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A Message from Michele
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We interrupt your normally scheduled life... #2861572
08/16/19 03:10 AM
08/16/19 03:10 AM
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Yail Offline OP
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...for a TRANSITION period.

Former thread found here.

Overview:

Yail: 34 yo female
W: 45 yo female
Together: 10 years, married 1 (well...approaching 2 "technically")
BD: Spring 2018, followed by tense summer
W moved out of state for new job: October 2018
W asked for D: November 2018
Current: House sold, Yail is moving to an apartment. Still no legal paperwork, but it has been discussed and will likely revolve around sale of house.


I'm awaiting my transitional roller coaster. Not a roller coaster from W, but one from life. The house sold quickly, and W gave me less than a month's notice that I needed to leave. So I need to be out by August 25th when I had planned on October based on multiple prior conversations.

Could I fight it? yes. And I considered it and consulted my lawyer. But by the time it came around to court I'd be in my new apartment anyway, and it would just rack up costs and waste everyone's times. So once again I must "play nice". But I do agree it would be a waste of time to fight this.

So I had an apartment for October in line. I reached out to my soon-to-be landlady, and the current tenant can move out early (yay!) so I can move in at least by September 16th. There's a possibility she will be gone by September 2nd, it's just not confirmed yet (double yay!).

I may only have a 9 night gap in housing, in which case I will stay with my dear friend. If it is longer than that I'll need to find alternate arrangements because I don't want to jeopardize a friendship by overstaying my welcome. I adore my friend, but we tend to fight over dumb stuff. Opposites attract? she's a great friend and stretches me. But living with her would be a whole different ballgame!

So now I'm packing the house. I swore I wouldn't do this by myself or do W any favors. But know what? I'm selling furniture she'd be putting in the dump. I just can't stand things being thrown away when they have a good use. I don't care about the money, I just really care about the environmental impact. So yes, I'm taking care of things I swore I wouldn't. But it makes me feel better, so I figure it's okay because I'm doing it for me.

I'm intrigued my my new apartment. I don't know if I love it or hate it. I think I'll have to see once I'm in it. I live in a college town, so rent is HIGH. And I found a place in a highly desirable neighborhood, so it's a bit "eh" in terms of condition and aesthetic. But I think I can make it work.

In Fall I have one more class for my Web Programming Certificate. In January I think I'll start my Masters and get an MBA. I'm pleased with my decision.

I also may need to get a second job, as my budget will be tight with the new apartment. An extra $150/month would do wonders for me, so I'm sure I can find something.

Everything feels hopeful and up in the air. I don't know what's next. But this is my transition time, and I'm walking in to it with my eyes wide open with wonder.

Last edited by Yail; 08/16/19 03:10 AM.
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2861595
08/16/19 11:36 AM
08/16/19 11:36 AM
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AnotherStander Offline
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Hey Yail, haven't checked in for a while, very sorry to read about your recent struggles but I really love the vibe towards the end of your last thread, sounds like you're sorting through things and finding yourself! Hopefully now that the house is sold and once you get moved into a new place you'll quickly settle into your "new normal" and feel more secure. Until then there's probably going to be more frustration and anger and resentment, just remember to let it out and not bottle it up! You can do this!


Me: 58 w/ S16, D22, D25
Current R: 4 years
Previous M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:56
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: AnotherStander] #2861597
08/16/19 11:56 AM
08/16/19 11:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 641
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Yail Offline OP
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Thank you AS! In the grand scheme of things I'm feeling GOOD this week. After the initial shock that I was kinda (*bleeped*) over with the quick sell date I got to work ironing out my life. I can do this.

It's about a week until classes start on campus, so work is all buzzing with excitement of a new year and a new class. That's such a great vibe to be surrounded by. It's exciting, it's fun, there's a lot of teamwork and good communication happening. So while it's bad timing to move because I'm busy, it's also good timing for a move because I'm in a very positive mental place. That makes a big difference!

Also I've put out my need for temporary housing to a few folks on campus I'm close to. I've been blown away by the responses. People truly want to help me out. Offering space at their own homes, asking friends, making inquiries. I feel so loved and cared for. In the past I would have never shared that I was looking for a place to stay. I would have been embarrassed, or felt it was private and I shouldn't talk about it. I'm trying to open up my life and it feels really good.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2861696
08/16/19 11:25 PM
08/16/19 11:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
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Yail Offline OP
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FS, I wanted to respond to your note. You always know JUST what to say. I can honestly say I've missed you on your hiatus! Glad you popped back in though. I know we can't all be here forever, but it's just so nice to have a friendly face.

Some of what you wrote was just so spot-on. You really hit it.

About the house:

Originally Posted by FlySolo
And then it was just yours. The place where you broke down. The place where you healed. And part of that healing process is making your home your sanctuary. The place where you started to feel safe again, where you shut off the world and turned inwards.


I did feel exactly this way. I transitioned. It was a place I hid in when it was too much to bear. Then it was a place I felt safe in. And now I am becoming so strong, and I am okay to leave it. I can't grow here anymore. So while I am sad to leave this house, it hasn't been "our" home in nearly a year. I'm ready for a home again. I will certainly miss my neighbors though - they're wonderful people. I hope to see them around town.


And about my feelings:
Originally Posted by FlySolo
There is also a perceived lack of control. ... The same lack of control you felt when she left.


I have always had issues with control. I've always been fully in control of myself, and I expect a certain degree of control in my surroundings. I am learning to let this go, and to let come what may. I have come to embrace and laugh in the chaos. This is perhaps the biggest lesson of all for me. My desire for "happily ever after" isn't enough to manifest it.

I notice my own growth as W and I volley the occasional logistical email back and forth. When she has a plan that contradicts mine I no longer get worked up. Some things are her decisions to make, and I need to allow that. Similarly, when there is something I need to speak up for I do so. I control only myself. Before I needed to control the "situation" (if I say ___ in ____ way, will she react with a _____ emotion and then I can do _____". No more. I have no more emotions when she emails or texts. I feel I am truly letting go.


Originally Posted by FlySolo
I got a second piercing (on my ear) and am also thinking of getting another tattoo. I saw on a shirt with "we are the grand daughters of the witches you weren't able to burn" and I am thinking of getting that tattooed down my right side. My H would go ballistic but, f him.


YEEESSSSS. I love that quote, I've seen it around. I still plan on getting a bouquet of flowers on my upper thigh. But if I did get a quote, I think I'd go with "What didn't they do to bury me/ But they forgot that I was a seed".


******

In other (silly, non-W related) news...

* I'm playing a frantic game of "Eat down the pantry" before the move. Today was a winner. I had a ton of cheese from Italy (from my farm I worked at. It had been vacuum packed and recently opened). Also had some phyllo dough. some asparagus. Bacon. So I made the most amazing tart for dinner. Also goat cheese/fig/phyllo desserts. I'm feeling very spoiled.

I forgot how much I like to cook. Perhaps I will return to cooking in the Fall. It was too emotional to cook beautiful meals for only one person last year. I think I'm back.

* I connected with a local classical musician I used to work with and only knew casually. She had some business at the college I work for. What fun conversations we had! Yet another potential friend out there in the world that just solidifies the fact that I actually am a social person at heart. I had no idea.

*Ahh, the cutie at work. I realized it's only when she is by herself that she is slightly flirty. She's completely dead-pan and business-only when there is anyone else around. I find that telling, but I don't know what that's telling. I'm intrigued, but not so desperately crushing as I was before. I feel normal around her these days. Still wouldn't mind a bit more though.

* I am expertly avoiding and procrastinating at packing just because packing is no fun at all. That's why there's a long update. I'd much rather eat my goat cheese tart and play on the computer.

Well, boo. I don't think I can procrastinate much more. I have so much packing to do and positively zero desire to do it. Onward!

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2862150
08/20/19 10:47 PM
08/20/19 10:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
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Yail Offline OP
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It is moving week. Also Orientation on campus (work) which is one of the biggest events of the year. So Yail is a bit overworked, over-caffeinated, over-sugared, and under-slept. A recipe for stress, but I think I'm doing okay considering all that's going on.

Although, I just bought a ton of ice cream and donuts to bring to work tomorrow "for my students". Yeah. Ok. They're for me. I'm just gonna share.

I still don't know if I can move into my new apartment by September 2nd vs September 16th and that's a major stress to me. I reached out to my landlord to check-in, but no response yet. So I'll be couch-surfing for a while, and I just don't know how long. That kind of thing makes me really anxious. If I could get a confirmed September 2nd move-in I would be SO happy.

I had movers come yesterday and move the furniture I am taking into storage. For those of you that are working decently amicably with your STBXS: I suggest using "Google Sheets" to divide petty assets such as furniture. I made a list of what was in each room, and split it into "I want" "I'm considering" and "Don't want". I then shared it with W and we negotiated a few items. The good thing about Google Sheets is it is trackable, so you can see who made what edits at what time. She emailed that she approved of all the furniture I wanted, so everything was in writing. I feel good about that.

Here's one thing that has me oddly upset:

I tried to sell some stuff on Craigslist to help get rid of furniture I knew W wouldn't want. It's stuff she had gotten second hand in the first place. She has been gone for 10 months, most of it no-contact, and hasn't mentioned these pieces at all. She has taken most all that she wants, and has let me know that she won't be taking much else, and she let me know what she does want. I let her know I was trying to get rid of "extra" stuff she wouldn't want by finding new homes for it so it wouldn't end up in the dumpster. W has a tendency to dispose of things she doesn't want.

The response surprised me a bit. She said she realized that 80% of the house is stuff she has accumulated through the years (true) and it was her responsibility to get rid of it. She asked that she have the opportunity to do so, and that I not give it away - that she will.

Well, that makes it easier for me.

I was surprised by her stance. I really thought she'd want it all gone so she wouldn't have to deal with it. Before this communication I had committed 2 pieces of furniture to Craigslist buyers. I now feel incredibly guilty about this, and I shouldn't! She has given me 2 weeks notice to be out of the house, and I'm trying to help and have asked her multiple times what she wants from the house. She kept saying "you tell me what you want first". So she has no desire for these pieces. But I feel bad that I didn't check with her before selling. Why do I feel so guilty about this stupid thing!

And I'm leaving the cash for her. She bought them, she can have the $40.

Here's the other thing that's bugging me:

I don't know who will be with W here in the house as she is doing her final clean out. All of my stuff will be gone, so I don't have to worry about anyone rifling through my things except for maybe a suitcase of clothing. No one will touch my stuff. Plus, I need to remember this is legally W's house, so I can't dictate who is here and who isn't on the very weekend that it is changing ownership. This is not my house. I need to remember this. It is no longer my home.

But I'm sick to my stomach with the idea that OW might be in the house to help W move. That's the one thing that still has me crazy about this whole thing - anything to do with the OW. It sends me to the brink of tears and a gut wrenching feeling.

W is gone and I am mostly okay with this. Letting her go is easy when I know I will not run into her around town. I live my life as I please. I'm even a little relieved that I won't run into OW around town since she moved to (presumably) be with W. I'll take that silver lining. But the thought of her in MY HOUSE has me enraged.

But I don't think I should ask or dictate to W that I don't want her in the house. I think seeing as Saturday is my LAST night here, what would that accomplish? I think it would only pull up emotions, start a fight. I don't want to fight. I want her to go away so I can continue to heal, and remember as much good about our R as I can.

So maybe my solution is that I make Friday night my last night in the house. Maybe I ask if I can stay with my brother on Saturday, and then I won't have to worry about it. If I don't come back to the house I don't need to care who is in it.


Sorry for the rambling all, these are the thoughts in Yail's brain these days. This weekend will be one giant leap forward. Then into my new apartment will be the other part of that leap. And lastly, the D. Whenever W gets around to filing. I'm hoping for some clarity on that this weekend as well.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2862680
08/24/19 08:27 PM
08/24/19 08:27 PM
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Yail Offline OP
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Today is my last night in the house. I'm wrapping up packing.

I have done two smart things.

1) I went to an event on campus last night so I wouldn't spend the night sad in my big empty house. This was a great idea, even though I felt like such a total dork showing up by myself to an event intended for students. I was encouraged to go by a few other staff people, so I felt invited. The program was funny, engaging, and kept my mind off of my current insanity. I was laughing out loud. I also got to talk to colleagues from campus, so a bit of social time. It was a very good push for me in my social life and I'm pretty proud of myself. I woke up today in a good mood.

2) I asked my family to go to the Fair with me tonight. I know it's a rough day for me. Leaving this house, the last bit of our R, is hard. So I need to have fun with my loved ones. I know this will keep me positive all the way through the end.

I saw W today as we discussed a few items to divide. I was shocked (but don't think I showed it) to see she has an engagement ring on her finger. I think she knows I saw it. she was keeping her hand in her pocket a lot. So not only did she leave me less than a year ago, but she's also apparently engaged to OW.

This did anger me and make me kind of sad. But not in a "I want her back" kind of way. I'm mourning what we could have had. But I don't want this person I see - I don't know her. She isn't attractive to me. And I think the fact that she's (likely) engaged before even being divorced or even separated a year shows she's in crisis. I mean, dating? Sure I kinda can see that since we've been separated 10 months. I myself am on the cusp of considering what dating might look like, but I'm not there yet. I know I'm not there yet.

I think what through me for a loop is just how much of a script this is following. If I had heard this would be happening last November when I joined this forum I would have shook my head and said, "oh no, absolutely not". I knew we were separating, and knew D would likely continue. But an engagement at this timeline? She's known the OW just over a year (maybe 18 months?). This is pure insanity.

So I don't know what comes next. She made a comment "Oh, well it's not like we're never going to see each other again". Really? I mean, I don't have plans to see her. She broke my heart and all I want to do is move along peacefully and in a healing way. I don't see us hanging out - especially if OW is in the picture. No. No thank you.

I don't know how I feel. I think sad. A bit of jealousy if I'm honest. Hurt. A little delirious and a feeling of "Is this even real?"

But I have to also remember that I'm getting through this with my own crush. And while this crush is not my next long term R, she is a delightful distraction with a killer smile and infectious laugh. Fantastic curves. And I'm also not D yet, so am I really any better than STBXW?

Speaking of D, when her lawyer comes back from vacation she'll be working on the divorce decree. There certainly has been no rush. But it sounds like we will definitely be done by the end of the year.

I changed my W4 in anticipation of my new standing of "single". Ugh, this *bleeps* up my taxes.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2862717
08/25/19 11:56 AM
08/25/19 11:56 AM
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FlySolo Offline
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Originally Posted by Yail
]The response surprised me a bit. She said she realized that 80% of the house is stuff she has accumulated through the years (true) and it was her responsibility to get rid of it. She asked that she have the opportunity to do so, and that I not give it away - that she will.

This is weird, right? Though theres no point trying to understand it. My H gets very funny when i mention getting rid of anything. At first I thought it was because he wanted everything just as he left it. Like a museum to our life together. So he could step back in whenever he wanted. Perhaps at the start that was true. Now, even if i had not moved/gotten rid of things (and itís not that much - the changes are subtle) he no longer fits. And he knows it. So now (and AS is going to rollick me for using the word) it is about control. His and hers. Their need to control their story. It is no different from our need to do the same.

Iím sorry about the engagement. The jealousy is normal. Even if you canít see yourself together anymore, even when your thinking of someone else, the jealousy is real and it hurts. That really [censored]. Yail - she left you, she moved states, she lied to you and is now marrying someone else ffs itís a wonder youíre not so screaming and punching walls. But youíre not. That is true compassion and you should be so so proud of the person you are. Yes, sheís selfish and weak, someone who would rather run and start from a blank slate than do the hard work of fixing things. But god darn it, even with all that, she has not taken away the truth of you.

The script. That effing script. We see the signs, the trajectory. But it still hurts. Itís strange how quickly we can slide from ďIím not sure this is what I wantĒ to barely speaking.


W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2862723
08/25/19 02:35 PM
08/25/19 02:35 PM
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(((Yail))). I know just how you feel. My STBXH was engaged six months after BD apparently. It would be funny if it wasnít so pathetic. He found a soft place to land that enabled him to escape his old life with barely a scratch. He is reinventing himself, immersing himself in her life and divorcing his old life as much as possible. Not too sure how many friends and family made the cut but I donít think very many. I agree with FS...your reaction is normal and also shows a great amount of compassion and class. She has truly lost a lot Yail.

I texted my STBXH the other day that I need him to take the rest of his stuff to his new place...his new life. I confess...I even got a touch cranky about it. Told him I wanted every last figurine, flag, poster, trophy, etc... gone...so it is like he never existed. I then told him I was torn between saving our wedding pictures for the kids or burning them and to let me know if he wanted anything. An hour later... ďyepĒ was his reply. So once in awhile, I slip. Itís hard being human. As I said in my post on my thread... I am not sure I will ever truly get over what he did (which is why me, him and OW will never be friends) but I will get over him.

