you one time on this - I hug her because I want my D to see her parents hugging. The hugs aren't weird and they are co-initiated about 50% of the time right now. Both of us came from homes with parents that are still together and my parents rarely showed physical affection to each other. For my D's benefit, I would rather hug an ex-wife than not hug a wife. I hug my friends, male or female, and if worse came to worse and W and I split, and eventually became involved with other people, I would still hug her in front of my D.
The kisses I will stop - it's been a challenge but I can definitely do that going forward.
Originally Posted by DS9
If you haven't already, I'd read Robx's posts from years ago. I found them remarkable.
I will look these up, thank you.
Originally Posted by DS9
I see you like fishing - what gear have you got and what do you chase?
Honestly this was the first time in my adult life I've fished. I enjoyed it, and the gear I was using belonged to a friend. He said I was really good and I was pulling up bass every third cast or so. I don't know if I'd make it a new hobby, but it was very relaxing and if I didn't have to decide between time with my D and doing it for a few more hours, I would have kept at it!
Ok got you with the hair. I wonder why she would want to keep doing this? Just before my bd my xw started ironing my shirts. After, she announced I’d have to start doing that as though she’d been doing it for years!
Got you with the hugs too and the background. My angle was from a totally different sitch. At bd for us all affection stopped immediately and this from multiple daily touching kisses hugs grabs gropes etc. my son noticed the lack of affection and it was heartbreaking, and very hard for me too, given the flick of a switch change.
Get into the gym immediately so when she does hug you, you feel physically different and wear cologne.
I’m glad you enjoyed fishing- there’s nothing like the rush of a screaming reel!
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