You are such a class act Yail. I KNOW you will emerge from all of this an even classier act with the kind of qualities many women out there will appreciate. You will find love again when you are ready...and you will make it a great love. (((HUGS)))


Me 51
H 46
B/G Twins 11
SD19
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2862736
08/25/19 05:28 PM
08/25/19 05:28 PM
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Yorkie Offline
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Couldn't agree more with FS here.

Yail. I always look for your updates because I think we are in a very similar position and stage. You've moved a small stage ahead with your home move. Hopefully mine is on the horizon. I have mixed feelings. In a way it's my last tie to him. I know I have the children, but they're adults so can do their own thing.

I also know that feeling of contradiction: If I don't want the R anymore, why do I feel anything at all about OW.

For me, I think it's the speed with which H has moved on and is well and truly getting his feet under the table with another family. Looks like it might be the same for you. At times I feel rejected, worthless and insignificant. If someone can walk away after 30 years and not look back, feel no remorse or concern for their actions that must mean I'm pretty insignificant. They're feelings; I try to acknowledge them as such and then use my rational mind to realise they are not necessarily true. It's a work in progress and I am putting my faith in the fact that they will fade with time.

Yail, I truly admire your strength and the depth of your self knowledge. You really are doing so well.

I too have a crush. It cannot go anywhere and I'm self aware enough to know that it's because somebody is being supportive, is interested in me as a person and makes me laugh, I mean really laugh, that I have fallen for them a little bit. There is absolutely no inappropriate behaviour on his part; he is truly just a very good friend

I've been with my H for 30 years and I can honestly say that I have never flirted or considered what it might be like to be in a R with someone else for all that time. My friend yesterday suggested that it was a good sign and because there is no possibility of a R, it was a safe way to explore my feelings as a now single woman and recognise what sort of person I might want to be in my future.

I know my future will be fine and I also feel the same about yours Yail. It's all about us now. Let's make the most of it.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yorkie] #2862802
08/26/19 08:39 AM
08/26/19 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Yorkie
For me, I think it's the speed with which H has moved on and is well and truly getting his feet under the table with another family. Looks like it might be the same for you. At times I feel rejected, worthless and insignificant. If someone can walk away after 30 years and not look back, feel no remorse or concern for their actions that must mean I'm pretty insignificant. They're feelings; I try to acknowledge them as such and then use my rational mind to realise they are not necessarily true. It's a work in progress and I am putting my faith in the fact that they will fade with time.


This is one of the hardest bits of the journey. You feel that years in a R would make them think twice about what they have to lose, saying goodbye to, but they'd rather lose it all and think, "I'll be fine. I'm strong. I have my family and friends." etc. to avoid appearing weak in front of their peers perhaps.

I guess the solution is not to get too hung on on that. Distract yourself with GAL and positive actions for yourself.

You're doing this really well. Keep going.


Me - 36, W - 32
No kids
T - 8 yr, M - 3 yr
Discovery - 14 May 2019
S - 25 May 2019 & D bomb - 29 July 2019
D & House sale final - Feb 2020
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2862856
08/26/19 04:40 PM
08/26/19 04:40 PM
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Yail Offline OP
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Thanks all, I appreciate the notes and encouragement. I really, really do.

I'm a bit on edge today because I'm effectively homeless for a few weeks, and that just messes with your routine and sense of normal. I'm still a bit behind on sleep. I want some private space. It was an insane weekend of packing and work. I'm not eating the veggies I should be and the sugar content is at astronomical levels (I had a Klondike bar for breakfast sooo......).

But, I also am starting to feel a bit calmer in that I am now officially OUT of the house. I loved that house, but it was time to go. And I'm no longer surrounded by her things. This will be very good.

She's effectively out of my life again, and we have no need to communicate except for the D. I can now manage our communications in whatever way I choose, and I don't really have to see her if I don't want to. She said we would have to for the D, but I don't know that I do. I see no reason to not just have it go through our lawyers.

It's not that I don't want to see her or do want to see her - it's that I have my power back. I'm in a place where I can decide what's best for me. She can't surprise me. I'm not telling her where I will be living. I want my privacy.

The only pending piece is what happens with the property equity. I will be curious how that plays out in the decree. After that piece is done I can truly do whatever I want - play nice, play mean, not play at all. That choice and that freedom is what I'm waiting on. I'll be "not playing at all", if you're curious.

I do feel calmer when she's gone. Let her take her journey. Maybe in a few years I'll be able to forgive and we can be friends. Maybe not. But I don't have to decide today. All I need to do today is live for me.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2863744
09/01/19 10:37 PM
09/01/19 10:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 641
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Yail Offline OP
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You know how sometimes you feel like you've lived this part of your life, and you almost can see what's around the corner in a hazy image?

I have none of that right now. I literally know nothing of what comes next, and it's very interesting. Things feel new.

So I moved out of the house last weekend. To be honest, I've spent very little time thinking of W except for waiting for her to file paperwork. Once that's settled I'll really relax into knowing that she can't pull the rug from me ever again. She has no affect over me in my day to day life. I'm in control.

I spent Sunday - Thursday at my brother's house with him and soon to be SIL. They're the best. Seriously. My rockstars. But I didn't want to stay with them so close to the wedding. They deserve space.

Plus, I'm a major introvert. I'm having SO MUCH fun being social, but at the end of the day I desperately need my own space to feel rested and focused. Staying in the guest bedroom was lovely, but tough for me.

My apartment won't be ready until September 16 after all, so I have a 3 week gap in housing. This stressed me out. And then? MY COLLEAGUES pulled through for me in a major way. Bless them.

The college owns a couple of apartments, and one isn't rented. I'm being allowed a super-short (2.5 week) rental. It's right next to campus (so much so that my staff wifi account pulls from the building next door). It's a SWEET apartment. 2 bedroom, hardwood floors, beautiful building. Honestly, it's way nicer than the apartment I'm moving to in a couple weeks. It should be - it's way more expensive.

There's even talk that they may let this slide under the radar and either a) not charge me rent or b) charge me super low rent. Talk about amazing favors!

I feel like I'm in an airbnb vacation except for the fact I still have to go to work every day. It's the fun of being in a temporary space and living life in a different way. I'm right downtown with all the noise and vibe that comes with it. It's a nice temporary stay that I'm really enjoying - but also I'm solidifying the fact that long-term I think I'd like to buy a house in the country. Last night I just heard students laughing and yelling greetings to one another and I smiled to myself. This morning I narrowly avoided walking in vomit. Soooo yeah, it's definitely a college vibe.

*******
When W first left I was irrationally angry about a couple of things that had nothing to do with the fact that she bailed on the R. Things that were about our lifestyle, but not her. Those two things were

A) I was really sad I wouldn't have a summer vacation. We always took a week or so vacation together that was a treat. I felt like that part of my lifestyle was gone. And

B) I was REALLY angry that here I am in my 30s without a sex life. Supposedly peak-time, and I'm not having any fun.

So here I am on the other side of our break-up. And I realized I took control of both of those things on my own. I took an amazing trip to Italy, and it helped me realize what kind of life I want to live. It gave me joy and it gave me focus.

Soon after the break-up I spent way too much money on lingerie for myself. I haven't had a chance to use it for anyone else, but I sure do feel good in it. An actual physical relationship with someone else will come in time, but the feeling I was missing (of being wanted/sexy/a woman) was fulfilled by just enjoying the feeling of control I had when wearing something I felt good in.

My next R is going to have her hands full. I'm full speed ahead these days.

*******

Speaking of "next R", I've had the chance to spend more time with my work-crush. She's killing me. Absolutely killing me. Because I know she's not interested, and I 100% respect that. I would never pursue someone who isn't similarly interested because that's just not cool.

But then she'll do like 1 TINY little thing that's just .... weird... if she really only saw me as a friend. Like there's this weird intimacy that normal friends don't start off with. And then I'm back to wondering if she maybe has a secret attraction. So then I'm on the hook again.

I think I may get to hang out with her both professionally and socially this week. Perhaps that will tell me more.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2865326
09/14/19 08:39 PM
09/14/19 08:39 PM
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Yail Offline OP
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Things can be going along so beautifully, and then the deep sadness rears her head.

With all this upheaval over the past few weeks I've been feeling pretty good. No pits in my stomach, no real thinking about STBXW. I was starting to (almost?) look forward to receiving D paperwork so I can just put this behind me and move on without the fear that she'll show up and throw me off my groove. I realized I live in a lot of anxiety that I'll see an email come through from her. Checking my email is a regular part of my day, and there's a tiny bit of anxiety every time, and I don't want to live like that. I know that communications will stop after the D. I never initiate them.

What I wrote before is exactly how I feel: I'm afraid she's going to pull the rug out from under me again. I feel that way with every communication.

So with that feeling I've been almost anxiously awaiting D paperwork so that we can be done with this power she has over me.

She did write last week saying her lawyer needs my address as part of the paperwork that is finally being worked on. I know this is true, but I really didn't want to give it to her. I don't have a PO Box, so my address is where I'll be living. I just wanted to be under the radar so she doesn't know where I am.

I don't have any fear of her in a physical sense - but a tiny part of my has a fear she or her OW would show up in some craziness at my door. I don't know. I have no reason to think that. But I just didn't like it. I ended up providing the address anyway, because I couldn't come up with a valid reason not to that wasn't based on irrational fear.

But today she crept into my thoughts. Who she was before. And I can't see her coming back, and I'm so sad over this. I can't see her ever realizing that she was an equal part to our problems and 100% the reason for the D. That starting with just an apology would open a door to us.

I don't see her ever reaching that self-awareness, and that makes me both sad and feel like a total @$$hole. Who says that about the person they love(d)?

It's like I've split her into two people officially in my mind. The woman she was before and that I'm starting to miss again. I'm missing her deep down where it hurts. And then the woman she was for the last 9 months of our R with the A and gaslighting and horrid, horrid behavior towards me. The woman who I believe is now in a full R with the OW and I believe also engaged. Who the F is that woman??

Despite everything, I think long-term I could forgive. I can't believe I'm even in a space where I'm contemplating it in my mind, but if I saw the woman I fell in love with in front of me I think I could maybe forgive the rest. Is this maybe part of the bargaining stage of grief? I'm thinking it might be. Grief is such a long, slow process.

It just hurts so bad that I don't think I'll ever hear from her again. Not the true W that I used to know.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2865329
09/14/19 08:58 PM
09/14/19 08:58 PM
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Thornton Offline
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Hey Yail,

I think we can all relate to how you feel. I too suffer from that horrible anxiety, itís brutal.

Rest assured, you will not feel this way forever. It just feels like it. Eventually your feelings for W will change and she will no longer hold that power over you. I think back to my first wife and when we split up, I would have been willing to bet that Iíd ever find love again. I truly believed my ex was the only person who could understand me. These days I donít even think of my ex. She doesnít even cross my mind. Thereís absolutely nothing she can do to hurt me.

Time is a great healer. Keep working on you and GAL.

Thorn


Me 43
He 43
D: 18
D: 12
T: 8 years

Bomb 5/10/2014
Back 7/7/2014

Bomb 2 1/28/2016
Back: 5/2016

Bomb 3 4/3/2017
She moved away with SD: 5/27/2017
Back: 8/1/2018

Bomb 4 9/11/2019
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2865331
09/14/19 09:26 PM
09/14/19 09:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
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Yail Offline OP
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Thanks Thorn. I know I'll cycle back up, I just keep forgetting that I'll continue to cycle down too sometimes. It's a surprise every time, and feels like a set-back.

The Good:
Most days lately I've felt amazing: powerful, confident, charming and intelligent. I've felt like the person I want to be and that I'm finally starting to uncover. I've been wondering, "who am I? Who is this social person that Yail is becoming?". I've always been shy, but these days I'm really tackling the social sphere. Perhaps it's my 180.

I have a few new friends. I remember last Fall when that's all I wanted - friends beyond my wonderful but small circle. And there are some lovely women that I'm getting to know that just popped into my life. It's new and it's gratifying.

One in particular is pretty cool. She's a lesbian as well, and incredibly outgoing and vocal. She just kind of picked me out of the crowd, declared "I want to be friends with Yail" (kind of literally did that, actually) and started inviting me out to do things. She has invited me to three different social things, I've said yes to all. Two of the events were with new-to-me social groups, and she then introduced me to new people at those so I can continue to expand the people I know. I think it's on me to invite her out next time so she knows I value her as well. We seem to have a similar sense of humor which is fun, though to be honest I don't know much about her personally yet. I could see us really clicking, and I'm hopeful she becomes part of my new group of friends I want to build.

This is what I need to focus on. Building my new life. But every now and then I suppose I have to pause, mourn, and keep moving.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2865435
09/16/19 03:51 AM
09/16/19 03:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
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DejaVu6 Offline
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(((Yail))) I can totally relate. Whenever I start to feel down about the demise of my marriage, I just think of the people I have added to my life and other blessings that would not have occurred if this had not happened to me. Feeling down now and again is not a setback. Getting over this kind of loss is not a linear process. You are doing great!! (((HUGS))))


Me 51
H 46
B/G Twins 11
SD19
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2868536
10/17/19 02:12 AM
10/17/19 02:12 AM
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Yail Offline OP
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"We can decide to be happy. Make much out of little. Embrace the warmth of our ordinary days. Life unfolds as a mystery, an enterprise whose outcome cannot be foretold. We do not get what we expect. We stumble upon cracks, are faced with imperfection. Bonds are tested and tightened. And our landscapes shift in sunshine and in shade. There is light. There is Ė look for it Ė look for it shining over your shoulder on the pass. It was light where you went once. It is light where you are now. It will be light where you will go again."

- Call the Midwife (Season 8, Episode 3)

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2868543
10/17/19 03:46 AM
10/17/19 03:46 AM
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DejaVu6 Offline
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LOVE IT!!! What a great quote! Thank you for sharing. (((Yail)))


Me 51
H 46
B/G Twins 11
SD19
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2873605
11/27/19 06:55 PM
11/27/19 06:55 PM
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Yail Offline OP
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I've been ruminating quite a bit on the word "create". What is creation, how do we live creative lives, what does it mean to create a new life. It's a pretty singular focus for me these days.

Two quotes circle around my mind.
"We have to create. It is the only thing louder than destruction" - Andrea Gibson, spoken word poet
"The opposite of war isn't peace. It's creation." - RENT

I have no desire to destroy my life and start again. I have a desire to create and build my life. Creation has no room for guilt, or anger. The pain that exists is not dismissed - it is useful to use as a guide. It feels like the space I need to be in.

Three days ago I started "The Artist's Way". It's a book that was written in the 90s for "discovering and recovering your creative self". It's a self-help book of sorts, but the focus on identifying and nurturing the creative soul inside you. There are exercises to do and daily writings. It's a 12 week program.

I have always resisted identifying as an artist, despite going to school for music. I refused to be called a "musician". I have held Art at bay and looked at it warily. But I'm in a space where I'm welcoming the change and the building. Three days into the book and I can feel my resistance falling. I want to live fully and out loud. I need to be in touch with my inner artist to do so.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2876182
12/14/19 10:41 PM
12/14/19 10:41 PM
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Yail Offline OP
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2020 is almost here, and I can't believe I thrived this year.

I don't post much anymore for a few reasons. DV's recent troubles (hi hun, if you're reading) with her XH and OW reading her posts kind of highlighted a secret fear of mine. I don't think W reads here, but I can't be sure. And with our D being in process I just didn't want her knowing my life. It hurt too much.

I suppose I should call her XW. It's not official yet, but has been filed and the judge just needs to sign off. No idea when that will be, but it's on its way in upcoming weeks I suspect.

And I still try not to think about her too much. I'm still baffled that she left instead of trying to work on it with me. I need to continue to create distance in my heart so I call her my "former" or "XW" whenever referring to her in conversation. Her name brings images of her face and I still have difficulty when I think about her. I will likely always love her.

But I've also made major strides in letting her go. I can see what my life might be like now, and there are so many amazing positives. I have come into myself this past year in way that I never foresaw. I didn't know there were these parts of me missing.

I have become close to my coworkers and have a fantastic team at work. I have made a good friend who I adore and while she's married, she also is a flirt and she's fun to hang out with. She has made it her mission to find me a FWB relationship since I often lament my lack of a sex life. So far no luck - the people she is identifying for me are either straight or unavailable. I tease her about her terrible taste, but think it's great to have a friend in my court who just wants me to be happy. All my friends do.

I have a February appointment for my tattoo. It will be a black and white floral piece - maybe about 6''x4'' on my upper thigh. I can't wait. This is a result of my "year of Yes" list.

I should go back and read that list which I think I posted here. I didn't accomplish everything, but used it as a guide to stop staying stuck, and to seek out the fun I see around every corner. Don't live the life I think I'm supposed to have - live the one I want.

So now I need to identify what 2020 will be for Yail. Another Year of Yes, perhaps, but I think I should refine it a bit. More about taking risks perhaps. I'll think about this, and maybe post about what the 2020 focus will be.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2876322
12/16/19 01:09 PM
12/16/19 01:09 PM
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FlySolo Offline
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Hey Yail,

Originally Posted by Yail
I have come into myself this past year in way that I never foresaw. I didn't know there were these parts of me missing


I don't think we ever know who we are until we are forced to examine it. We all 'fall' into things. Relationships, jobs, homes and one day we realise that we have not really made a conscious choice in years, and who we were when we started, is so far from who we are now. It's like a house, you fill it with things you think you need and it gets fuller and fuller, and you look around one day and say 'this is me'. Then there's some sort of catastrophe, an earthquake, which shakes the house to its very foundation, and you wake up shattered and alone, surrounded by memories you no longer trust (they do a good job of destroying those in their eagerness to escape), and all your broken hopes and dreams.

But once you start to heal, you can start sorting, the good from the bad, the truth (your truth) from the lies that you told yourself. I cannot move on. I am stuck in no-mans land. He does not push for a D. He does not want to have the R conversation. But you can. She has given you the gift of a fresh start.

I am with you no the lamenting the lack of a sex life. But I think it's all about opportunity and inclination. You have to make the opportunities (and I think you are), but you can't fake inclination. You aren't ready. One day you will be. Just keep yourself out there. Enjoy yourself whilst you're out. No expectations right. Mrs Yail will come along. And until she does, you are meeting new people, hearing their stories, and making new memories of your own.

Congrats on scheduling the tattoo. I wish we could post photos.


W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2876380
12/16/19 05:39 PM
12/16/19 05:39 PM
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Yail Offline OP
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Hey FS.

I'm sorry you feel stuck in no-mans land. Are you really? Perhaps it is perception. Your H is in no-mans land, but you as an individual do have choices. You can leave and you can initiate D. You are choosing not to and that is a valid choice. It may be the hardest choice. You are a strong woman FS.

In a lot of ways my sitch is "easier" than others here. My W cut and run rather quickly, with NC. We don't have children, and the specifics of our D were pretty cut and dry. If I were to speculate, I believe she feels this is the kindest. She may be correct.

The great irony, of course, is I have become the person she wanted all along. A person engaged with life, not content to sit at home and play house. Curious what's around the corner, and up for an adventure and making my own decisions. I'm not sure why I couldn't be that person before, but I am discovering it now. If I had any regrets, it is that I did not know how to find this person sooner. My other regret being that I wasn't willing to fight out of fear of the results. I'm finding these to be two huge lessons.

I'm not looking back quite as much these days. The lessons I'm continuing to learn are less about the relationship - there were a lot of lessons in that - but in what it means to be an authentic Yail.

*****

"Opportunity & Inclination" is an interesting way to view my future sex life. You've hit on something here because you're correct there are those two pieces to the puzzle. You're correct that I am building the opportunities. I'm meeting new folks, making a social life, and very consciously choosing to spend more time with lesbian friends. I've found my lack of lesbian friends to be a great hole in my life and I feel so much more visible & heard when I have a chance to connect with them. It's subtle and it's hard to explain, but I think it is validating to see yourself reflected in folks around you. I don't feel lonely anymore.

I'm not sure if I agree with the inclination piece. I do feel I'm ready - or close to it - for the physical piece only. I have no desire for a relationship now. Or at least not a serious one. A bit of flirting sounds very fun, and a casual thing is on my mind. But I'm a long time from seeking a serious R, it doesn't interest me at all. I don't care about dinner dates or needing to plan a life together. I have too much to build and can't afford to become complacent or distracted.

That's an interesting place for me to be in, since I've always been someone who does things "by the book". I've always been in a monogamous R before any intimacy happens. Now I don't care. I'm a big girl, I know how to be safe with my body and my heart. I like that I'm questioning my own assumptions, even if I'm not sure where it will lead me.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2876454
12/17/19 10:03 AM
12/17/19 10:03 AM
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FlySolo Offline
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Opportunity and Inclination is actually a repurposed line from Pride and Prejudice. There are a lot more men in my industry and it's known for its drinking/sexist culture. Whenever I went out (which was rare) for drinks/dinner with work my H would always make some snide comment about how men only want one thing and I should be careful with the way I talked/dress/acted. I would respond with "opportunity and inclination" and as I had no inclination, all the opportunity in the world didn't make an iota of difference. I took this as controlling and a lack of trust. In retrospect, it was all these things, but it was also love. He loved me and I belittled him.

Anyway, the thing with inclination is it isn't a conscious thing. You don't go out saying "I am now inclined to ...". You just are or you aren't. Like you, I tend to say yes to all social invites. I'm not going to lie, sometimes I don't want to say yes, would rather sit at home and watch Netflix, but I say yes anyway with the intention of having a good time. If I happen to meet someone (and sometimes I do) I will go with it. But I haven't met anyone who makes my heart skip a beat. I always find something not quite right. I know if it was right, and I was ready, then I would find these things charming and not annoying. That is all I am saying. That when it's right you will know. Be open to the opportunities but do not force the inclination because of culturally accepted notion of completeness or your own feelings of loneliness. You are enough. With or without someone, you are enough Yail.

Go out, have fun. Be open to new ideas and new experiences. The road will take you where it takes you.

Oh, and Do no harm. Take no sh!t.


W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2876524
12/17/19 04:05 PM
12/17/19 04:05 PM
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Yail Offline OP
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Next embroidery/cross stich project:

"Do no harm.
Take no [censored]"

and hang it in my apartment. Maybe in the bathroom next to my mirror as a daily reminder while getting ready?

I think this needs to happen over my winter break :-D


I so wish I could send one to you FS!!!! That is my imaginary holiday gift to you. We can pretend we have a matching set.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2876621
12/18/19 12:35 PM
12/18/19 12:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 858
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AlisonUK Online
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I would love one of those samplers too. What a great motto!

I've not been here in a while but it's great to catch up with you Yail, and FS - and hear about what you've both been up to.

All the best for Christmas and 2020!

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2876709
12/19/19 01:22 AM
12/19/19 01:22 AM
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Yail Offline OP
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I have this overwhelming urge to write, which I believe has something to do with it being the end of the year. It's a reflective time.

I've shared with my work team that this will be my "Year of Risks", so I guess I'm committed to it now.

Last year's Year of Yes was good for me. Looking back at my list it has certainly guided me, though I haven't completed most in a literal sense.

I do have the tattoo appointment, so that's a "check" on the list. I bought cigarettes, smelled them, and nearly was sick. That was a half-hearted attempt at something I don't need.

"Farm. Garden." I guess I succeeded when I chose to run away to Italy to farm my butt off. "Get strangers to flirt with me". Yeah..going not bad! I'm feeling super confident, and have folks flirting with me. They're not available for dating but open to friendly flirting and it feels pretty great to have the attention.

A few of my favorites. I think I do better with guiding principles than specific goals.

****************

So, a Year of Risks. This one might be tougher to identify ideas for. But a few have turned about in my mind.

*Write 2 minutes of stand-up/improv. MAYBE try to perform at open mic. I've been super inspired by some local comedians in my area and I know I'm pretty funny when I put my mind to it.

*Clothing Risk: Put my body out there. I dress nicely but conservatively. If I'm going out to a club, why not show it a touch? I can still be classy and sexy.

*Flirting with new folks. This is hard for me. I'll have to put myself out there.

*Look ahead towards new housing. Will I continue to rent, or share housing, or buy, or find a farm? Making this decision is terrifying to me, and feels like a risk.

*Continue learning to farm.



I need more ideas. But for now, I'm trying to be proud of what I accomplished last year. It was a lot, and it still sometimes doesn't feel like enough. I just have a never ending thirst for "more".

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877031
12/21/19 02:29 AM
12/21/19 02:29 AM
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Posts: 178
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KristinG Offline
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Yail,

I finally finished reading your sitch from start to finish. I don't remember what drew me to open your thread, but I did, and wow (you're amazing). I didn't think there were any other lesbians on this forum and it felt so good to read your journey and feel that connection to someone else that has experienced the social dynamic that is being a queer woman. I have been so inspired and impressed by your strength of character and grace in handling everything that your ww has thrown at you. Kudos on setting goals and climbing your way out of the trenches. I just wanted to stop by and drop a line and let you know that you have so many people cheering for you. Also, thank you for journaling your path as it has impacted me and given me hope as I can see a lot of my faults (and dreams) in your growth. I manage two very large, successful veterinary clinics and let me just say - goats are awesome! When my high school sweetheart left me after 8 years together (this was years ago, in my early twenties), I moved to Spain for 6 months because I didn't want to heal on the same continent as her HAHA! I totally understand the desire to travel and push yourself far outside of your comfort zone. I do hope you continue to write and share.

Kristin


LBW 32 - me
WW 31
T 7 M 4
No Kids
4 dogs

Separated 1y
Navigating the mine field and GAL with or without
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: KristinG] #2877106
12/22/19 03:31 AM
12/22/19 03:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 641
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Yail Offline OP
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KG (can I call you KG? I tend to abbreviate people's names!) thank you for your note! Wow, it really makes me so happy that you stopped by and identified yourself here as a queer woman. Is that your preferred identity? I identify as lesbian and/or queer (and use "she/her" pronouns).

There aren't many of us, honestly. I've nearly left for that very reason. But you need to talk through this process and that need overrode my anger at a few posters. I would definitely recommend reading some of Wonka's old threads. She was a long time poster and her earliest stuff was purged, but you can find her Validation thread at the top of the forum, and find her personal threads from there. She isn't here anymore but her documented history kept me sane. Very rational, very positive, very gay :-D

I haven't read your threads, but I will try to soon. I was spending less time here for a while - my life really is becoming fuller and I'm starting to not think about this stuff quite so much. My advice is that when that happens - let it. Take the break. If you're living your life and find yourself not thinking about WW don't feel guilty and pull yourself back due to some weird feeling of obligation, or that you "should" be sad. Take the release as it comes (trust me, the sadness will return when it feels like it). The end of the calendar year and the holidays has me reflective, along with the fact my D is nearly final. So I'm feeling the need to be back for a while.

Stay focused on your goals, whatever they are. Make sure one of them is healing properly. Take the time to do that and don't just run out and GAL with all your energy.

Not that you asked for my advice, but there it is. I'll come visit you on your thread in the next few days or so. Until then, be well.

***********
Random musings because Yail is feeling reflective (ie Journaling):

**********
Time and space gives clarity. I mostly feel forgiving towards XW. Mostly. I see how she wanted something other than what we were, and needed to be harsh to pull herself away and leave. I can not fault her for wanting a different life if that's what was truly calling her. That part I see. The affair however infuriates and sickens me. Our relationship was very clearly defined as a monogamous one, and she had previously been disgusted by the idea of ever cheating. Eff you, XW. Seriously. I thought I was going insane the summer of 2018 when she was having her EA, that I was somehow the crazy one. Sometimes I wonder if I should forgive her, and my gut just recoils and says, "no. You can't forget, so how can you forgive?". But then I read the quote "Forgiveness is the release of all hope for a better past" and that helps me. It reframes forgiveness to something I understand. It's truly not condoning her behavior, or even understanding it.

Sometimes I talk to myself in my head. "I should have been 'done' when she told me it was inappropriate that I - her WIFE - kiss her good morning." "I should have been 'done' when I found someone else's underwear in our sheets". "I should have been 'done' when she was unapologetic as I confronted her about her affair" "I should have been 'done' when...."

But I wasn't done. Not for a long, long time after that. Am I now? I'm not sure. Perhaps "done" isn't the barometer I should be measuring by. I just know that even when I was being disrespected I still actively loved her. For a long time.

I don't know how I feel about her now, and that's probably because I don't know her. I know I miss her sometimes. That's all I really know.

************
My greatest stress these days is money. My apartment is too much for my budget, and I'm trying to figure out how I can buy a house (mortgage would be cheaper, but I don't have a full down payment). I can't get what I really want, which is a small property with land for goats. This is a pretty big disappointment, but I just need to work on a plan on how I get to that point. Being a single wage earner is tough. I'm a bit annoyed that XW is making over $100K in her new job and is (I suspect) in a two income household. She always wasted money on [censored] too. Disposable [censored]. Crappy furniture, as an example. I much prefer fewer items that are high quality that I'll have for a lifetime.

I'm proud of myself in my lifestyle. It's authentic to me, and I feel much happier in it. It's not a serious struggle - I have enough food to eat, I can have a restrained social life - but it's a very conscious lifestyle. I have every dollar budgeted and I'm dipping into savings a bit unfortunately. I'm working on how to either get a second job or revamp the budget. It's already very, very lean aside from the funds I'm trying to dump into retirement. I was a late saver due to my job choices, so I'm determined to play catch up.

I'm hopeful 2020 will bring me a slight boost in my financial realm.

**********

Today was our Christmas celebration with my extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins, grandma). I truly love my family. I'm the oldest of the cousins, and the youngest is probably about 26 or so. Most are engaged, long-term partnered, or married. I'm currently the only single one.

I love my family for accepting my XW into the family with open arms, and quietly releasing her just as smoothly. they don't ask about her, as it's still fresh. But they also don't give me those pitying looks. They just ask how I'm doing, take me at my word, and celebrate the season with me.

It's hard to sit there with my happy cousins. I'm so desperately, honestly proud of them and happy for them as they buy houses, get engaged, and sit with their honeys. I feel comfortable enough in my skin around my family to not feel awkward at being alone. But it was still hard to not have W there with me, relaxing with a bit too much wine and sweets, passing gifts to grandma. I was trying to determine if I missed her as a person, or her as an idea. Do I miss being partnered? In that moment, yes. Not in my every day life. But I can't identify how much of my ache is missing her as the woman she was vs the idea of being "settled". It's a strange part of the journey.


**********
I joke with friends about dating, and how I have to get out there. But it's a joke - I don't want to. But it has me realizing that my heart is both hardened and softened in the past year. I'm more forgiving, more extroverted, more generous and engaged with life around me. The change is remarkable. That part of me has softened. But the idea of letting a single person in to my life in a romantic/partnered sense has me at a full "No." response. I just don't want it. I want to be by myself. I feel hardened against it. It's not that I simply don't feel ready - I feel cold about the idea. I'm hoping it's part of the healing process.

Which isn't to say I don't want the flirting or the physical. I'm feeling and acting very flirty with a couple women (both straight and gay) and would love to meet someone I could share a respectful casual physical relationship with. I honestly think I'm in a place where I could do the FWB thing. I could respectfully be their friend and not let them in to my heart too deep. That's a weird feeling for me too.

*********

All this to say, I feel like I'm in another new phase. I'm in a bit of a letting go phase. We'll see what's next, but I'm enjoying the quiet feeling.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877114
12/22/19 09:39 AM
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Yail - what a wonderful and inspiring post. I am glad you did not leave. This community needs different perspectives. There is the odd bit of misogyny advocated here and there. But I do think that sometimes people (men) need to hear that in order to help them heal. Do you remember Burned? He needed to hear it. We talk about female empowerment, perhaps it is the same. I don't much care for the 'no more mister nice guy / show her who's boss' quotes and tbt it makes the hairs on my neck stand up, but I do understand how it can motivate people to get out of their funk and take back control of their lives.

Anyway, again, I'm glad you're here. Your support has been invaluable to me.

Originally Posted by Yail
I see how she wanted something other than what we were, and needed to be harsh to pull herself away and leave.


Understanding this is the road to forgiveness. Forgiveness isn't about the other person. You rarely see STBXW so how could she doesn't know whether you forgive her or not. Forgiveness is about you. Because once you forgive, the voices in your head will stop focusing on the past and start to look towards a more fulfilling future. You stop focusing on what you don't have or what you lost.

You may not know it, but you are there Yail. Apart from the occasional voice in your head, you have let her go and you are looking towards a great future.

Have you thought about doing some casual work - maybe working in a bar or cafe at night? This is so different from what (I imagine) you do that it may awaken a different part of your brain. Once that doesn't analyse so much. One that is more live in the moment. Two birds with one stone - more money and meet/flirt with new people.

Last edited by FlySolo; 12/22/19 09:42 AM.

W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877115
12/22/19 09:53 AM
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Actually, I just remembered the slightly tipsy drank too much Yail post from long ago.

I'm glad you're here to balance those views out and I am proud to be your virtual friend.


W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877148
12/22/19 06:43 PM
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Yail,

I am glad you are here. Thank you for posting on my thread. I have trouble keeping track of posters, but when they message me on my thread, I try and find their's and read it. I hope you will stay and update occasionally. I just know there are so many posters that read and don't post and so the more diverse sitches we have on the boards, the more safe they might feel to come around eventually, and esp queer folks. It seems that the dominate culture here is Christian, straight and perhaps white, but I don't know that for a fact. I am guessing based on 5-6 years of reading. I want everyone to know they are welcome here and there are many of us that will try not to give the same advice.

How is it going with the "Artist's Way?" A dear friend gave me that book after my own BD. It had helped her through a similar sitch. I struggled to read it tho. I was so anxious and depressed then that I couldn't focus on that level of self reflection and personal work. Perhaps I should give it a go now? There are so many mediums to healing and self discovery. Art is therapy in and of itself.

You seem to be in a good place. It is perfectly healthy to enjoy casual fun and flirting without the intentions of a relationship. It is also a nice reminder that you still got it! ;-)
'
Blu


ďForgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.Ē Ė Nelson Mandela
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877174
12/23/19 03:18 AM
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FS - oh yes, I remember Burned. I actually think of him time to time and wish he stayed. As much as he dug his heels in he was never one that got on my nerves because I got the sense he was trying. He was posting, asking questions, and was engaged. That was my feeling about him anyway. He struggled so much with his anger at the sitch, and I hope he is well.

I think it is exactly the "NMMNG" book and "A woman wants a confidant man" mantra that gets to me. Because my reality is that those things aren't gendered. I want a confidant woman who owns herself and can lead me. I hope I am also that for a future partner, because it's a two way street. I did see a couple of the " mr nice guy" traits in myself but I think we all do. I guess I just get annoyed when folks take those phrases a tad too literally. I simply stay off those posters' threads.

Ah yes. My drunken diatribe grin. I remember it well. I wrote it, deleted it (giving it a second thought) and then wrote it again in a much kinder fashion before posting. I was MAD that day. I remember writing it very clearly. I believe it was about a year ago.

Looking back, it wasn't too terrible. But I remember the rage i felt. Just for fun, here it is: That time Yail posted drunk

**********
Blu

I'm mildly embarrassed to say that I've let the Artists Way fall to the wayside. I blame the holidays. I do hope to start again, as I think it's a great fit for me. My goal is to pick it back up after Christmas.

I love how none of us know what others look like, but you saying "you still go it" made me so happy laugh I feel hot these days! So thank you for noticing! (hehe)

In the real world I put back on the weight I lost last year due to anxiety, but hey, some folks love my curves. I used to have a blonde section under my dark curls but I just dyed it bright pink because I'm feeling feisty. I might due purple for New Years. So yeah, this mama's still got some swagger and I'm definitely workin' it. wink

Thanks for saying hi.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877205
12/23/19 08:57 AM
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Yail - just dropping in to say that I'm glad you're here too. I wondered, sometimes, how it must be for you as a lesbian posting here when the posts are overwhelmingly about heterosexual (and often Christian) marriages, and what might be helpful to you, and what not. I am not Christian myself, consider myself a feminist and find a lot of the 'Mars and Venus' outlook on this forum very off putting and unhelpful. I notice how the threads can get gender segregated, and I notice that apart from a couple of very welcome exceptions, when I post on a man's thread I tend to be ignored. I guess I take what is useful from this forum, and leave out the parts that aren't. I've found reading about boundaries, especially from the women posters, and understanding control and abuse, extremely useful. It's changed my life, in fact. And from you: your commitment to your art, your personal growth, your creation of an authentic and beautiful life. How your posts are more about you and who and how you want to be rather than your W. I love that about your threads. Thank you for posting them and for being here and such a good example to me. Merry Christmas!

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877234
12/23/19 02:32 PM
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Alison, it's interesting what you said about posting on a male poster's thread and being ignored. I felt that! But I honestly thought it was because I was a lesbian stepping in to the situation, and folks thought my input wouldn't apply to them. I didn't even notice that it was gendered with other posters experiencing the same thing. Thank you for sharing, it gives me a bit of a different outlook. I'm sorry you've felt that too.

TBH, I feel the greatest difference between myself and other posters in that I don't have children. That's a huge difference in experience, and it makes our sitches vastly different. That I can understand, because it means nearly everyone else is required to interact with their WAS on a weekly/daily basis. It's a completely different ballgame, and one I can only support but not fully understand.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877284
12/23/19 06:39 PM
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OMG Yail - I meant to tell you that I have had several close calls of the "oops too much bourbon and now I want to vent" variety. Your drunken diatribe made me smile a little. I think we've all been there. As for the NMMNG mentality, I think many of us here can relate. However, I do see a push for the alpha male in many posters here. I take it with a grain of salt and think that many of us could take away a need to be a bit more assertive about our dreams/desires in future relationships.


LBW 32 - me
WW 31
T 7 M 4
No Kids
4 dogs

Separated 1y
Navigating the mine field and GAL with or without
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: KristinG] #2877324
12/23/19 10:22 PM
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Girl, are you another bourbon lover? excellent. We should be friends.

I did smile when you said you were a chapstick on your thread. I get it. I was a bit more chapstick in my past but have since ramped up the femme side. I feel we're kinda similar, if I had to guess.

My advice is to spend some time revamping your look just for fun. Turn the tunes way up in your bathroom, get some whiskey, and have a solo dance party. Try to tweak your aesthetic and you'll start to feel like a new woman. And then the attitude shift follows and you stop taking (censor) from everyone. It's great.

And go buy some killer boots! Every woman feels powerful in new boots.

Music suggestion: I'm not very well versed in the rap scene (I'm a riot grrrl at heart), but this past year I have not stopped listening to Snow tha Product. That woman has GOT something. And she's dating/engaged to a woman now too and they have the most adorable YouTube channel. I'm a bit in love with them both.

Start with "Waste of Time". Then move into her party music.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877408
12/24/19 02:34 PM
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you and your love of boots !!!

And even when you say that you can't totally relate to those of us with children, you've still done a great job of supporting me through my trials and tribulations.

The push for the alpha male is just a way of getting people out of the fatal position and back into the real world. Our self esteem (male and female) takes a hell of a beating when our spouses walk out on us that what we all need is to gain some of it back. And one road to that is knowing your worth and not letting people walk all over you. I've read the NMMNG book and I didn't read it as a book advocating not being nice. For me it was more about some people using 'niceness' as a means to manipulate other people into needing them and how that way of behaving is self damaging. So NMMNG is about stopping those behaviours and not necessarily about stopping being nice. Being nice to others is never a bad thing. It's just the title of the book and the way it sometimes gets represented here can be misleading.

Yail - have you watched Fleabag? I binge watched it over two days and thought it was excellent. I think you'd really like it.


W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877487
12/24/19 10:54 PM
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Hello ladies!

These posts just put a smile on my face ... and reminded me that I need some whiskey this holiday season. And some nice boots :-) I can be a bit of an agnostic, hippie, holy jean wearing, snowflake (haha jk). Not every day, but maybe some days. So I don't tend to think I fit into the boards' overall biblical referencing philosophies ...

I am of two minds about the No More Mr Nice Guy advice. I think the term MNG has been a bit overused and therefore it's meaning has become diluted. It can also be used in conjunction with telling male posters to "get your b@lls back" etc, and therefore suggests some kind of hyper-masculine connotation. That could lead one to infer that the poster has been emasculated by his W and needs to reassert his power in the M in order to win her back. I don't think most posters mean to suggest that, and if they do, they probably have not read the book and are misusing the term.

This book was life changing for my H. He felt as if the book was written for him and it helped him understand his personal issues -- in our M and in his relationships with everyone, esp women. My understanding is that a MNG is a man that uses his "niceness" as a way of covering up deep-seeded feelings of fear, inadequacy and an inability to express their needs/wants. This leads to covert contracts, disappointment in not getting their needs met and then ultimately resentment towards that other person. My H has always been a big people pleaser and would often stuff his own feelings and opinions. So in our M, he wasn't getting his needs met, but he actually wasn't communicating them. This led to a build-up of resentment over the years and I was mostly oblivious to it. Since he has been back in the M, he has had to learn to express his needs, wants, and desires. He has also had to learn to stand up for himself, disagree and say "no" to people when they expect too much of him. It has also helped me to understand him better and also to respect him for being less of a pushover in general. My H still has a bit of these tendencies, but he has changed quite a bit also. Without these changes, I don't think we would be able to fix our M. I would guess that a lot of male posters on the boards do not fall into the MNG category, so I am not sure why it is so widely suggested as a read.

Happy holidays!
Blu

Last edited by BluWave; 12/24/19 10:57 PM.

ďForgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.Ē Ė Nelson Mandela
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877513
12/25/19 04:05 AM
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Good evening ladies and any other lurkers. I'd love to continue this great dialogue happening. However, it is Christmas Eve for me and the holiday spirit has just captured me, so I'm distracted.

Wishing you all a Merry Christmas for those who celebrate or acknowledge the day. I am here in my apartment quite content with my busy day. It's nearly 11PM.

I'm quite the procrastinator when it comes to holidays, so I was frantically sewing up until about 9PM tonight for my mom's gift (she wanted a cover for her KitchenAid mixer). I'm please with how it turned out.

I've also spent the past few days cooking up a storm. I made a 4x batch of Limoncello this year which has been sitting for several months. Looks like I get a bit of extra for myself this year, and perhaps some other friends I don't typically gift to. I'm also making an Irish cream this year which is a quick thing I'll do tomorrow (cream, sweetened condensed milk, vanilla, cocoa, Jameson). I have a hot sauce I'll pulse together tomorrow, and I also need to strain and bottle the ginger liqueur I made. I made a 2x batch of bacon jam with one spicy and the other not so my mom could enjoy some. I love giving food gifts.

I made a chocolate swiss roll that has mascarpone cream in the middle. I made it last year, and it's light but decadent. I can't wait to enjoy it - I greatly enjoyed licking the bowls clean.

Oh, and some cranberry-Campari Jello shots grin

I didn't do my traditional homemade panettone this year (which takes 2-3 days and is intense and insane) because I no longer have a mixer. Perhaps I'll use my time before New Years to make it by hand. I had made Pizzelle for coworkers, and will make pignoli in the next few days.

In case you couldn't figure it out, Yail is Italian.

(Side bar: I made the pizzelle for a bunch of coworkers, one of which is my work-crush. She's also Italian. And I've discovered she's dating someone and very much not available BUT I still love having my little secret crush on her. And she was so thrilled by the pizzelle she gave me a big hug and declared she loved me. She was grateful, and I was so thrilled to have made something so appreciated. It made my week!)

I got a tree this year. I wasn't going to, then said "oh, screw it, I'd love one!". Last year was not a very festive one for me, but this year I'm celebrating. It's adorable in my apartment. I have the lights on it, but did not have time to put ornaments on. I plan on doing so after this post as I listen to my "Hipster Christmas" radio station and drinking wine in my fancy pajamas.

I also will wrap gifts after that, which isn't done. Yep, procrastinator!!

Tomorrow I will spend the morning finishing my food gifts and then head over to my brother/SIL's house about 20 minutes away. They are at her family's home, and I'll let myself in and get the roast in the oven by noon. They will return around 2PM and my parents and grandma will come over for 4PM dinner.

The only very tiny less-than-perfect element of tomorrow is that my rabbit will be at home while I'm with my family. She's my little buddy, and in my very perfect world she'd spend the day with me. But i'll spend the evening with her instead. My dad stopped over with some gifts for her - one was a carrot - and I tied it to the tree with the ribbon he had on it. Her very own ornament!! A new tradition. It's currently the only ornament. A tree with a carrot tied on it - that's it. Oh, yes, it looks insane and makes me giggle!!!!

Wishing you all tiny moments of joy and peace during this time of year. Whether you celebrate Christmas or not it is post-solstice and our days will be getting longer in this part of the world. And a New Year is around the corner.

Cheers to my internet support system. You all listened to me this past year and got me to this other side. I am toasting to you from my cozy living room and giving my gratitude to the Universe.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877514
12/25/19 04:20 AM
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Merry Christmas to you as well! I drool just reading about all you cook up for the holidays.


May'19 - Girlfriend of 2yrs left. Aug'19 - We became a "broken" couple (I needed validation, she screamed). Dec'19 - We gave up and went NC. Mar'20 - I've changed and she's eager for MC and us again.
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877525
12/25/19 05:50 AM
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CW - I gift you some imaginary bacon jam! Wish I could deliver it IRL! It's delicious. And how about some limoncello as well? It's excellent to enjoy on New Year's Day.

In all honesty, I don't mind sharing this awesome recipe. It's from a great book by America's Test Kitchen, just called "DIY Cookbook". The exact recipe is posted by another person here: http://cookingmadly.com/welcome-heres-bacon/

It's not overly complicated, but takes a little bit of time. It's a wonderful treat to put on a fried egg sandwich. Let's all make some and enjoy our egg sandwiches on New Year's Day to nurse our hangovers (speaking for myself over here!)

Merry Christmas to you.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877658
12/26/19 02:07 PM
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Iím loving the vibes in this thread. You got me at egg sandwiches!!!


W(me):40
H:45
M:15
BD: Sep 2019

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877790
12/27/19 04:22 PM
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Haha Yail! I checked out Sno Tha Product - awesome stuff! I like a whole crazy range of music. I was a full time singer/songwriter for several years in my early twenties. Kind of had a bluesy/acoustic coffee house vibe. Thanks for the music suggestion! One of my very best friends is a first generation Italian - and OMG - ya'll can cook. I'm glad you had a good Christmas and that your bun got a delicious Christmas treat as well. Aint no shame in a tree with a carrot HA!

KG


LBW 32 - me
WW 31
T 7 M 4
No Kids
4 dogs

Separated 1y
Navigating the mine field and GAL with or without
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2877856
12/27/19 09:33 PM
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Yail, you're the best!! The food gifts all sound amazing... have you ever made coffee liqueur? Super-simple and a gazillion times better than the commercially available ones...

Thanks for being such a bright light!


Me (44) H (40)
M:12 T:16
D7 and D9
BD1 ILYB: April 2019
BD2 H told me about EA: August 2019 (started Jan 2019)
BD3 Just kidding!! Been a PA for the past two years!! (Dec 2019)
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2878059
12/30/19 05:39 AM
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Minorly melancholy the past day or so, but I know it's temporary.

I guess I just do best with a routine, and I've had time off for the holidays. I really like my job, and it's what keeps me social. I have really interesting conversations and a purpose when I'm there. It's where most of my friends are. I feel like I belong there.

Everyone always wants more time to do "other" things in their life. I was going to spend this break to really set a few of my life plans for 2020. I have goals, but I wanted to outline them for myself and write out some ways I will accomplish them. That hasn't happened at all.

Mostly I've been lazy, but 'm trying to relax and remember that I'm on no one's timeline but my own. It's okay to take time off and truly do nothing - except I'm driving myself CRAZY.

When I pause I realize I have two specific items that have me bummed. 1) I'm very stressed financially after the holiday. I'm okay, but I feel that I have all this extra energy to spend, and I'd like to be making money with it. 2) I dropped out of one of my fall classes due to stress and the timing of it. This class isn't offered again until March. And while I was accepted into Grad school, they won't let me be simultaneously enrolled in this undergrad class alongside my grad classes. So I can't start my MBA until Summer. This is all my doing by conscious decisions, but I'm still bummed that I got bumped 6 months beyond my original plan.

So these are really not big things in the grand scheme. Really not. But they're capturing my brainspace these days, so i feel they need my attention.

I'm just in a little bored rut. But I'm looking forward to NYE. I plan on dying my hair bright purple and wearing my new Fenty lipstick and feeling fancy while drinking too much prosecco. I'll be staying in but feeling like my very best Yail - and looking forward to it. Who says I can't dress up for myself? I'm setting my intentions for 2020 by being unapologetic in what brings me great joy. Perhaps some drunk blogging will occur. Hopefully I don't start drunk texting.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2878065
12/30/19 07:42 AM
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*definitely* do not drink and text. Lol!!

You sound like a fun gal, I love me some prosecco also!! Iíve been trying to dress up more intentionally for myself also. I havenít dyed my hair in years so also thinking about getting it colored. Iíd love to do purple but it might be too much in my small town mom circle. Also Iíd be too lazy to maintain it haha.

Donít let your little bored rut get to you, keep up the PMA!


W(me):40
H:45
M:15
BD: Sep 2019

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: wooba] #2878111
12/30/19 05:23 PM
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Awww, never let a "small town mom circle" hold you back! Be the LEADER of that pack!

What about a fun new piercing? Nothing wrong with a new hole in your head. I'm always a fan of some dainty helix piercings.

Thanks for the encouragement Woosa. I've been feeling really awesome lately, and a small little hiccup of feeling human won't stop me. I tend to not accomplish things if I don't have a deadline, and that's something I'm working on changing, so I thought I'd document it here. I'm trying to keep myself accountable to those times when I just procrastinate and don't do what I wanted to do.

****************
A comment on the recent NMMNG topic:

Blu & FS, I agree with you both. I haven't read the book, but I get the sense that the book is helpful in understanding covert contracts within relationships. This is something I wish I had understood more about in my prior relationship, and I think it's valuable. But I also agree that here it has become some strange placeholder for the message of (as Blu stated) "get your b@lls back". Too much using the words, not enough reading the book (::guilty::)

Thanks for the great discussion! I really thought I was the only one who had some issues with a bit of the dialogue in a few of the threads here. I feel much more at home here the past few weeks, and really appreciate folks weighing in smile


(note: "Not all threads")
wink

(also: Ewww, I just grossed myself out with that joke)

************
FS: Thanks for the Fleabag recommendation - it does look like something I'd enjoy. I'll put it in my queue. I'm currently binging "Working moms" and I'm kind of in love with it.


***********
OK, last little thing, this time about my sitch.

I'm just waiting to hear I'm D. I have been feeling incredibly light the past few weeks since my piece of the work is 100% complete and I don't have any more visits or communications with my lawyer. That was heavy for me. I hated checking email to see where things were at. I'm feeling light in that I don't have any more obligations to W regarding the house or filing.

Being in this apartment has been incredibly healing and helpful. FS, you were so right in noting how much I needed to stay in the house to heal for the first part of our D process. I needed to feel somewhere familiar and safe. But I'm feeling adventuresome and energized now that I'm in my new space that is only MINE. I've only been here about 3 months but it's home now. It's amazing to me that I made that switch and feel so safe here.

Yet another instance where I couldn't see what was around the corner, but the fear was greater than the end result.

I know that when I get the email or piece of mail that states my D date I'll dip into a low funk again. It's the pattern, and I'm trying to be prepared for the fact that I'm sure I'll mourn some more. I do still think about her every day. Some days I miss her, some days I love her, some days I'm so angry I could scream. These days I'm feeling some disgust, which is a new emotion for me. That's all about the affair, I think I'm finally subconsciously processing some of that information.

I don't actually want this last little tie to W to be severed if I'm honest. I don't know what it symbolizes, but it feels like a dismissal of our 10 years together and all the promises for our lifetime. I want my life to be what it is right now: all about Yail, and all accomplishments and decisions are mine alone. I'm intrigued by flirting with new folks. But W will always be my W, and I wanted that too.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2878139
12/30/19 06:55 PM
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It is so true that the emotions come in cycles. I'm sure you'll have a few days of a low funk BUT I would suggest that when you feel that way, re-read some of your journey. You have always mainly posted about your own growth and things that make YAIL the woman she is and wants to become. It has definitely inspired several here and I think reading it could help motivate you out of any lows. I think it's the promises of a life together that are the hardest to make peace releasing. Remind yourself that your future is still very much fulfilling your dreams. Also, thanks for all the support and helpful incites on my sitch. Cheers to you!

KG


LBW 32 - me
WW 31
T 7 M 4
No Kids
4 dogs

Separated 1y
Navigating the mine field and GAL with or without
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2878147
12/30/19 07:32 PM
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And literally after posting about being done with legal things I get an email from my lawyer with a need for one more signature.

It's nothing big, just an interim domestic order which essentially states we cannot harass one another during this time when waiting for the final decree, and that all division of personal property must be agreed upon or it will be decided in court.So pretty much it states that things that were complete months ago (without dispute, I might add) should be done, and that we shouldn't bother one another in any undue fashion. Being NC, that's pretty easy.

It's something from the courts, not from one of our lawyers. It's an acknowledgement that our case is before the court at this time.

I just want to say that our legal system is so, so stupid. Like....so stupid.


I'm gonna place a bet that this will be over just after the new year. But who knows.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2878155
12/30/19 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Yail
A comment on the recent NMMNG topic:

Blu & FS, I agree with you both. I haven't read the book, but I get the sense that the book is helpful in understanding covert contracts within relationships. This is something I wish I had understood more about in my prior relationship, and I think it's valuable. But I also agree that here it has become some strange placeholder for the message of (as Blu stated) "get your b@lls back". Too much using the words, not enough reading the book (::guilty::)

Thanks for the great discussion! I really thought I was the only one who had some issues with a bit of the dialogue in a few of the threads here. I feel much more at home here the past few weeks, and really appreciate folks weighing in smile

NMMNG has been a transformative book for me. In no way do I see the message of the book distilled down to a "get your b@lls back" or "alpha" message.

However... it is absolutely talked about in this way sometimes, and in a way that makes me uncomfortable. I'm not sure if this is because people haven't read the book, the title is provocative (and a bit misleading), or because of one unfortunate section that takes away from the power of the book (in my opinion).

Sometimes there is a repressed hostility towards women on these threads. It has happened on my thread. I wish this didn't happen, it drives women away from giving valuable feedback. Also, one of the main points of the book is how NGs often end up having repressed hostility towards women because they don't know how to meet their needs in a healthy way. So it's a little bit ironic...

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: unchien] #2878199
12/30/19 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by unchien

Sometimes there is a repressed hostility towards women on these threads. It has happened on my thread. I wish this didn't happen, it drives women away from giving valuable feedback. Also, one of the main points of the book is how NGs often end up having repressed hostility towards women because they don't know how to meet their needs in a healthy way. So it's a little bit ironic...


From my perspective you hit the nail on the head unchien. Thank you for weighing in.

I suppose in some ways it can be the chicken or the egg question, can't it? So, if you have a WAS it is understandable to feel powerless in that situation, and powerlessness often feeds anger. So this anger becomes hostility towards your situation. To remedy it, you focus on being Alpha and taking your power back, and perhaps swing a bit too much in the other direction, and have a lack of empathy or understanding of the other side.

Flip that around, and perhaps you just always had a lack of understanding for the "other side", so you have a WAS in response. Same feelings, same outcome, but which came first? Maybe they were simultaneous, and a lack of speaking up for what you want was always there.

Anyway - that's exactly what you just said, but I had to write it out to digest it for myself.

****************
However, power is an interesting thing to examine in our sitches. And how we all feel powerless when our spouses leave, and that leads to a range of reactions.

This is going to be a gendered response - so I welcome feedback here - but hoping I don't start a heated discussion.

I think in our (western, patriarchal) society we see many more women feeling powerless in our every day lives. I'm not looking for a political discussion, but in a sweeping generalization I would say it is much more the norm for a woman to work through her own lack of power in the world.

So if a WAS situation happens, we have a range of experiences from which to draw. This isn't the first time we've been put aside with no regard to the outcome or our own desires.

If this is the first time someone's wishes are set aside with ZERO regard for their feelings - what does that feel like? For such a monumental and hurtful thing to be thrown, and this sudden realization that you can do NOTHING to stop it?

Anyone who has faced any adversity has a different skill set to draw from. I think it really does come down to personal experiences, and those of us who have had to practice working through powerlessness have a vastly different experience than those who have not yet encountered it.

Last edited by Yail; 12/30/19 10:38 PM.
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2878205
12/30/19 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Yail
I suppose in some ways it can be the chicken or the egg question, can't it? So, if you have a WAS it is understandable to feel powerless in that situation, and powerlessness often feeds anger. So this anger becomes hostility towards your situation. To remedy it, you focus on being Alpha and taking your power back, and perhaps swing a bit too much in the other direction, and have a lack of empathy or understanding of the other side.

Flip that around, and perhaps you just always had a lack of understanding for the "other side", so you have a WAS in response. Same feelings, same outcome, but which came first? Maybe they were simultaneous, and a lack of speaking up for what you want was always there.

Anyway - that's exactly what you just said, but I had to write it out to digest it for myself.

Yail ~ There is a degree of powerlessness in NGS. The (wrong) quick fix is to become more alpha and take back power. That shortcuts all the hard work that needs to be done. The problem for me is not that I gave my WAW too much power. The problem is that I placed all my self-worth in her hands, then thought I was a great H for doing so, and she should love me for that. I didn't even have my own version of the truth - if she expressed a strong feeling or emotion, well, that must be the truth then. I was completely out of touch with my own emotions. I figured if I just made her happy, WE would be happy. What an incredibly lonely feeling that must have been for her. It is an unhealthy dynamic.

I'm not suggesting I was a great H for acting in that way. For example, I would buy her flowers and hope it would make her happy, instead of just buying her flowers as an act of love. NGs think they are great guys when in fact they are complete doofuses much of the time.

Part of addressing all of this is to get back in touch with one's core values, stop acting passive aggressively, stop finding self-worth in another person's approval, and own your life. Sounds like DB, right? The side effect is one becomes more confident and assertive and learns to own their own happiness. Yes, that sounds a lot like more "alpha" behavior, which is more attractive (in general), etc. But just jumping straight to being more "alpha" doesn't address the core issues.

Unfortunately I'm too late addressing many of these issues. But it will serve me well as my life unfolds from now forward.

We all feel anger at times towards our WAS, and the powerlessness of the situation, and I think that is normal regardless of gender. When that anger drives our actions and behaviors and words -- then it is a problem.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2878279
12/31/19 05:20 PM
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So well stated unchien. A lot of my understanding of NGS had been around being passive-aggressive and covert contracts. I wasn't aware of the piece about placing self-worth in someone else's hands. Thank you for probably one of the best explanations I've seen on the board.

I'm right there with you on the feelings of it being too late for some of our discovered issues, but knowing we will be better moving forward. I unearthed many, many of my own shortcomings this past year. I wish I learned these lessons sooner while still in my M. But I didn't, so instead I will take them with me and try my hardest to keep learning along the way.

************
Journaling:

It's NYE! I'm a little disappointed in that it seems a farmer I had connected with isn't able to get me the specific product I had inquired about. I don't blame her, as it was something kind of custom that she hadn't planned on making this year. But also part of me was excited for a food challenge (I LOVE cooking new things!)

I had hoped she could make me cotechino, which is an Italian sausage that is cooked on NYE with lentils to bring prosperity. In all honesty, it's probably best if I don't make it. I told her I'd need the product for "6 - 8 people" because part of me wondered if I'd throw together a dinner party. Nope - just me - and I really don't need sausage for 8 people.

In thinking about this farmer, I feel the need to connect with her in 2020. I think her size farm is something I'm very interested in learning more about, and perhaps I can study with her a bit. She doesn't have goats, but something is drawing me to her.

I'm really examining my budget and decided I need to quit drinking because it's expensive, and also slash my grocery bill because I like nice food. I'm thinking January will be a challenge to see how low I can get the bill with meal planning while still eating wholesome, real food. I hope to make bread and yogurt weekly, and baked oatmeal for breakfasts. Perhaps several soups since my family got me a crock pot for my birthday a few weeks ago.

OH and I got a Kitchenaid mixer for Christmas! I'm no longer without!

I plan on reconnecting with "The Artists Way" next weekend, which I let slide. I plan on studying my PHP skills to prepare for my March class (*insert swearing at PHP*). I hope to take the very best care of myself in January and February before my classes start up again, and I find myself busy. If I make good habits the first two months I think I can continue them throughout the year.

And I will somehow pull together a new life plan in 2020. I will keep my vision of a small home and bit of land for homesteading in my minds eye, and figure out how to get there. It won't be in 2020, but I hope I can lay the groundwork by saving and/or studying.

A year of groundwork. That sounds appropriate. Time for Yail to dig-in and take charge. My Year of Risks. Just writing this makes me so excited.

Ok. No more lazing about. Time to get ready for the day, get a biga for bread started, and hit the town. Fresh air is needed.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2878338
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Happy New Year to all. In my timezone we are now just after midnight.

A quiet and successful evening here at Casa di Yail. I made two huge and delicious loaves of bread so it smelled delicious. I don't think I've made bread in at least a year, and it felt really good. I made a gallon of milk's worth of fresh ricotta and saved the whey for a future use (TBD - suggestions welcomed!).

Last time I worked with whey I was feeding it to the pigs. I know there are a million uses for human consumption, but I'm not sure what. The homesteader in me wants to learn!

I dyed my blond section of my hair a beautiful bright purple and I love it. It was previously bright pink which had faded to bubblegum. I accidentally stained my sink in the rinsing process, so it looks like a unicorn vomited in my bathroom. Oops.

I'm wearing my gorgeous new Fenty lipstick I got for Christmas and look Fancy AF. YAY FANCY YAIL

A nice cheeseboard for dinner with good olives/nuts/cheeses/meats/grissini/dates. A bottle of Prosecco over the past 3 hours, and just popped a second that I'll drink much faster. 2019 ended with me behaving. 2020 will likely start with me a weeeee bit passed out in about an hour. Year of Risks? (JK)

I'm 3 minutes into Michelle Wolf's new Netflix special and I'm already crying laughing, so that's a good way to bring in the year!

Lots of folks on my social media are being reflective and introspective about their past decade. I feel that way too in some ways, but with a separation/divorce it's not something I really feel like posting. It's not really appropriate or wanted.

What I actually am reflecting on is where I'm at now. As in, in this past month. In a very non-heavy way. I'm newly discovering what I can do with makeup (thanks to my SIL), and consider lipstick my gateway make-up. I didn't know it could be so FUN! I see 2020 as a year I get to play around with my aesthetic in makeup, jewelry, and clothing. I can present myself in any way I choose. Every day is a new, fresh day!

Ok, 7 minutes into this comedy special and I'm literally wiping away tears. Apparently this mascara is waterproof.

2020 can be my year of saying "yes" to whatever i please, because I have nothing holding me. If I got swept up in a dumb love saga I could move in with my lover tomorrow. (note: ewww. Just...ewww.). But realistically, I have a lot of free time. I can learn SO much if I set my mind to it. I can accomplish whatever I want. I always could, but now I just have the drive to do so. I have clarity.

But with...heels...and Fenty...and a really intense killer Femme vibe.

(Yail's wine is kicking in)

(18 minutes in to Michelle's special and I'm officially snorting when I laugh. I have not laughed this hard or this long in FOREVER.)

Ok I'm losing my focus.

Ummmm 2020. It's gonna be great y'all. For all of us. In varied ways. The important takeaways are:
1) Find colors that work for you
2) Watch a ton of stand-up comedy, and apparently Netflix's selection is great
C) Eat good food. It's good for your soul.
D) Drink your water, get enough sleep, wash your sheets often so you can sleep to that awesome fresh clean smell and not be gross.
E) Buy good quality and cute undergarments so you always have a top secret reason to feel like you're on your game when you leave the house


And that, ladies and gentlemen, is Yail's not very impressive advice for 2020. In all seriousness I wish you well and hope that the new year brings you a fresh breath and feelings of newness.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2878350
01/01/20 09:11 AM
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A happy new year to you also Ms Yail.

I don't think anyone has ever made staying in sound so so glamourous. Go you. And the food sounds excellent.

Your 2020 advice reminds me of the "Everybody's Free (to wear sunscreen)" speech from the Romeo and Juliet soundtrack.

"Maybe you'll marry, maybe you won't, maybe you'll have children, maybe you won't, maybe you'll divorce at 40, maybe you'll dance the funky chicken on your 75th wedding anniversary. Whatever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much or berate yourself, either. Your choices are half chance, so are everybody else's. Enjoy your body, use it every way you can. Don't be afraid of it, or what other people think of it, it's the greatest instrument you'll ever own.

Dance . Even if you have nowhere to do it but in your own living room.


I find YouTube a good place to find make-up tips. I suspect I'm not as out there as you so tend to go for more subdued 'natural' looks but I do like watching the more dramatic tutorials.

Uh, and totally with you on the undergarments thing. I've been a bit lazy of late, but there is nothing like a cute set under boring work clothes to remind myself that I am more than one thing. I can be sexy and corporate.


W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2878370
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That's a brilliant speech, and so appropriate for all of us here! Thanks for sharing FS!

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01/01/20 06:20 PM
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In addition to 2020 being the year of :

"Do no harm. Take not $hit"

It will also be:

"F#(*ing right I'm relentless"

which is from The Hamilton Mix Tapes (Lin Manuel Miranda, in "Wrote my way out")

Boy, I'd better get going on my cross stitch. I'm still working on my "QUEER" piece I started last spring because I'm sloooowwww

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2878769
01/04/20 07:42 PM
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I spent the morning on a goat farm for the first time since my time in Italy. It was a short farm visit (community event) and I went with my SIL. I returned home after smelling quite strongly of goat.

It was great. My love of these creatures hasn't diminished despite the fact I haven't had the opportunity to work with them since June. This farm was new to me, and they have a bunch of volunteer opportunities, so I think I may start seeing if I can volunteer there.

I also reached out about a potential part time job that would be in addition to my full time work. I'm not sure if it will be a good match or not, but I'll be having the conversation.

I was having a conversation with SIL this morning about how/when I might be able to buy a house. My situation is that I am not currently able to save money in my apartment. It's at my budget. But if I were to put in some hustle and get another job I could do it. It just depends where I want to focus my energy. Working on my Masters degree and building my social circle? Or working really hard at two jobs PLUS grad school with less time for social growth? It will likely end up being a choice, and something I need to be very intentional about.

Right now I'm leaning towards the hustle, but I'm still working through it. Today my time on the farm really helped assure me that's the life i want, and if that's what I want I need to WORK for it.

So, we will see.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2880187
01/12/20 03:37 PM
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Not much to update over here at Casa di Yail. Still waiting on official D word, and still not sure if it will be tomorrow or May.

Since the New Year I'm finding myself to be much calmer and steady. For a while I was flying super high with an abundance of energy and a mindset of "Go! Go! Go!". It was great, and it was needed to get me through a really intense crunch-time. Now I still have a great deal of energy but I'm also feeling a bit more normal and grounded with a focus on making some solid plans and slow-steady work to achieve these goals. I'm feeling productive in my life.

I'm on time or ahead on my projects at work, which is a place I've never really been able to be. I guess I just feel like I've really got my head "in the game" these days, and the months and months of being distracted with a memory of a goldfish seem to have passed. There was such a long time when I couldn't remember anything due to my distraction over my sitch.

I think it will be a good transition. It has put me in a good space mentally. I'm taking better care of myself with making home cooked meals every day, and I cut way, way back on drinking. It was a budget-based decision but my body also thanks me for being sober most nights. I'm trying to be consistent with my sleep and waking up earlier to be productive. Overall I'm feeling calm and present. I'm also crafting a lot which for me is a major source of therapy. I feel my best and grounded when I'm knitting or doing cross stitch or sewing. It's also the time I consciously or subconsciously work out my emotions towards XW because my mind can wander while I work. I'm feeling less anger again.

I find myself listening to my friends/colleagues discuss their own relationships in a different way. I see the subtly toxic behaviors, or avoidance of issues, or ambivalence towards a partner. I never caught on to these clues before I had my own experience. And I'm not trying to think that I know better than they do, but I feel sometimes that my experience would lead me down such a different path if I were in their shoes. I don't step in to give advice unless asked. But I find myself worrying about a few of these folks and what the future of their R is. In these moments I see just how different I am now than I was 2 years ago while in a R, and 1 year when I was dealing with the post BD effects.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2880237
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I love reading your updates these days. Even this update, which is more subdued and talks to cutting back on social activities in favour of spending time on personal projects. They are so full of optimism. Not in an overcompensating kind of way, but an accepting things as they are and looking at the positive.

I am fairly crafty - but not a finisher. My home is full of half finished paintings. I get all excited, paint for days, and then stop. Cycle repeats every 3 months or so. I have an oil painting of cherry blossoms which is now only missing the sky - and has been since about July last year.

I cut back a lot on the socialising (read drinking) in Dec and I mean to keep it up now that I am back at work. The problem has always been the heavy drinking culture in my industry (I was able to side step it for years due to being happily married and having young kids) but once he moved out (and started having the kids overnight) the temptation to stay out "sure, but just one more drink" became a lot harder to say no to. Why go home when there is no-one to go home too. But it wasn't good for my pocket or my well being.


W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2880256
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I am very much not a finisher when it comes to projects. I have piles (piles!) of unfinished knitting projects either still on needles or holding yarn. I have dozens of unfinished clothing items. But I've been returning to them and wrapping them up and just saying, "There. Look. I did it, it is complete. And it's off my list, and I can use it now". It feels very in line with my homesteading goals of making useful, productive items.

I have one sweater that needs about 20 minutes of a seam finished. Then it will be wearable and complete. The last time I touched it was the day W asked me for a D. I was working on it when she asked if we could talk, and I knew it was coming so I was making myself busy. I set it aside, turned to her, and listened. That part I remember very clearly. I haven't picked it up since then. It's a gorgeous sweater - a deep but intense purple with a subtle herringbone pattern. It's not that it brings back bad memories - it doesn't, not really. Subtly, perhaps. But when I see it in the "unfinished" pile I do remember that day. Maybe if I finish it and wear it it will start having a new association. Like the time I started it while we were vacationing (2015? Maybe?). And then returned home and ripped it out because I didn't like the sizing. And then worked on it again for years (yes, years) until it finally got to the near-finished status it is in now. And how I'll wear it now in my new life, perhaps with some cute black jeans and (yes) boots while running around campus, wearing a bright pink lipstick.

Am I attaching too much emotion or memory to an item? Maybe. But I guess that's why crafting and creation is so important to me. I make things from scratch, and they're mine, and I put myself into them.

They're not all that serious. I have a simple but cute cabled hat I made a couple months ago I call my "finish up the yarn" hat. It is 90% greyish-brown, and the very tip of the hat is navy blue. Because I was using up yarns, and saw no reason to not just finish the hat in a completely different color. They're quality wool yarns! And now I wear it all around town when I dress down in my flannel shirts. I call it my farmer outfit, because I look like a local young farmer when I wear it. I have even been known to wear it to the local hipster coffee shop with the hopes of attracting the attention of a hot local farmer and maybe start some conversations (wink, wink). Dressing the part to attract a different/specific type to flirt with? Maybe.

FS, I hope you continue to reapproach painting. Maybe you'll finish an old one, maybe you'll always start new. But the process of working on art is so important to our healing and seeing ourselves clearly through all this muck.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2881270
01/18/20 04:26 PM
01/18/20 04:26 PM
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Yail Offline OP
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I think I love my little apartment.

I was so scared to come here, because my previous experiences in apartment living on my own were less than stellar. I forgot I was also in my early 20s and it was a 20-year-old's apartment. It was cheap, I had no furniture, and I had strange neighbors.

I was so upset at not having a yard or a garden, nervous about how the rabbit would adjust, sad that the kitchen is tiny. Well, it's winter and it's frigid outside so I'm not missing anything there. The heat in this place is powerful and not too expensive! I'll be so busy this summer with work that using a yard is likely not something I'd have time for, and I hear my work has community gardens I can rent. Lunchtime gardening!! And little Miss Hopper is adorable and loving as always in her new home. I built her a new hidey-hole out of a big cardboard box and she has been adjusting it to her preferred specs by digging and chewing.

And the kitchen is tiny - that's for sure. I'm making it work. But it's a gas stove which I haven't had in forever and that part is wonderful. I just pulled out a warm sugary coffee cake.

I think the time of year reminds me of last winter when I was hunkered down and focused on my own healing. I think often of FlySolo's post to me about how the house had been my place to heal, and something I clung to post BD when W left. It's true, I needed that nest of safety and familiarity so much. But I'm amazed at how quickly I've settled into my new life routine.

I try to wake up at 6AM, though I fail most of the time. But I try. I am drinking so much less than when XW and I were together, making my mornings clearer and brighter.

****

Cross your fingers for me that I may have picked up a part time job. It would be bartending on Saturdays, which is perfect. It's too hard for me to waitress after work during the week, because shifts usually start at 3:30pm, and I work until 5 at my full time job. I could probably make it work by adjusting schedules, but I'd likely get burnt out working until 11PM, and trying to make both work. I'm hopeful that this Saturday-only gig works out, and hopeful that there are the occasional lucrative shifts.

Well, it's a place my brother frequents often, so at least I'd have some folks to talk to :-D

I've set some ambitious financial goals for myself for the year. I'm breaking them up into smaller goals with the hope of staying on track and making it possible. 2020 will be the year I develop a full plan to get my house/barn that I want.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2881274
01/18/20 05:01 PM
01/18/20 05:01 PM
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(((Yail))). I do so admire your one-foot-in-front-of-the-other attitude and your capacity for self-reflection and forgiveness. You really are one of a kind and have been such a great support to me and others on here Yail. I think you are wise beyond your years and I never had any doubt that you would get to the place you are at.

So happy you have found some things to like about apartment living. One of my favourite places I have lived was in an apartment that backed onto a large creek (almost a river). I could hear the rushing water at night and when I was feeling stressed, I would go out in the middle of the creek, sit down on a rock and just let the water rush by me. I could hear nothing else and it was so peaceful and amazing. That place holds such a special place in my heart.

So cool that you know how to knit. I think I may have knit a scarf in my younger days but thatís about it. Donít remember much about it. The image you painted of you in your new sweater and your pink lipstick was so beautiful. I could see you in my mindís eye...full of life, love and light and ready to take on the world and whatever it has in store for you. You are a force, no doubt.

Oh...and btw... I REALLY hope you find your Jaqueline!!! (((HUGS)))


Me 51
H 46
B/G Twins 11
SD19
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2881275
01/18/20 05:02 PM
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PS... the bar tending job sounds great!! I love jobs that require you to socialize. laugh


Me 51
H 46
B/G Twins 11
SD19
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2881302
01/18/20 09:32 PM
01/18/20 09:32 PM
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Yail Offline OP
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DV - I know, right? My current full time job is social, but to have this bar tending gig is a different kind of social and I'm hopeful. I know a few folks were interviewing for the position, but I'm hoping my age/maturity/availability will win out. Plus my bro and SIL know the owners (networking for the win????)

And when I say "bar tending", it's at a brewery. No mixing drinks, literally just pouring beers for folks. Totally a lezzie magnet type place. Maybe I get a little work-appropriate flirting at work? Or maybe just get over my nerves and practice smiling at cuties. Overall I'm comfortable with myself and pretty confident, but not when it comes to other lesbians. I get all shy and run away or don't make eye contact. But flirting in the name of "customer service" could be the ticket I need for some practice. It would literally be my job, so no worries about not knowing if she was feeling the same. Just some basic practice turning on the charm.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2881303
01/18/20 09:34 PM
01/18/20 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Yail
I think I love my little apartment.


I think I love your little apartment too. A home really is what you make of it. It is a reflection of who you are. And who you are, who you are becoming, is a person who is falling in love with her life. I have in my minds eye, a vision of it. You, on some big comfy chair surrounded by yarn, knitting a jumper, the smell of fresh coffee and bread in the air, laughing out loud at some inappropriate (and curse filled) comedy on netflix. Your flat is a miss-match of furniture, throws, plants, books and magazines all beautifully coming together.

I am really really happy for you.

****

Fingers crossed about the job. It sounds perfect, brings you out of your comfort zone, introduces you to a new circle of friends, and keeps you busy on a Saturday night. It will also allow you to flex those flirting muscles. I think flirting is the wrong word btw - call it the charm initiative, because flirty can be full of expectations. I try and be 'nice' to people, start conversations, listen to their stories. There is no intent behind these interactions, just strangers sharing stories.


FS


W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2881306
01/18/20 10:02 PM
01/18/20 10:02 PM
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How interesting FS! On your thoughts on the word Flirty.

I think I used to feel the same as you about flirting and expectations. To flirt before when I was partnered was dangerous, I felt it would be cheating (insert hysterical laughter at my naivete). But then I made this new friend, and she is a FLIRT. Capital F. With me but also with others, both straight and non-straight women. She is married, and her W knows her personality. And just because it is part of her personality, and she owns up to it, I see it as a very non-threatening no-expectations kind of communication. She has outright said to me "Hey, if this is ever too much please let me know. It's how I am, but I don't want to make you uncomfortable".

It makes her smile, brings her joy, is a slight tug-of-war game. And then we go home after hanging out and things are chill. This is the first I've ever in my life seen flirting as just a way to have a little fun, as long as it is done in a respectful, honest fashion. And I'm starting to wonder if people were more open about flirting with non-partners, maybe cheating would be less taboo and therefore occur less? You have to have pretty great communication with your partner if you're going to hang out with friends and flirt with them, while your partner is still feeling safe and loved in the R.

It's just something I've been turning around in my head lately, and has really brought me into a space of wanting to flirt and be open/honest in my communications. You are right, of course, about managing expectations. I would never want to give someone the wrong signals, and how you described getting to know someone is in line with something I need to practice as well.


Oh, and you're pretty spot on with my apartment. Only one tiny plant (not enough natural light for more - lots of cozy lamps during the winter), but you've nailed the perpetual coffee & bread smell.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2881927
01/23/20 12:25 AM
01/23/20 12:25 AM
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It is official. Yail is divorced.

I was correct on my speculation that it would take place close to the new year. It became official two weeks ago and I was alerted today.

I'm glad that I learned the date is past, and not a date in the future. No anxiety of build up this way - it has already happened and took place without notice or fanfare. I'm very, very grateful for that.

My low-grade anxiety over the anticipation of this notice had been building, hence my more frequent postings and presence on these boards. I'm glad that anxiety will subside.

I found out just before leaving work, so I learned it in a place I felt secure and comfortable. I stayed late today, and decided to check my personal email one more time. I felt a bit shaky as I read it, but not too overwhelmed. I took care of the final emailed response right then and there so it was off my plate and not looming.

I called my BFF. She never answers the phone because she has a family and is busy in the evenings. I caught her and she answered! I kind of awkwardly stuttered the words. We talked for a few. I told her I just wanted to call her and say the words out loud.

so now I am at home, in my apartment. Tucked in to a huge plate of enchiladas, and slowly sipping a martini (which does not go at all with dinner, so it's on pause until I'm done). I asked myself what I really wanted tonight for some comfort. Did I want to go buy an expensive bottle of wine as a treat? Make a huge plate of dessert to devour? Visit anyone? No, what I really wanted is to turn the heat all the way up to 75 and not give a second thought to the heating bill. So tonight is my sauna night where I will be toasty warm without needing to put on a sweater.

How do I feel about W now? Nothing has changed. I am still angry at her choices. But I love her in my own way. "In my own way" is probably the most accurate description for me now. It allows me to not really know. I have something deep for her and always will but that doesn't mean I know if I would or would not want her again. I can't answer that because it's not a real question on the table. She's not a real person in my life anymore. So "In my own way" allows me to acknowledge that there is a type of love that exists, but I don't think I can define it anymore.


*******

My day ended (prior to the email) as I worked with a colleague from another department. Someone that is my senior, but we have a very good working relationship. And she periodically dips into my field of expertise, and makes decisions different than those I would make. But she owns them, and I can see what she is going for. I make different suggestions, but we always go with hers as she is the senior staffer.

And for about the third time in a row, her plans did not work out. I step in with Plan B (and a Plan C in my mind) and reinvent her work into something great. She was (and always is) grateful. I wondered if this is the time she learns to trust my expertise. Perhaps not. But our rapport is a good one, and I always leave our projects giggling to myself, just waiting for her to really step back and let me take over when our work steps into my field.

My reason for sharing this is that my day ended really, really well. I had yet another reminder I'm in the right place right now. My boss has hinted that when she retires I would be good for her job, and even said this week, "You have the ability to do it now". I've never been in a place where I had an option of upward mobility. Honestly, I've had jobs that were very poor fits, and I did very poorly in them. Who knows what the next few years brings, but at least I see one option that involves growth in my career.






********

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2881930
01/23/20 01:14 AM
01/23/20 01:14 AM
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I donít really know what would be fitting. Your sitch is very similar to mine, so I guess Iím trying to say I hear you.

Sadness, acceptance, optimism. Itís weird how those three can occupy the same space at the same time, but they do.

Iím sorry this has happened to you. But it has. Sadness for the past,, acceptance of the present, optimism for the future.

That is your gift to me.

Thank you


W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2881931
01/23/20 01:16 AM
01/23/20 01:16 AM
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Yail- Iím so happy for you that you are closing the the previous chapter and opening up another in your life. You day ended really nicely. Enchiladas and a martini.....heat turned up... nothing could top that really!! There is so much calmness coming from your words. I wish that I will have a day like yours when and if my D day comes.

Wishing you all the best moving forward.


W(me):40
H:45
M:15
BD: Sep 2019

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2881932
01/23/20 01:35 AM
01/23/20 01:35 AM
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Hi Yail, I have read bits and pieces of your threads. I don't know if condolences are appropriate in this situation, because you seem pretty okay with what has happened. As FS mentioned above, sadness, acceptance, optimism. Perhaps 'congratudolences' are called for in this instance? I enjoyed your description of your apartment - the baking, the knitting, the enchiladas. Warmth and cosiness and peace. Your life sounds very full.


W 31 | H 29
Together 8 | Married 3
S2

BD | 06/19
Separation | 07/19
OW confirmed | 10/19
I FILED 12/19
Settlement | 05/20
Divorce | TBD 06/20

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2881953
01/23/20 04:29 AM
01/23/20 04:29 AM
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Thinking of you and your wonderful little apartment. Love your assessment of the bar tending job. Sounds like a fantastic opportunity to be social and meet new people. (((HUGS)))


Me 51
H 46
B/G Twins 11
SD19
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2883643
02/02/20 04:45 PM
02/02/20 04:45 PM
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Yail Offline OP
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Thank you all for your notes. I really appreciated the simple act of acknowledging the fact that I am processing this. It made a difference and I thank you for it.

I've been down with the flu, and feeling a bit like garbage for over a week. And now I'm in this kinda depressive funk and I can't figure out if it's the divorce finality, or my sickness. Things just look bleak.

I know logically that nothing is bleak. I have wonderful adventures ahead of me, but I can't see them right now. This isn't like me. And I think the fact that I have no energy makes everything just feel harder. Even my great love - cooking & eating - feels like a terrible chore that I don't want to do.

****************

I'm in a funny place when it comes to my thoughts on dating, and it's on my mind a lot. Overall, I don't feel lonely. I like my solo life and I get social time at work. But there is the obvious missing of being close to someone - both physically and emotionally - that has me a little down these days. So I pause and consider dating. And I just don't want someone in my life in that intense way. I don't want to build a R where it leads to (years from now) co-habitating and being with one another all the time. I want my space, I want to work on buying a house that is MY house, and I don't want distractions from that. I don't want anyone else interfering. I don't want anyone impacting it financially.

I realize this is a cart before the horse situation. Which is why I can't figure out why my feelings about dating are so visceral and strong. I could, if I wanted, be very open about just wanting something light and casual. Coffee dates and the occasional hike kind of thing.

I think it has something to do with being partnered for so much of my life, and that XW was very much the leader in determining our lifestyle. I just feel like now I want every decision to be mine. I'm feeling wildly selfish in this, with zero desire to compromise on anything. I'd rather be solo and own every decision than partnered and figuring it out together.

Some days I feel like there is no one out there to date that would suit me. It's strange. Why would I think that? I just haven't met them yet, that's all. I remind myself that next semester maybe there will be a hot new professor who has just moved to the area - or maybe I meet someone through a friend-of-a-friend situation. It only takes one day for life to change. I just have to keep being social and before I know it I'll meet someone who doesn't make me overthink it.

I think maybe I just need something new in my life. A new hobby or activity will bring a new perspective. Hobbies cost money. So I'll need to do some thinking on what it is that will bring a spark of newness into my life.

*************

Well, one exciting thing is I get my tattoo on Friday. Nice big floral piece on my upper thigh. I'm nervous about seeing the design - what if I don't love it? I'll have to wait for a redesign, and I'm just so ready to get this. But the artist has such an amazing portfolio I'm sure it will be great. SIL is coming with me and we'll get some brunch first. I took Friday off from work just because I could.

It's going to be so sexy. I can't wait.

************
Right now all I want is to travel. Anywhere. Two hours away for a change of scenery would do. But my budget is so tight that I have my weekly Trivia Night beers budgeted, and my grocery budget is at $125/month. So I'm left feeling antsy and annoyed and stifled.

This is all the flu talking. I'm just cranky down to my bones, doing nothing but watching endless tv. I'm sure I'll be feeling better soon.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2883654
02/02/20 05:42 PM
02/02/20 05:42 PM
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Awww Yail. Sorry to hear you are feeling down in the dumps. That happens when we get sick, I think. We lie around feeling crappy with nothing much to do but think. Not unusual for those thoughts to be somewhat on the negative side. Just know that, this too, shall pass. You just have to hang on until it does.

Thatís a pretty tight budget you have there. I can see how it would feel restricting after awhile. Ever consider getting a roommate to offset the cost of living. I lived with roommates when I was single. My favourite roommate was actually a guy that I knew from pool but wasnít a close, close friend. I liked it because he didnít have any expectations of us being besties and hanging out 24/7 but we hung out from time to time and it was nice having someone else in the house at night. On Sundays we would go down to the local coffee place and sit outside chatting with whoever else showed up that we knew. I look back on those days with a lot of fondness. Splitting the bills with someone also gave me lots of freedom to go places that I maybe couldnít have done if all my money was going towards monthly bills.

Anyway...just a thought. I know that roommates arenít for everyone.

(((HUGS)))


Me 51
H 46
B/G Twins 11
SD19
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2883660
02/02/20 06:17 PM
02/02/20 06:17 PM
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Yail Offline OP
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Thanks DV. I'm trying to be patient, and I'm quite sure that 90% of my mood is related to the sickness. I'm almost over it - I'm hoping my mood is the last hurdle. I think today I need to get some fresh air.

I go back and forth on the roommate idea or cheaper apartment idea. If I want to buy a house I have to be realistic about it - I need to slash my costs and earn more money and the only place to cut is housing. At the same time, I want to live by myself. So I'm trying to figure out which is more important to me, because it's a decision I'm actively making by living this solo lifestyle in my high-rent town.

But also I just barely settled into my cute little apartment, and I like living here by myself. I'm in a desirable neighborhood, and I think I want to stay through summer. I'm in walking distance to the lake and parks and bike path and work. I think it might lead to a really enjoyable summer with free outdoor entertainment. That part is pretty cool!

My budget forcasts show it loosening up in April, so I just need to be patient. January I had three family birthdays, so with dinners and gifts it was an exceptionally hard month (but I did it!). My tattoo is an obvious luxury, and that's part of the budget tightness, but I have some money earmarked. And March is when I have a couple once-a-year bills due. But April I have actually budgeted a bit of savings, so I'm trying to stay firm until then.

Part of this is me needing to prove to myself just how resilient and tough I can be. Resourceful too.

In October the plan is to go back to Italy, this time with my mom. She has never been. So I have until then to earn the extra money I need to not dip into savings for the trip. I need my focus and drive back.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2883677
02/02/20 07:46 PM
02/02/20 07:46 PM
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Look at you and how different that post was!!! Youíre looking forward to some things and can see the silver lining in the clouds. Now thatís the Yail we know and love!!! BTW...you donít need to prove that you are resilient and tough... you just ARE!!! (((HUGS)))


Me 51
H 46
B/G Twins 11
SD19
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2883690
02/02/20 08:35 PM
02/02/20 08:35 PM
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Yeah...and I just took a walk down to the water which helped. It looks cold smile First time I could breath without panting and gasping for air in about 10 days.The cold air and sunshine helped my mood a bit. Stupid exercise. I never do it.

I'm trying so hard not to whine, but I really feel whiny. I realize how good my life is despite the temporary restrictions. I'm trying to look at everything I have - which is so, so much.

So tonight I'm going to clean my apartment, make turkey kofta, and maybe try to make some naan. My appetite is starting to slowly peek its head around the corner, so I figure I'll make some yummies to encourage it. I'm going to very intentionally NOT watch that famous sports game that is on tv because that is the benefit of my being single.

And maybe I'll play video games like the adult that I am. With a huge mug of tea that sounds like the perfect way to kick this sickness that just wants to linger.

Who knows. Maybe tomorrow I'll see my work crush. That always helps my mood.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2883701
02/03/20 01:03 AM
02/03/20 01:03 AM
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And it just gets better!!! Sounds like a great evening to me Yail! (((HUGS)))


Me 51
H 46
B/G Twins 11
SD19
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2884402
02/07/20 01:31 AM
02/07/20 01:31 AM
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Posts: 641
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Guys, I am just DYING tonight. Tomorrow is tattoo day.

It's also a snow storm, so I'm crossed fingers that we don't need to reschedule last minute. I can get to the studio (I'll walk the two miles if I have to), and I hope my artist can as well.

Sis-in-law is supposedly coming too for moral support and fun girls-day. We're gonna do breakfast first, then studio. She comes from 20 minutes away by car, and roads can be bad. But she has 4-wheel drive and isn't flinching, so I think all will proceed as planned.

I'm getting nervous and amped up. I've waited for this for about a year, solidifying the idea and layout in my mind - really checking in with myself to see if I want it. In some ways I'm not a tattoo person. The permanence actually gives me some anxiety, but the aesthetic is very Yail. This one I just need to do, and I don't have the same anxiety about the permanence.

I haven't seen the artist's design, so I'm hoping it's love at first sight. That's what I'm most nervous about. I trust her, I LOVE her portfolio, but also I won't proceed unless it's perfect for me. I want it to be perfect for me so I can have my perfect tattoo day.

I've already picked out what I want to order from the breakfast place. I haven't been out to eat in so long due to budget that this is a real treat day. Plus I finally have my appetite back after last week's flu, so I'm REALLY excited for something decadent. Might even get a cinnamon roll to go. (cue Beth Stelling's stand-up "Upfront 2018"). Should I be this excited about breakfast? Ummmmm yes.

And then? Well I guess the smart thing is to stay home for the rest of the day due to the roads. Perhaps SIL and I will play some video games together. Prosecco and video games sounds like a pretty awesome snow day to me.

And then Saturday perhaps we'll watch my brother play hockey. Gosh, I love them so much. My bro and SIL are seriously my favorite people in the world. We just get along so well, we have similar hobbies, and they have welcomed me into their life in a way that probably wouldn't be the same if I was still partnered.

Ok, I'm going to try to keep myself together tonight and to get a good night's sleep. Cross your fingers for me that tomorrow is as awesome as I want it to be.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2884405
02/07/20 01:37 AM
02/07/20 01:37 AM
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cardinal Offline
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Yali, I havenít posted on your thread before, but I just want to say this snow day sounds amazing, and I hope you absolutely love your tattoo. And definitely order the cinnamon roll to go!


T: 16 M:10
BD 6/2019
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2884429
02/07/20 05:50 AM
02/07/20 05:50 AM
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may22 Offline
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Hi Yail,

So excited for your tattoo day. I wish we had photos here so we could see it. I'm sure it is going to be amazing.

You are really an inspiration for so many of us here, Yail. I hope you wake up to a beautiful snowy day with plowed roads and a smooth cozy drive to brunch, a beautiful breakfast with your SIL where you laugh a ton and drink too many coffees and maybe a mimosa or two to go along with your extra cinnamon roll. That the artwork is beyond what you had hoped and it looks even better on your skin than on paper. That the rest of your weekend just builds from there.

xx May


Me (44) H (40)
M:12 T:16
D7 and D9
BD1 ILYB: April 2019
BD2 H told me about EA: August 2019 (started Jan 2019)
BD3 Just kidding!! Been a PA for the past two years!! (Dec 2019)
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2884433
02/07/20 06:05 AM
02/07/20 06:05 AM
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DejaVu6 Offline
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I hope it is an amazing day Yail!!! You totally deserve it!!! (((HUGS)))


Me 51
H 46
B/G Twins 11
SD19
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2884435
02/07/20 06:36 AM
02/07/20 06:36 AM
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FlySolo Offline
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Go Yail !!!!

Wish we could post pics here and your tattoo day sounds amazing.

Should you be excited about breakfast? Man, I'm excited for your breakfast.


W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2884461
02/07/20 01:52 PM
02/07/20 01:52 PM
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AnotherStander Offline
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Good luck with the tatt! I didn't get my first one until after D and now I have full arm and leg sleeves, LOL! It's hard to stop at one smile


Me: 58 w/ S16, D22, D25
Current R: 4 years
Previous M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:56
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2884528
02/07/20 05:16 PM
02/07/20 05:16 PM
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KristinG Offline
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Get it girl!!! I just got caught up on your thread - sorry about the nasty flu! No fun at all. Sickness always puts me in the dumps emotionally too. I'm glad it seemed to turn around for you. Your tattoo sounds ahhhhmazing! I hope the artist's rendering is more than you could have imagined. I didn't know that you love video games. I'm a huge gamer myself and your snow day sounds like my "perfect day" haha. Fingers crossed for an amazing weekend with your SIL and lots of laughs.

KG


LBW 32 - me
WW 31
T 7 M 4
No Kids
4 dogs

Separated 1y
Navigating the mine field and GAL with or without
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2884607
02/07/20 10:15 PM
02/07/20 10:15 PM
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Yail Offline OP
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It's done!! It's beautiful! I have the cutest thigh in all of (my town)!

It's really a pretty big blizzard out there. SIL braved it without even blinking, and off we went this morning for some breakfast. Whoops. The place we wanted to go was closed due to blizzard. Darn, no cinnamon rolls today. So we went to a great diner instead and I ate sooooo many carbs. Yum.

SIL insisted on paying despite my displeasure and desire to treat her. Next time. When the other restaurant is open we will just have to go again. I also promised I'd make her some homemade cinnamon rolls in addition.

Tattoo parlor was indeed open despite half of town being closed (I was scrolling through my social media feed looking at all the businesses that didn't open). Love those women. Bad @$$ women who won't disappoint their clients. If I ever get another tattoo I will not go anywhere else. I absolutely chose the right studio and artist.

Very minimal changes to the design proposed to me. One placement adjustment. It's probably about 4''x 6'' with roses, poppies, and lavender. My favorites, each with very specific meaning to me. Also flowers I have/will again grow myself. Black and white with very thin/light lines and subtle shading on the flowers and darker shading/fill-in on the greenery.

Turns out tattoos don't really hurt - and I had a great location for low pain. The first 2.5 hours were a breeze. SIL and I were happily chatting away while artist worked and preferred to stay largely silent for focus. The last 15 minutes (2 hrs 45 min total) were rough as final shading was being done over areas that were hot. I knew we were almost done and was getting antsy.

If we didn't have a blizzard I would have suggested SIL hang out more, but I wanted her to get home safely as it's snowing at a pretty intense rate, and every 30 minutes is a lot. She's home safe, I'm home safe, and I'm enjoying a glass of wine before making some dinner and maybe/hopefully playing those video games.

Today I'm really good. I love the work that was done. I feel sexy, like this tattoo was meant to be part of my body. It complements my curves and is feminine while still being a sizable (therefore kinda bad @$$) tattoo. I've shared so many photos via text to friends. I'm excited for it to fully heal and watch it settle.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2884747
02/09/20 10:53 PM
02/09/20 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by FlySolo
You never talk about XW anymore and I guess this is partly because she is no longer a presence in your life (something you feared for a long time) and nor do you need her to be. You were forced to cross that bridge (she moved away) and found that there was nothing to fear.


FS posted this on her thread yesterday (feels like 4 days ago) and it has been turning around in my head since then. I didn't want to hijack, so I'm addressing it here on my own thread.

First of all, she's totally correct. Absolutely. I've said as much in past posts. But there's something else there, and that's what I'm trying to to suss out. Why did this catch my eye and make me cock my head? I can't figure out exactly what it was that FS touched on that made me pause.

In my real life, I intentionally mention XW's name here or there. In passing, nothing in depth. "Oh yes, XW and I visited that place once a few years ago". I do this in a conscious effort to not sweep our 10 year history under the rug. To prove that it existed, that it mattered. To remind my own brain to not rewrite history. To make my family feel I don't hate her, because I don't want them to. I don't want to talk about her in those moments, but I figure the best thing to do is just not ignore her, and mention her name in passing. It comes out casual and calm, but in my mind it is still forced.

I should mention too that I never told my family that she had an affair. I have kept that private and told only a couple of friends. Not even my best friend though. In the event that XW ever comes back into my life that is my issue to deal with - not theirs.

I don't want to talk about her because I don't want to admit or think about where she is in her life. With my limited knowledge and a whole lot of speculation (and zero sleuthing now) I believe she is engaged to OW - or at least with her, and her kids - working a job in a different town. Who knows what else is true or not true or happening or not happening. I honestly don't know, so in some ways I'm frozen in this space where the only thing I "know" (think I know) is the last bit of information I had, perhaps 5-6 months ago. That is the perpetual state of being in my mind. I couldn't tell you if she is genuinely in a good place in her life or still struggling with some things she struggled with while we were together. I have no idea.

There are a lot of flashbacks that happen when I think about OW. About XW denying denying denying that anything was happening. A lot of specifics I don't want to relive and write here.

So when I think about XW I try to only think about the good parts with the first 9 years - but I also don't have rose colored glasses and think back to the really great parts. Mostly I just remember the mundane, and those parts that I really loved. I refuse to accept that last year as our story. Because if I ever see her again I don't want to be angry, though I am. I don't want to only think that we ever had bad times. I think about her quite often. Sometimes I imagine her walking through the front door of my apartment and wonder what emotions I would feel. Mostly anger, and a desire to keep her out of my space. She doesn't belong here and this is only Yail's life in these walls. She doesn't get to come into my space if I can't know hers.

I'm different around women in my life now. I have a couple of lesbian friends that while they aren't BFFs the fact that they're queer means something a little extra to me. My closest friends I'm different with. I insist on talking about those taboo subjects that were never discussed in the pre-separation Yail: finances, relationships, sex life (solo and/or partnered), divorce, life plans, family issues. I want only authentic communication about real life, because real life slapped me in the face and I want to face it head-on, not dance around it. I know now that everyone has these issues behind closed doors, and I want them to feel that my door is always open.

I don't know if I got anywhere in this post. I just feel this need to explore it, and to think openly about why I don't talk about XW.

It is still self-preservation which lives alongside some genuine moving-on. Even after all the boxes are checked, and our D is final and we have each chosen the life to live solo - I still feel she is mine. She is still my W, my partner, and probably the person who can hurt me more than anyone else in life. And even while I try to not speculate or snoop or make any assumptions about where she is in her life - the one thing I do know deep down is that she shut the door between us (in part) for me. She did it so I could move on and heal in my own time and in my own way without additional hurt from her choices. Also for her, but I am sure some of it is also for me. That part I am quite certain of.



Last edited by Yail; 02/09/20 10:54 PM.
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2885121
02/12/20 04:04 AM
02/12/20 04:04 AM
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Posts: 641
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Yail Offline OP
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Ahhhh a lovely Tuesday. It was BFF's bday last week, and tonight we celebrated at my apartment with a special dinner.

She said she'd like a cheese board, so that's what I did. BFF loves food as much as I do. 4 local high end cheeses (brie, bleu, manchego, goat). Prosciutto, salami, maple pecans, mixed olives, fresh (homemade today by Yail) garlic naan, dates, crackers, grapes. A very nice Californian red blend for wine.

So a couple of hours on the couch nibbling away with wine and snacks. Then we had the beef bourguignon (crock-pot version) I had made, with horseradish mashed potatoes and green beans.

In a not-so-humble moment I'd like to just say that I am an excellent cook and quite proud of myself. Future dates will be charmed AF by my kitchen prowess.

We were stuffed by 9PM when she left.

So much good conversation though. About life and relationships, and how we feel when they end. The process we go through. How we approach relationships when we are in them, especially after a D or break-up. What are our non-negotiables in a new R?. Talks about sex drive and being women, talks about being straight vs gay (BFF is straight). Talks about where I see myself romantically in 2 years or 5 years. Talks about BFF and her partner and how they are growing in their relationship, and the wonders of their parenthood.

Hysterical laughing as we discussed lesbian sex vs straight sex (the laughter was around my fears of getting back into dating, that I am somehow "out of touch" (no pun) with queer dating) and what a dialogue around safe-sex means for different folks. BFF has been partnered for a long time so has the LTR mentality, whereas I am just emerging from that mentality and find myself in new territory.

Lots of laughing about my work-crush and how insanely inappropriate it is, and how funny it is that it's this great secret that no one knows for professional reasons. But shhhhhh don't tell anyone - my work crush is a hottie with a killer smile and a vibe that [censored] you in. she's a dangerous woman that one. Good thing I'm on to her game, and can (mostly) stay away.

Talks about family, and class, and education, and just all around LIFE. It was soul-feeding, and I am feeling so appreciative for this night.

I should put the Port away. It is, in fact, only Wednesday tomorrow - I should probably go to bed and prepare for work in the AM. But I'd much rather stay here on the boards and chill with you folks.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2885122
02/12/20 04:07 AM
02/12/20 04:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
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Yail Offline OP
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^^^ Best censor ever^^^


Clearly we can not ever discuss vacuuming on the forum, or we would also be censored.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2885127
02/12/20 04:40 AM
02/12/20 04:40 AM
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may22 Offline
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mmmmmm. Can you post your naan recipe? I have been thinking about it ever since a few weeks ago you mentioned maybe baking some! That all sounds soooo amazing. Do you live near a Costco? Mine is carrying this amazing truffled pate and incredibly priced chacuterie and cheeses... definitely recommend checking it out if you live near one.

That sounds like the perfect evening with your BFF. I'm so glad for you. One question -- did you and your BFF always talk so openly about sex? or is just since you've been more in touch with this side of yourself? One of my best friends came over for dinner last night too (although I hadn't been shopping in awhile so had to make do with a not-so-great instapot chicken cacciatore) and we talked about how weird it was that so many people never talk about sex or infidelity or any of these important human experiences with their friends because... we don't know. But she was divorced about three years ago and thought she didn't like sex... and now realizes no, she just didn't like sex with her selfish husband. I have lived quite vicariously through her adventures this past year and I love that these are things we can finally talk about. Anyway, was just wondering if you'd always had those kind of convos with your BFF or if it was something new.

Originally Posted by Yail
Clearly we can not ever discuss vacuuming on the forum, or we would also be censored.

haha.... KG (I think it was KG) and I did share our love for our respective cordless vacuums.

If my kids were in bed I'd open a bottle of something special and join you here... but I really should be spending time with them and not on my computer. Enjoy your evening... somehow, your posts always really boost my mood. Thank you.


Me (44) H (40)
M:12 T:16
D7 and D9
BD1 ILYB: April 2019
BD2 H told me about EA: August 2019 (started Jan 2019)
BD3 Just kidding!! Been a PA for the past two years!! (Dec 2019)
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2885334
02/13/20 12:45 AM
02/13/20 12:45 AM
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Posts: 641
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Yail Offline OP
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May, the naan is from a blog called "Gimme Some Oven". I'm obsessed with it. I don't have a Costco membership, but sometimes give my mom a call for critical bulk items (like coffee!) and we go together. Generally no need for Costco when it's just me solo, tbh.

So to answer your question - no. BFF and I did not always talk so openly about sex. It wasn't blatantly taboo, but I do feel that when partnered I had this strong feeling that talking about my own sexuality or experiences implied I was referring to me and my partner. And their privacy is something that is important to me - I'm not the type to chat about specifics from my real life and name names. As open as I am that's a door that I prefer to remain shut between me and the person I'm (hypothetically) sleeping with.

But now that I'm solo AND going through this reevaluation I feel the need to talk about it. Because I'm really learning a lot more solo than I ever learned when partnered. And to be fair, any issues that existed between XW and I were primarily centered around me being uncommunicative and exhibiting low desire traits. It wasn't our only barrier, but it's the one I can own and learn the most from.

Also, for me the learning period I'm going through is about both my sexual preferences (specifics of what works/doesn't work for me, and how to learn to use my words to communicate that) and also my sexual identity. I still continue to identify as a lesbian. But I did take some time to just ask myself the question - to check in with myself - on whether even that had changed in the last 10 years. It hasn't, but I'm pretty pleased that I didn't shy away from that question on identity.

More to the point, I have embraced my identity as a Femme. How I present myself within my gender and how that relates to my sexuality has been empowering for me. This identity may change over time - it has before - but it's a space I feel whole in and that I am currently loving.

I think the real reason for opening up about this topic is that after a D one has a general "Eff it" attitude. Nothing compares to the pain and work it takes to get through a separation and D. Everything else is unimportant. So I can boldly talk about this subject - or any subject - with zero fear of judgement because I just don't care. The desire to take up space after something so emotionally traumatic is real, and I don't really care to make others feel comfortable in the name of polite conversation.

Luckily our true friends don't buy into that either, and will gladly sip wine and talk about all fun thoughts :-D

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2885343
02/13/20 01:38 AM
02/13/20 01:38 AM
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may22 Offline
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Really interesting, Yail. Thanks for sharing. I have also had way more interesting and detailed conversations with friends (partnered and not) about sex, though since H and I weren't having any I didn't have to share any specific details except that the store was currently closed for me. I just find it so interesting that this is something that has so much depth and meaning within the human experience and yet we pretend it isn't happening even with our closest friends. Many of us (me included, sounds like you too) don't even talk about it to our partners, the one person we SHOULD be talking about it with more than anyone!

And the idea that if the stats are correct and 50-75 percent of couples or whatever experience infidelity, yet those of us going through it may not even share the basic facts with our closest friends and family (to protect ourselves? our partners? others' views of us? the possibility of future R?) just makes me feel so sad, like we are all these little lonely islands going through the most difficult things in the world and can't talk to anyone about it. I feel really terrible about my mom, who keeps texting me and KNOWS something is wrong and yet I can't say anything because she has a complicated R with my H as it is and would never, ever forgive him ever. And I don't want the future to be dictated by that dynamic if we stay together.

At the same time, it shows me how beautiful this forum is, because we are here for each other and can share our experiences and hurt and be as specific and long-winded as we need to be. (Well, maybe that is just me ;)) Anyway, I'm really glad you were able to reevaluate your own identity as a sexual being and embrace your Femme side. Plus, I am loving you in your lipstick and fancy shoes. The under the desk thing is real. Mine are in a big ridiculous pile, I don't even know how many pairs I have under there. It was pretty embarrassing the last time I changed jobs and needed more than one box for my work shoes.

Re Costco... the next time you go with your mom take a walk down aisles other than coffee. There are a lot of specialty items that keep a long long time that are like one thousand times cheaper than at the regular store, like a huge jar of kalamata olives for $10, or packages of cured meats that have expiration dates three months from now. Mine also has a huge wine selection, not sure if that is the case in every state... but I think you might find you can feed your inner foodie there at a really good price without needing to feed a whole huge family at once.


Me (44) H (40)
M:12 T:16
D7 and D9
BD1 ILYB: April 2019
BD2 H told me about EA: August 2019 (started Jan 2019)
BD3 Just kidding!! Been a PA for the past two years!! (Dec 2019)
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2885353
02/13/20 01:57 AM
02/13/20 01:57 AM
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Yail Offline OP
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Originally Posted by may22
just makes me feel so sad, like we are all these little lonely islands going through the most difficult things in the world and can't talk to anyone about it.


This really resonated with me today.

So for my work place we have a shuttle from the parking area to the work area. I was on the shuttle with a coworker who I know casually, I've worked with her a little on some projects. If I'm honest, historically she has been a bit short and stand-offish. Not a warm fuzzy person.

Over the past few months I've noticed a change in her demeanor, she has softened, perhaps her shoulders have unclenched, her face has relaxed into less of a tense pose. She seemed more willing to say hi to people.

Today on the shuttle I was speaking with her and another coworker and she informed us that she and her H of 30 years (who ALSO WORKS THERE) have separated. She indicated he is an @$$, so my guess is that there may be infidelity in the situation.

I told her I was recently divorced. We locked eyes and it was like we had never seen each other before. Hers were watery, I think mine were too. We just kind of nodded. It was an instant bonding moment.

All I could offer her today was where my secret hiding spot was when I needed it. A place that very few people can enter, and a place she can spend 20 minutes not being "on" or available to coworkers and can just sit in silence. That was helpful to me, so I told her where the secret place was. She seemed genuinely grateful for something so simple.

So, yes. We are all alone in this great human experiment. But also, we are different after we go through these sitches. And it's an oddly unifying human experience. When I was going through the worst of it I had two coworkers truly SEE me and recognize my pain because they had also gone through that pain. As awful as that is, it was more helpful than the endless platitudes or comforting words coming from anyone else who hadn't been there before.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2885699
02/14/20 08:05 PM
02/14/20 08:05 PM
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Hi Yail,

Was thinking of you this morning as I put a lamb roast in my slow cooker and wondered if it would compare at all to your feast earlier this week... was regretting not getting beef smile

It is a gift that you can share a moment like that with another person. We are alone, sometimes, but sometimes you reach across and there is a bridge and a connection and I think that is part of the human experience too, how soul-filling that can be. It was really nice of you to offer that secret space to your colleague. I hope she gets some good use out of it.

Hoping you're lipsticked and high heeled up today, Yail! Sending love.


Me (44) H (40)
M:12 T:16
D7 and D9
BD1 ILYB: April 2019
BD2 H told me about EA: August 2019 (started Jan 2019)
BD3 Just kidding!! Been a PA for the past two years!! (Dec 2019)
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2885748
02/15/20 01:18 AM
02/15/20 01:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 641
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Yail Offline OP
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OMG I love lamb. I'm jealous. I've never done a stew, I should keep that in mind. Just this morning I was looking up some goat recipes, considering whether I might go to the local halal butcher and see if I might try a goat roast in spring. Perhaps Easter, which is one of my favorite food holidays. It's all about spring and newness and lots and lots of herbs. I bet my family would be surprised and probably really like it.


******

I had been so tired after my flu, and now I'm getting my groove back. I'm waiting for the cold snap to pass by because I could do with a few walks around the neighborhood for some energy but I'm not braving these windchills. I'm still doing my intense meal planning to keep my grocery budget at a super low price point - hovering around the $150/month point these days (including about $35 of that being greens and lettuces for the rabbit alone). I'm considering starting a blog about my Homesteading dreams, and as part of it tracking my groceries and how I use them, and use every part in as many iterations as I can come up with (ie a Roast chicken turns into roast chicken meal, leftovers for two meals, quesadillas for one meal, avgolemono soup with the homemade chicken stock and remainder of the meat - 4 more meals). Homemade yogurt is crazy cheap, as is my weekly oatmeal bakes.

It seems a productive place to spend my energy and practice my web programming skills. In May I'll finally have my web programming certificate. Then comes the MBA. I'm dreading this final PHP class I have coming up.

Up this week in the kitchen: breaded lemon pork chops with tumeric rice and veggies, mushroom risotto, pork stir fry, beef stew (leftovers!), and a mac and cheese. Usually a breakfast sandwich thrown in there for the night I just have zero desire to cook anything.

In other news, the tat is healing nicely. It's definitely in the itchy phase and is driving me a tiny bit crazy as I try to not touch it at all. But it's starting to look a tiny bit cloudy which is to be expected before it brightens and tightens up after some skin regeneration. It's fascinating for me to watch. I measured it and it's actually closer to 5'' x 9''. It's perfect. I'm so in love. I'm not someone who loves to parade around in a bathing suit in summer (I usually have WAY too many layers on!) but this summer I think I'll be pretty darned proud to show it off and probably get a few double takes and comments. It's that good. Now I just need a new suit to be equally bad @$$ - perhaps a black two piece with gold hardware? Or something deep maroon/wine colored. Online shopping time.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2885765
02/15/20 03:29 AM
02/15/20 03:29 AM
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wayfarer Offline
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You seriously give me goals for what life is going to look like if/when he goes. I love all your food stuff. Iím a big cooker. Less so with the baking. And I love the life youíre building for yourself. Iíve never lived alone in my life, ever. I get scared sometimes but creeping on your threads has given me so much hope about the quiet sweet life I could be looking forward too.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2885769
02/15/20 03:46 AM
02/15/20 03:46 AM
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Posts: 641
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Yail Offline OP
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Creep away, my dear.

Quiet and sweet. I like that! I think it's a nice description of my life on most days.

And some days it's not, but I love those days too. Some days I ramp up my feeling like a bad MF. I love that feeling.

and wayfarer - these are not goals for when he goes. If you are truly interested in something like making some food goals, why can't you do them now? Really. It's true life will be different in a lot of ways if he goes. But the focusing on a project that you truly love can start any time, and boosts your confidence.

There are two quotes I've mentioned here in my threadnthat really drive me. They are:

"We have to create. It is the only thing louder than destruction" - A. Gibson (spoken word poet)
"The opposite of War isn't Peace. It's creation" - RENT

To fight against the destruction in your life you have to BUILD. Don't focus on the walls that are falling down - let them. Focus on making something else unrelated to that wall. Truly, it is what kept me calm and sane. Find art in your life.

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2885772
02/15/20 04:28 AM
02/15/20 04:28 AM
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wayfarer Offline
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I stopped cooking when I discovered the EA. I saw a psychic around the time it shifted to a PA. She told me to get my a$$ back in the kitchen. I have. I let him kill a part of me and decided after I saw the psychic that I wasnít going to let that happen. That my craft even if deep down it was love for me to feed my family that I was going to keep on loving even if he stopped. I wonít let him take any more than he has. Iím taking all of myself back for me if he doesnít want me including my cooking wink

Last edited by wayfarer; 02/15/20 04:29 AM.
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2885773
02/15/20 04:31 AM
02/15/20 04:31 AM
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Posts: 1,466
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DejaVu6 Offline
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Amazing advice my friend. (((HUGS)))


Me 51
H 46
B/G Twins 11
SD19
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2885779
02/15/20 05:49 AM
02/15/20 05:49 AM
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wooba Offline
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I really like that advice Yail, build to fight against destruction.

I think that is life, when you are not moving forward you are not just staying in the same place. You actually move backwards. May we all strive to be better versions of ourselves!


W(me):40
H:45
M:15
BD: Sep 2019

Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2885832
02/16/20 01:19 AM
02/16/20 01:19 AM
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Posts: 203
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TJT Offline
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*wave* *wave* *wave*

Catching up and I missed a ton in the middle but I've caught bits and pieces and now I jumped forward to here - just in time to agree and be equally inspired by the creation > destruction quote. (((HUGS)))

Since I have missed so much (sorry I'm not catching up more before replying, I'm just too eager to say hi) I can't exactly tell where you are emotionally but I do see you are doing SO much for yourself and I hope you are genuinely enjoying that. I know for me, especially when stuff was really hard, even the things you normally enjoy seem like chores or sure, you like it but you'd rather be liking it with someone, etc. etc. (actually, that last one is something I still struggle with).

You definitely seem like you are finding more of yourself and I am happy to see that.


H:39 W:30
M:4 T:9

05/2018: H says "ILYBNILWY", BD
07/2018: Discovered A, confronted
09/2018: PA + other details emerge; H moved out
Re: We interrupt your normally scheduled life... [Re: Yail] #2885837
02/16/20 02:18 AM
02/16/20 02:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 641
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Yail Offline OP
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Yail  Offline OP
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Holy wow! TJT, where've you been?

I'll have to start a new thread just so we can catch-up!

gosh, it has been so long I don't remember when we last spoke. Last spring/summer? Yes, the short version is this: I'm officially D (official date was just last month, but we've been truly separated for so long now), XW and I don't communicate. The house was sold, along with that action W filed so that financial settlement with the house would be wrapped up as part of the D. It was an amicable D, and we communicated only about logistics. That doesn't mean it was easy. I had anxiety every time I heard from her or the L, and I spent a long time grieving the fact that I needed to continue to let her go. She quietly stepped into the background. I have some assumptions about her life based on old information but I'm not sure it matters because I just as easily be right as I could be wrong.

My life itself is good. I have a nice (for now) apartment in my city that is very convenient. I am LOVING my job. I am growing in my job - especially socially. I'm really trying to be a social person and making new contacts and peers and friends. Focusing on the friend piece, as I have always been a small, tight knit circle kind of person. Slowly but surely making headway there.

Lots of cooking and focusing on homesteading practices. I need to find a farming adventure in the near future so I can learn more in that realm (also it's a cheaper way to vacation). My struggles these days are just being on a single earner household. Other than that, life is good.

Not actively looking to date yet, but slowly becoming more open to it. Not pushing myself, as I'd rather use my free time for other activities that push me into my new future. In short - I'm working it out. I'm building it. And I'm still working on peacefully and lovingly letting XW go, despite some anger and grief that still rears its Hydra heads.

And you? How are YOU? Are you D? Do you have contact with your WAS? What is your focus these days?

If it's easier for you to post in your own thread I'll keep an eye out for it.

Time for a new thread. Here we go:



This IS your normally scheduled life

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